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Nov 7, 2009 9:13 PM
by: Bob Timmons
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5
From:
Capitola, CA
Registered:
Sep 26, 2004
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Wiring Two AEBSs to Improve Home Network Coverage?
Posted:
Nov 3, 2009 12:53 PM
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I've been tearing my hair out at home over our spotty network, and I'm hoping someone might have some sage wisdom.
I have two Airport Extremes (802.11n) and an Airport Express (802.11n). Downstairs, one Extreme (we'll call it AEBS1) is connected to our cable modem, and creating a wireless network. Upstairs, in my wife's office, a second Airport Extreme (AEBS2) is wirelessly connected to (spotty connection), and extending, the network being created by AEBS1. The Airport Express is upstairs, sort of halfway between the two, extending the network as well. The goal was to provide a reliable wireless signal to my wife's office -- I was hoping that the Express would fill the gap between the two AEBSs, since AEBS2 doesn't seem to reliably connect to AEBS1 without the Express (maybe our walls and floor are made of lead). So...
(Cable Modem) -wire-> (AEBS1) - - wireless - - (Express) - - wireless - - (AEBS2)
But even this just doesn't provide a very good signal to my wife's office. She'll have full bars most of the time (sitting right next to AEBS2), but bandwidth is really sluggish (compared to our 21Mb connection), and sometimes not there at all.
So last night I brought home a set of Netgear Powerline adapters. My thought was that if I could hard-wire AEBS1 and AEBS2, hopefully that would speed up the wireless network upstairs. I plugged the downstairs adapter into an open LAN port on AEBS1, and the upstairs adapter into the WAN port of AEBS2. I didn't change any of the settings on either AEBS, and unplugged the Extreme to make sure it wasn't adding any additional wireless help. And... chaos. Okay, not chaos, but certainly not better connectivity. I got an occasional blip of bandwidth (could have just been the two AEBSs talking to each other wirelessly), and I couldn't even use Airport Utility to see either station while they were plugged into the adapters. Once I unplugged them, they returned to their (spotty coverage-d) selves. I tested the adapters by connecting AEBS1 to our DVR, and that worked without a hitch, so I'm pretty sure the adapters themselves are fine.
Whew. Bottom line: would wiring the two stations together help my situation? If so, I obviously did something wrong.  If this doesn't work, I'm running out of options. I've considered a Hawking network repeater, or going back to tin cans and string, maybe.
MacBook, MacBook Pro, Old G5 Tower, WinXP, etc.
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3,433
From:
Texas
Registered:
Dec 1, 2008
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Re: Wiring Two AEBSs to Improve Home Network Coverage?
Posted:
Nov 3, 2009 1:04 PM
in response to: Scott Garsed-Do...
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Helpful
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Welcome to the discussions!
Couple of thoughts:
Think of Apple's "extend a wireless network" feature as if the main router were the hub of a wheel and the "remotes" were at the end of each spoke. There is nothing to be gained by positioning the Express at the mid point, as it cannot act as a "relay" from the main to the remote.
Try using the wireless network first without the Express since it does not help unless it is positioned at the end of another "spoke" in another area of the house.
Are you trying to use 5 GHz? This signal is absorbed by walls, ceilings and any obstructions much more quickly than 2.4 GHz signals. Unless you have close to "line-of-sight" between your main router and the remote router, it's likely that 2.4 GHz will perform much better for you.
Your idea to use ethernet is a good one. But, the remote device will need to be reconfigured to "create a wireless network". The "extend a wireless network" setting is only for wireless, not for an ethernet connection between the routers. That probably explains the problem when you tried this. Post back if you need more info on this.
MacBook Pro, iMac
Mac OS X (10.5.8)
Time Capsule, AirPort Express, iPhone
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Posts:
5
From:
Capitola, CA
Registered:
Sep 26, 2004
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Re: Wiring Two AEBSs to Improve Home Network Coverage?
Posted:
Nov 3, 2009 1:45 PM
in response to: Bob Timmons
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Thanks for the info, Bob. I'll tweak a few things tonight when I get home and see if the situation improves. 
So, just to confirm, if I connected both AEBSs via Powerline-enabled Ethernet, I'd actually be creating two separate wireless networks, correct? One from each AEBS?
MacBook, MacBook Pro, Old G5 Tower, WinXP, etc.
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Posts:
3,433
From:
Texas
Registered:
Dec 1, 2008
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Re: Wiring Two AEBSs to Improve Home Network Coverage?
Posted:
Nov 3, 2009 2:01 PM
in response to: Scott Garsed-Do...
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Helpful
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"So, just to confirm, if I connected both AEBSs via Powerline-enabled Ethernet, I'd actually be creating two separate wireless networks, correct? One from each AEBS?"
