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May 22, 2007 12:09 PM
by: Duffloop
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Posts:
403
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May 14, 2005
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My 3rd Drive Bay is toast
Posted:
Aug 15, 2006 11:44 PM
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Well, I have run into my first hardware problem with my Mac Pro. And it isn't 3rd party RAM, or the power supply, or the PCI-Express cards or any of the usual suspects... it is the hard drive bays.
I have a 500GB stock Hitachi drive in bay 1. I added a WD 500 GB drive into bay 2 (5000YS?) with no issues.
Today, I added another WD 500GB drive identical to the 1st one I bought into bay 3.
At first, all seemed fine.. it showed up, I could partition it, etc.
But then when I tried to copy files to it, or backup to it, it took forever... and in fact hung in a few places.
I repartitioned it, etc... to no avail... it was seen, no errors noticable in ASP or any logs, but it just wouldn't work right.
I reseated it into Bay 3... same issues.
I swapped carriers from Bay 4 to Bay 3 (still using Bay 3's slot)... same issues.
So I swapped it to Bay 4 (which thank God is very easy to do), and Voila.. no problems. Backups anc copying files and all the stuff HDs do works perfectly.
Just for fun, I moved the drive back to Bay 3 after it worked perfectly in Bay 4... and the problems returned.
So there is definitely a problem with Bay 3 on my machine. I am curious if anyone else has this problem with additional drives.
In the meantime, it is no big deal. I moved the drive to Bay 4 and I have 1.5 TB of storage working well. If I have the problem in the future, if I want to expand to my last remaining bay (the bad Bay 3), I'll call AppleCare.
I want to blame the drive... but since it works fine in all the -other- bays (I didn't test it in bay 1), then one has to assume that the bay's connector is bad. Or loosely connected.
Mac Pro 3.0/3X500GB/2XSD/7300GT/BT/6GB*MBP 15" 2.0/256/2GB/7200*iMac Intel 17"
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
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Posts:
12,336
From:
Spain
Registered:
Nov 6, 2002
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Re: My 3rd Drive Bay is toast
Posted:
Aug 16, 2006 3:00 AM
in response to: controller2k
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 While you may not require it now, I would get this fixed ASAP.
Mac mini Core Duo 1.66GHz 2GB/80GB/SD ; PowerBook G4 1.25GHz 1GB/80GB/SD
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
Dell 2405FPW ; Maxtor OneTouch 250GB ; Pioneer DVR-109BK ; iSight ; iPod 4G 40GB
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Posts:
25,081
Registered:
Dec 12, 2001
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Re: My 3rd Drive Bay is toast
Posted:
Aug 16, 2006 4:33 AM
in response to: controller2k
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I wonder why but yes, not something you want to live with. I would let AppleCare know now though and open a problem report with them so they are aware of it, and establish this was present from the beginning.
Is it possible to see or inspect the drive connection it makes in the bay to see it is power or cable? Maybe the sled isn't getting power?
Does the console log show anything?
Apple Hardware Test say anything about bay #3?
If you have Intech's Speedtools it has what I think is one of the best SMART tests (SMART Guard) that can display all the recorded I/O errors etc the drive has logged.
G4 MDD WD 320 OEM 9600 1.75GB SoftAID 3
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
Mac Pro "rev 2" (hopefully)
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403
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May 14, 2005
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Re: My 3rd Drive Bay is toast
Posted:
Aug 16, 2006 7:10 AM
in response to: The hatter
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I guess I should call them, yes.
I saw no errors in Apple Hardware test, SMART status showed "verified". (I know it isn't the drive, so I guess it would show that. Nothing in the console log. It is truly bizarre, I know.
I wonder about power. That's a good point. I thought it might not be spinning up correctly as I did hear it kick up as if it was off once or twice as I was trying to access the drive (in Bay 3, again Bay 2, and 4 are fine with the same drive. I didn't test Bay 1 since that has the boot drive in it and is fine.)
I'll look for that test you talk of...
Thanks all for the help!
I wonder why but yes, not something you want to live
with. I would let AppleCare know now though and open
a problem report with them so they are aware of it,
and establish this was present from the beginning.
Is it possible to see or inspect the drive connection
it makes in the bay to see it is power or cable?
Maybe the sled isn't getting power?
Does the console log show anything?
Apple Hardware Test say anything about bay #3?
If you have Intech's Speedtools it has what I think
is one of the best SMART tests (SMART Guard) that can
display all the recorded I/O errors etc the drive has
logged.
