Posts:
799
Registered:
Mar 21, 2006
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Can Someone Speculate Why SOME MBPs Are Cooler After Updates?
Posted:
Apr 14, 2006 7:41 PM
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Why are some better and others (like mine) still very hot even after the same software and firmware updates?
Thanks ... Ken
MacBook Pro (s/N 8610; 2.16) 100Gig 5400
Mac OS X (10.4.6)
Also own G5 Dual 2.5
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Posts:
209
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Nov 16, 2005
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Re: Can Someone Speculate Why SOME MBPs Are Cooler After Updates?
Posted:
Apr 14, 2006 8:03 PM
in response to: sgginc
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I have discovered that the mirror widget hack was making my machine run very hot. If you are using this hack to solve your "whine" do a little test. Try rebooting and running your system with the whine. I think you'll find it runs noticeably cooler.
MacBook Pro 1.83, eMac 800 MHz
Mac OS X (10.4.5)
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Posts:
169
Registered:
Mar 22, 2006
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Re: Can Someone Speculate Why SOME MBPs Are Cooler After Updates?
Posted:
Apr 14, 2006 8:09 PM
in response to: sgginc
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I think it might be something to do with the planets lining up right. This afternoon, with the thing sitting on my desk in a rather cool office, it was hotter then hall, just surfing the net and what not. Now, on my lap, doing the same thing, its just fine, nice and cool.
blueberry ibook, G3 500, 800, G4 800, 20" iMac, MBP 1.83
Mac OS X (10.4.5)
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799
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Mar 21, 2006
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Re: Can Someone Speculate Why SOME MBPs Are Cooler After Updates?
Posted:
Apr 14, 2006 8:09 PM
in response to: vinbot
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I have no whine just a VERY hot machine.
Some report that after the 10.4.6 update theirs was cooler and others got cooler after the FW update. And yet others report cooler machines after both updates only.
Are not the 0s and 1s the same in my machine (which remains uncomfortably hot) as those that got cooler. Especially if this is a SW issue.
Thanks ... Ken
MacBook Pro (s/N 8610; 2.16) 100Gig 5400
Mac OS X (10.4.6)
Also own G5 Dual 2.5
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Posts:
68
Registered:
Jan 16, 2005
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Re: Can Someone Speculate Why SOME MBPs Are Cooler After Updates?
Posted:
Apr 15, 2006 8:09 AM
in response to: sgginc
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Solved
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Couple of things: (1) If the back of the MBP is elevated there seems to be better air flow, thereby enhancing the cooling effect of the fans, whereas when the MBP is on a desk, some heat may reflect back--essentially same issue with the Powerbook G4.
(2) More importantly, different heat performance likely have something to do with variations in build quality, let me explain. If you look at the Ifixit site, they have a great picture of the logic board and the CPU, GPU and chipset sitting all in a row along the back of the laptop. These chips are cooled by contact with a heat pipe and the heat flows along the pipe out to the fans and air duct. This allows the laptop to be thinner, but does not provide direct cooling on the chip.
Well, I recently opened my MBP down to the logic board to take a look at these chips and what did I find....**** poor application of the thermal compound. There appear to have been some heat damage in the surrounding silicone wafer as well (a bit of a bubbling up)
There was tons of excess compound leaking out aroung the silicone border of all three chips and very little on the chips themselves. So, and this is not for the faint of heart or those wishing to hold on to their warranties (and don't say I didn't warn you) I cleaned all the gunk off until I had the chips and surrounding surfaces completely clean and shiny (some recommend using some form of alcohol to clean off the chips, but I prefer not to use potentially caustic liquids near my MBP--besides, the stuff wipes off fairly easily). Then, I replaced the thermal compound with sparing quantities of Artic Silver 5. Indeed, if you look at the directions for AS5, a small drop is sufficient.
Since then , and its been only a couple of days, my MBP is very cool to the touch. The AS5 renders the heat transfer process between chip and heat pipe more efficient. Note, that it takes a couple of cycles for AS5 to reach full effectiveness. According to the instructions a cycle is heating the chip and AS5 to highest temperature from normal use, and cooling when the computer is turned off.
Disclaimer: As I hardly ever keep a computer for more than a year, I don't get Apple Care (yes, expensive hobby but ther are worse.) so I am not concerned about the warranty. If that's not your bag, don't do it.
Also, this will likely not be a problem with all MBPs, but more a quality control with some. On balance, I don't have the whine or any other issues others have identified and this was a minor fix.
Imac G5 20 & Powerbook G4 15
Mac OS X (10.3.8)
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Posts:
328
Registered:
May 28, 2005
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Re: Can Someone Speculate Why SOME MBPs Are Cooler After Updates?
Posted:
Apr 15, 2006 9:17 AM
in response to: Jean-Cyril
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Very nice AS5 ( I was thinking of doing this myself)
Question:
Is the heat sink adjustable? (Is the gap between the heat sink and cpu easily adjustable?)
It's not clear from the fixit site if you can self adjust this part ( I don't see were the heat sink height can be adjusted to allow for different thermal grease layer thickness as it looks like they used thermal pads which have a different clearance than the AS5 type grease.
Normally there are a set of screws that you adjust in a rotation pattern (like lug nuts on a car wheel)
Note: as this adventurous fellow has said you VOID your warranty if you do this.
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Posts:
68
Registered:
Jan 16, 2005
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Re: Can Someone Speculate Why SOME MBPs Are Cooler After Updates?