You will use the ethernet adapters to come out of one of the LAN ports on your main router and other adapter will plug into the WAN port on the remote router.
You have two options: One is to create two separate networks which would require you to log into each separately, or second option, create what is known as a "roaming" network. I suggest "roaming" for ease of use as you will not need to do anything if you move around the house with your laptop. The entire network will function as one entity.
You will configure the remote router using AirPort Utility and make these changes when you click Manual Setup and then click the Wireless tab below the icons.
Wireless Mode: set to "Create a wireless network:
Wireless Network Name: exact same name that your main router is creating
Radio Mode: Exact setting as the main router
Channel: Automatic
Wireless Security: Exact setting as the main router
Password: Exact setting as the main router
Click the Internet icon and check the Connection Sharing setting at the bottom. It must be set to "Off (Bridge Mode)".
Update and you should be all set. See how that works. We may need to manually change the Channel on both routers for a little better performance. Post back on your progress and then we can tackle that.
MacBook Pro, iMac
Mac OS X (10.5.8)
Time Capsule, AirPort Express, iPhone
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Posts:
5
From:
Capitola, CA
Registered:
Sep 26, 2004
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Re: Wiring Two AEBSs to Improve Home Network Coverage?
Posted:
Nov 3, 2009 8:04 PM
in response to: Bob Timmons
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Okay, everything's been reconfigured. Powerline adapters are back in the wall, connecting AEBS1 (LAN port) to AEBS2 (WAN port). AEBS2 configured to "Create a wireless network" with identical settings as AEBS1. AEBS1 set to share a public IP address (its previous setting), AEBS2 set to Bridge mode. Both stations set to channel 9. Both Radio Modes set to "802.11n (802.11b/g compatible)". Airport Express unplugged so it doesn't interfere.
Results: MacBook upstairs (about 4ft from AEBS2) connecting wirelessly getting very slow throughput -- about 2.5Mb. That may sound speedy to most folks, but if I take this laptop downstairs and sit next to AEBS1, I'll pull 20Mb. So something's still not quite kosher. I suppose there could be significant interference in the wiring, but enough to cut me down to 10% of bandwidth?
Hmm...
MacBook, MacBook Pro, Old G5 Tower, WinXP, etc.
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Posts:
8
From:
Hallandale FL
Registered:
Aug 10, 2009
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Re: Wiring Two AEBSs to Improve Home Network Coverage?
Posted:
Nov 5, 2009 7:27 PM
in response to: Scott Garsed-Do...
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I would also be interested in the solution to this problem, since I've been thinking about doing the same at home, but "extending" my network by wiring my AEBS to my AE, and creating a wireless network on both with the same exact settings.
Bob - is a roaming network a wireless network (two or more) with the same name and settings, from device 1 to device two with a cable, and device two in bridge mode?
Thanks!
MBP 2.33 GHz 3GB RAM 320 GB Hard Disk
Mac OS X (10.6.1)
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Posts:
3,433
From:
Texas
Registered:
Dec 1, 2008
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Re: Wiring Two AEBSs to Improve Home Network Coverage?
Posted:
Nov 5, 2009 9:05 PM
in response to: Scott Garsed-Do...
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OK, the next step is to set the wireless channels some distance apart on both AEBS devices to minimize any chance of interference between them. In other words, if the downstairs is set to Channel 1, set the upstairs to Channel 6 or higher. Ideally, you would use Channel 1 and Channel 11.
Part of the trick here is to also choose channels that other wireless networks near you are not using. So, you may need to experiment to find the best combination for speed. Just make sure that your two channels are at least 5 settings apart from each other.
Give that a try to see if that helps. You should be seeing roughly equal performance upstairs and downstairs as both routers are working to provide wireless coverage.
One other tip. On your laptop...Hold down the option key and click on the fan shaped wireless icon. You'll see the network name a series of letters and numbers just below the name. That is the MAC address of the device you are connecting to. If you are upstairs, you should be connecting to the upstairs router and vice versa.
MacBook Pro, iMac
Mac OS X (10.5.8)
Time Capsule, AirPort Express, iPhone
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Posts:
3,433
From:
Texas
Registered:
Dec 1, 2008
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Re: Wiring Two AEBSs to Improve Home Network Coverage?
Posted:
Nov 5, 2009 9:20 PM
in response to: jortuno
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Welcome to the discussion area, jortuno!
Bob - is a roaming network a wireless network (two or more) with the same name and settings, from device 1 to device two with a cable, and device two in bridge mode?"
Yes, correct. Connection Sharing on the "main" router must be setup to "Share a public IP address" and any other routers connected by ethernet must be setup with the Connection Sharing in "Off (bridge mode)"
The settings on the wireless network...name, radio mode, security and password must be identical with one important exception and that is the channel. Set the channels some distance apart...at least 5 channels...to minimize the chance of distortion. "Automatic" usually works "OK", but it is better to set them manually. Best choice would be channel 1 for one device and 11 for the other. But, you have to watch out for other channels in use with other networks around you. This usually requires some experimentation.