Mac Pro 3.0/3X500GB/2XSD/7300GT/BT/6GB*MBP 15" 2.0/256/2GB/7200*iMac Intel 17"
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
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Posts:
403
Registered:
May 14, 2005
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Re: My 3rd Drive Bay is toast
Posted:
Aug 17, 2006 7:53 AM
in response to: controller2k
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And I will call them... because the problem has now expanded to Bay 2! ****.
Mac Pro 3.0/3X500GB/2XSD/7300GT/BT/6GB*MBP 15" 2.0/256/2GB/7200*iMac Intel 17"
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
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Posts:
25,081
Registered:
Dec 12, 2001
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Re: My 3rd Drive Bay is toast
Posted:
Aug 17, 2006 8:54 AM
in response to: controller2k
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Ouch! I have a 500GB stock Hitachi drive in bay 1. I added a WD 500 GB drive into bay 2 (5000YS?) with no issues.
Today, I added another WD 500GB drive identical to the 1st one I bought into bay 3.
I would get in touch with WDC support also. I don't suppose the drive could cause any damage, but would be nice to have a different make on hand to test.
G4 MDD WD 320 OEM 9600 1.75GB SoftAID 3
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
Mac Pro "rev 2" (hopefully)
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403
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May 14, 2005
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Re: My 3rd Drive Bay is toast
Posted:
Aug 17, 2006 9:00 PM
in response to: The hatter
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Well, I have done hours of additional research, and it seems the problem is much more sinister than I thought.
Despite having no reported hardware problems (and I ran Apple's hardware test and techtool), I have been having random unexplainable problems with the non-stock WD hard drives.
Most notably, the stock Hitachi 500 GB drive has no problems in any slots if it is booted byself.
But God forbid I add any other drives, like the WD, and eveything falls apart.
Sometimes, I can get them to work in Bay 4 only. Sometimes, in bay 2. Sometimes in bay 3, which I thought initially was a problem.
{"working" is defined as being able to use the hard drive without 5-10 second pauses in the middle of data transfer.}
I thought it was the O/S, but I had the same problem when I tried to install the O/S to a blank HD.
I had the problem on bootup, before I even saw the Apple logo.
It goes on. I think I have a serious logic board problem and I'll have to go to AppleCare or the Apple Store and let them have at this thing for a week or more.
Note, I even tried taking out the 3rd party RAM... this did not solve the problem.
Bottom line, the 500 GB WD 5000YS drives have been nothing but a problem for me. This is extremely odd because initially they worked fine, but as soon as I tried Bay 3, I have never been able to get them working right again.
I essentially have a $6,000 paperweight on my hands and I couldn't possibly be unhappier. Angry is a gross understatement to describe how I feel now.
Mac Pro 3.0/3X500GB/2XSD/7300GT/BT/6GB*MBP 15" 2.0/256/2GB/7200*iMac Intel 17"
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
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Posts:
12,336
From:
Spain
Registered:
Nov 6, 2002
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Re: My 3rd Drive Bay is toast
Posted:
Aug 17, 2006 9:07 PM
in response to: controller2k
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Do the Western Digital drives work ok on their own? That is, do they behave exactly like the Hitachi Deskstar (aka Deathstar) when used solo?
Mac mini Core Duo 1.66GHz 2GB/80GB/SD ; PowerBook G4 1.25GHz 1GB/80GB/SD
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
Dell 2405FPW ; Maxtor OneTouch 250GB ; Pioneer DVR-109BK ; iSight ; iPod 4G 40GB
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403
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May 14, 2005
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Re: My 3rd Drive Bay is toast
Posted:
Aug 18, 2006 12:26 AM
in response to: Ned Snowing
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![]() src="http://www.nsnowing.com/discussions/avatar80.gif"
align="right" hspace="5">Do the Western Digital
drives work ok on their own? That is, do they behave
exactly like the Hitachi Deskstar (aka Deathstar)
when used solo?
No, they didn't.
So I tried installing fresh on the (much quieter) WD drives. All went well.
I tested copying, etc... all was at full speed.
Then I put the Hitachi drive back in, but still running OS X from the new WD drive.
Still no problems.
I dare not use the 3rd bay, but I think there may be nothing wrong with it.
I have done multiple migration assistants over the months... from a PPC G5 to an iMac to an INtel iMac to a MacBook Pro and now to the Mac Pro.
It is very late and I am half awake, but my 1st idea is something was wrong with the software config.
I don't know how that explains the troubles I was having booting, installing, etc. but console logs do show journal adjustments so maybe that's all it was.
More to come.