Posted:
Apr 15, 2006 9:24 AM
in response to: mac wison
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I did not notice that the spacing was adjustable. Indeed, if you look at the pictures on Ifix it, there are spacers attached to the heat sink and to which the logic board is fastened. So it does not seem that you could adjust the height. Note that the pictures showed some smearing of the thermal compound, but mine was much worse.
MBP 2.0, 2GB RAM, 100MB HD, 7200 RPM
Mac OS X (10.4.6)
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Posts:
68
Registered:
Jan 16, 2005
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Re: Can Someone Speculate Why SOME MBPs Are Cooler After Updates?
Posted:
Apr 15, 2006 9:25 AM
in response to: mac wison
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Definitely NOT thermal pads, which might have made more sense.
MBP 2.0, 2GB RAM, 100MB HD, 7200 RPM
Mac OS X (10.4.6)
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Posts:
259
Registered:
Oct 23, 2005
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Re: Can Someone Speculate Why SOME MBPs Are Cooler After Updates?
Posted:
Apr 15, 2006 9:30 AM
in response to: mac wison
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Are you absolutely SURE you void your warranty by doing this? From my interpretation, it sounded like Apple's warranty was basically "If you open it up yourself, and break something, you're on your own. But if you don't break anything, we won't hate you for opening the case yourself."
Apple's warranty page: http://www.apple.com/legal/warranty/hardware.html
And the relevant portion...
"This warranty does not apply: ... (d) to damage caused by service (including upgrades and expansions) performed by anyone who is not a representative of Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider; (e) to a product or part that has been modified to significantly alter functionality or capability without the written permission of Apple;"
I don't think adding better thermal compound would count as "significantly altering functionality"...and it doesn't seem to say anything about "if you open your case, your warranty is void" like some other evil computer manufacturers...
Mac mini 1.42GHz
Mac OS X (10.4.6)
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Posts:
328
Registered:
May 28, 2005
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Re: Can Someone Speculate Why SOME MBPs Are Cooler After Updates?
Posted:
Apr 15, 2006 9:31 AM
in response to: Jean-Cyril
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So your saying on yours there was not square pads but just thermal grease?
As on the fixit site I could swear I noticed a squarish thermal layer
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Posts:
1,226
Registered:
Feb 23, 2006
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Re: Can Someone Speculate Why SOME MBPs Are Cooler After Updates?
Posted:
Apr 15, 2006 9:32 AM
in response to: Jean-Cyril
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Improving thermal conductivity between the source, primarily the CPU, ICH, MCH and GPU chips, and the external environment will make the outside of the case hotter, not cooler. If you actually succeeded in making your MacBook cooler, you've probably shortened its life by raising the temperature at the source of the heat, the semiconductor junctions in the key chips.
Randall Schulz
iMac 20" Core Duo; MacBook Pro
Mac OS X (10.4.6)
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328
Registered:
May 28, 2005
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Re: Can Someone Speculate Why SOME MBPs Are Cooler After Updates?
Posted:
Apr 15, 2006 9:36 AM
in response to: RandyS
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I see what your saying but it's not all that clear.
If you improve contact area you improve the efficiency of the whole system including the fans.
The notoebook will OVERALL feel cooler (the bottom may be a little hotter -maybe) and it could greatly extend it's life span if the contact was poor to begin with.
As a matter of fact, if the contact is bad you could fry your notebook,( especially these ones)
But I think that it's safe to assume that the way these are put together there is probably a good contact since there's apparently no spacers to be adjusted.(in other woulds all most all of them are okay)
So unless yours is really to hot to touch, it's probably running normally; that is, very hot.
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Posts:
68
Registered:
Jan 16, 2005
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Re: Can Someone Speculate Why SOME MBPs Are Cooler After Updates?
Posted:
Apr 15, 2006 9:42 AM
in response to: RandyS
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I disagree. The reason heat is building up on the top of the laptop is because it was not being channeled along the pipes to the fan and out the back. Indeed, if your assessment was correct, then I would not have had the damage to the silicon that I witnessed. The heat has to go somewhere, and providing a more efficient pathway to the pipe means it goes out where it was designed to go.
I would agree that the bottom of your laptop would be warm, but not the top and at the temperatures that I experienced. I've built enough PCs and worked on enough laptops to know whereof I speak. As I said initially, this may not be the case with all the laptops with heat issues, but the evidence of sloppy application in mine was quite plain.
MBP 2.0, 2GB RAM, 100MB HD, 7200 RPM
Mac OS X (10.4.6)
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Posts:
68
Registered:
Jan 16, 2005
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Re: Can Someone Speculate Why SOME MBPs Are Cooler After Updates?
Posted:
Apr 15, 2006 9:47 AM
in response to: mac wison
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Mac,
You are absolutely correct. The bottom is warm but not HOT. The top is lukewarm and this is after the laptop has been running on my table top instead of my Ilap for three hours. Indeed, I can almost locate the heat pipe by running my hand under the laptop and feeling which part is warmer than the other. As I would expect, the leading edges of the fan exhaust seem warmest.
MBP 2.0, 2GB RAM, 100MB HD, 7200 RPM
Mac OS X (10.4.6)
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Posts:
328
Registered:
May 28, 2005
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Re: Can Someone Speculate Why SOME MBPs Are Cooler After Updates?
Posted:
Apr 15, 2006 9:48 AM
in response to: Jean-Cyril
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I would like to see a widget from apple that would allow for more temp adjustments
I would control fans etc.
But since Apple doesn't read these threads I'm just wasting my time.
But really, it would be an improvement over endless heat threads ( really is getting sad)
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