This is the way that commercial buildings are setup for wireless. It provides much greater bandwidth for the system than doing it by wireless alone. Highly recommended.
MacBook Pro, iMac
Mac OS X (10.5.8)
Time Capsule, AirPort Express, iPhone
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Posts:
5
From:
Capitola, CA
Registered:
Sep 26, 2004
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Re: Wiring Two AEBSs to Improve Home Network Coverage?
Posted:
Nov 6, 2009 7:38 AM
in response to: Bob Timmons
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OK, the next step is to set the wireless channels some distance apart on both AEBS devices to minimize any chance of interference between them. In other words, if the downstairs is set to Channel 1, set the upstairs to Channel 6 or higher. Ideally, you would use Channel 1 and Channel 11.
That may have been the problem I eventually ran into. I configured both wireless networks identically, and ended up getting lots of "connection timeout" errors while sitting right next to AEBS2. I had to finally create a second wireless network from AEBS2 just to get some stability. I'll revert them to identical networks, but adjust the spread of the channels, and see how that works.
MacBook, MacBook Pro, Old G5 Tower, WinXP, etc.
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Posts:
3,433
From:
Texas
Registered:
Dec 1, 2008
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Re: Wiring Two AEBSs to Improve Home Network Coverage?
Posted:
Nov 6, 2009 7:48 AM
in response to: Scott Garsed-Do...
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Thanks for your feedback. As I noted in a previous post on the thread, there may be some Channel adjustments needed. Normally, I've found that the "Automatic" setting usually works OK for this, but setting them manually is the best thing to do to minimize possible interference.
MacBook Pro, iMac
Mac OS X (10.5.8)
Time Capsule, AirPort Express, iPhone
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Posts:
3,433
From:
Texas
Registered:
Dec 1, 2008
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Re: Wiring Two AEBSs to Improve Home Network Coverage?
Posted:
Nov 6, 2009 9:20 AM
in response to: Bob Timmons
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One more thought. On the downstairs AEBS, the main one, check the wireless settings page using AirPort Utility - Manual Setup - Wireless tab.
If the box next to "Allow this network to be extended" is checked, uncheck the box as this setting is for wireless only. I'm not sure if this could be possibly causing some interference issues or not (probably no). But there's really no need to check the box...unless for some unknown reason that your wireless works better with the box checked.
Please let me know on your findings as I can't test that out here right now.
MacBook Pro, iMac
Mac OS X (10.5.8)
Time Capsule, AirPort Express, iPhone
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Posts:
3
From:
houston
Registered:
Nov 7, 2009
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Re: Wiring Two AEBSs to Improve Home Network Coverage?
Posted:
Nov 7, 2009 9:02 PM
in response to: Bob Timmons
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You aren't the only one with this problem. I think it must be quite common.
This is my setup:
Airport extreme is upstairs in a closet that has all of the structured wiring from the house. it is connected to the internet, and also to a gigabit switch which wires the rest of the house. Also the wireless is set to 802.11n (2Ghz). Channel is set to automatic
I have an airport express downstairs in the living room. I have setup this network as "extend a wireless network." it is not connected to anything else and just works as a wireless extender.
The download speed I get if I am close to the extreme is 6 Mbps and if I am downstairs near the express I get about 2 Mbps. If i change the channel manually on the extreme, I may get 6Mbps downstairs for a couple minutes, and then it is back down to 2 Mbps again. If i don't mess with the airport utility for a while, it will sometimes go even lower.
Don't really know what else to do. I think I'll try and connect it to the ethernet cable which is currently connected to the satellite box. Though that would mean no in demand service.
Here is some info I get from the airport utility:
wireless extender: signal -24, noise -95
mac book pro 2.33 Ghz Core 2 Duo
Mac OS X (10.6.1)
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Posts:
3,433
From:
Texas
Registered:
Dec 1, 2008
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Re: Wiring Two AEBSs to Improve Home Network Coverage?
Posted:
Nov 7, 2009 9:13 PM
in response to: dspatel
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Welcome to the discussions!
Sometimes it's a real challenge to try to figure out where to position the Express for best performance using the "extend a wireless network" feature because the Express must both receive a wireless signal from the main router and then rebroadcast it.
Try positioning the Express at a point that is roughly 1/2 to 2/3 of the distance between the main router and the area you want to cover. Remember that the Express can only extend what it receives. If it's not getting a good strong signal, it can't do what you really want.
MacBook Pro, iMac
Mac OS X (10.5.8)
Time Capsule, AirPort Express, iPhone
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