Mac Pro 3.0/3X500GB/2XSD/7300GT/BT/6GB*MBP 15" 2.0/256/2GB/7200*iMac Intel 17"
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
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Posts:
343
Registered:
Oct 25, 2001
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Re: My 3rd Drive Bay is toast
Posted:
Aug 18, 2006 4:21 AM
in response to: controller2k
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There was a compatibility issue with the Power Mac G5's onboard serial interface and some Western Digital hard drives, and I wonder if that problem has not been addressed with the new Mac Pro. Here is the link. Or perhaps your hard drive has bad blocks, which can cause the slowness you describe. Though it will take a while, you might consider zeroing the data on the Western Digital drive(s) to see if the problem persists. Or another option would be to try a completely different brand of drive in the other bays, like Seagate or Maxtor to see if the problem is still present.
Mac OS X (10.4.5)
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Posts:
25,081
Registered:
Dec 12, 2001
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Re: My 3rd Drive Bay is toast
Posted:
Aug 18, 2006 5:09 AM
in response to: The Gibbon
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You have the RE2 which has longer burn in and 24/7 Enterprise drive w/ 5 yrs warranty. A few people have picked up the Caviar SE16 500GB model, but too soon to know.
And there is the 400GB problem drive but I thought that was because of SSC only. Though WDC says, "does not support certain standard Serial ATA interface protocols..." which leaves it unclear.
At least it will soon be possible to install XP so you can run WD's drive tool and change SATA parameters and features and re-zero a drive (not just write zeroes which is not always a good test or method to actually map out a bad block or sector, while a 7-way write WILL it takes a long time on 500GB and subjects a drive to a lot of heat (wear and tear) and may not solve the problem.
G4 MDD WD 320 OEM 9600 1.75GB SoftAID 3 Mac OS X (10.4.7) Mac Pro "rev 2" (hopefully)
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Posts:
343
Registered:
Oct 25, 2001
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Re: My 3rd Drive Bay is toast
Posted:
Aug 18, 2006 5:32 AM
in response to: The hatter
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while a 7-way write WILL it takes a long time on
500GB and subjects a drive to a lot of heat (wear and
tear) and may not solve the problem.
True. Which is why i suggested trying a different hard drive brand to rule out a compatibility issue. I wonder if it could have anything to do with the sata connector on the drive itself. If for example Western Digital's reliance on its "SecureConnect" cable allowed for looser sizing specs on the sata connector, then might not the drive when put into the Mac Pro's tray, possibly not make a firm connection? Just speculation, of course...
Mac OS X (10.4.5)
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Posts:
143
Registered:
Dec 19, 2003
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Re: My 3rd Drive Bay is toast
Posted:
Aug 18, 2006 9:53 AM
in response to: controller2k
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I'm really curious about this as I also thought about buying WD drives. Can you keep us posted.
G4 Quicksilver 867MHz
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
1.25 GB RAM
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Posts:
142
Registered:
Sep 16, 2004
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Re: My 3rd Drive Bay is toast
Posted:
Aug 18, 2006 11:02 AM
in response to: controller2k
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I think I am having the same problem.
I got my machine yesterday. After I zapped the PRAM to get my display to work properly :/ , everything was working fine and zippy. I powered down and installed the 2 hard drives I had previously been using in my G5. When I clicked on my old G5 boot drive, the Finder hung for about 2 or 3 minutes. I couldn't do anything else while the finder was hung. Once it "unhung", it went through all of the motions I had tried to do (windows opened up, applications launched etc). Things seemed to work fine unless I let them sleep for a while.. then it seemed like I could open folders on the drive that I had previously been inside (cached?), but when I tried to dig deeper, the problem came back.
I will play with it some more when I get home tonight and post what I find. Both of those HD's are WD's though, I think. I might be forced to buy new (faster) drives if I can't get it to work  I think I'll stay away from the WD's if I do...
Dual 2.0Ghz G5
Mac OS X (10.4.6)
Revolution 5.1, AlchemyDVR
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Posts:
403
Registered:
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Re: My 3rd Drive Bay is toast
Posted:
Aug 18, 2006 11:12 AM
in response to: swellfonder
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Well,
I followed someone's suggestion of taking the Hitachi out of the picture. I kept the WD drives in and reinstalled OS X Tiger on one of them.
No problems, no pauses in data transfer.
I moved them around all the bays...
No problems.
I reintroduced the Hitachi as a data drive (the WD runs now as the boot drive.. which is nice because it is much quieter than the Hitachi)...
and no problems for a good 15+ hours or so. No strangness, no pauses in data, nothing.
Maybe I had some crap in my old install? It was a migration from 4 different computers in a row (including a PPC G5) and maybe something snuck in.
That's the only possible explanation because once I was able to install fresh the drive problems ceased.
I'll report more as I know it, but so far so good.
Mac Pro 3.0/3X500GB/2XSD/7300GT/BT/6GB*MBP 15" 2.0/256/2GB/7200*iMac Intel 17"
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
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