Posts:
62
Registered:
Feb 20, 2003
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We are straying off topic
Posted:
Sep 2, 2006 7:54 AM
in response to: Wolf Schweitzer1
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This whole experience makes me happy I got AppleCare. First time I have used it with dozens of machines at work and home. It is hardly a gamble. Purchase AppleCare but don’t need it => three years with trouble free Mac => Winner!
Yes, I agree that Apple should repair PowerBooks with this problem outside of warranty. That still might happen. I infer from my own experience, namely that the AppleCare guru on the phone had not heard of the problem, that this is a newish phenomenon. The fact that at least two people had Apple replace the HD and not the keyboard/topcase combo, indicate that the word had not gotten to all the folks making hardware repairs.
I must caution that venting about Apple is in violation of the Apple Discussions Use Agreement which has the express purpose: “Apple Discussions is a user-to-user support forum.”
I, for one, am extremely grateful to have stumbled upon this thread. I was immediately relived that I wasn’t the only one to have the problem. I never would have guessed that the track pad was the problem. I learned how to pin point the problem (using Temperature Monitor) and even about a clever hack that circumvents the hardware failure.
Even without using Temperature Monitor first, just having read this thread gave me the confidence to be assertive with the AppleCare rep and insist that Apple repair what I believed to be a hardware problem. (I was a little incredulous when after jumping through all his hoops, the rep still wanted to blame software!)
I am someone who had the exact problem that started this thread. I have benefited greatly from Rick and Wolf. It pains me to say this, but this call for a recall and bad publicity reads like sour grapes to me.
PowerBook G4 15" 1.5GHz
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
My screen reader came with a free computer!
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Posts:
61
Registered:
Oct 18, 2005
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Re: We are straying off topic
Posted:
Sep 3, 2006 3:08 AM
in response to: Bruce Bailey
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Bruce, I agree that dumping on Apple is not achieving much but it this is the first time I can remember a problem like this causing so much anger and frustration. The people who can fix this or at least understand and explain it are the Apple techies. They are not interested it seems.... or is there no way to alert the company other than for users to wait months while it filters up from Apple centers and so on.
The ONLY reason I want to alert the media is so that Apple wakes up and gets onto fixing this problem. The grapes sure taste sour from where I sit and it helps not a bit to blame oneself for not buying extended care. We are already paying top dollar one of the most expensive computers available and like many others, I foolishly thought that these new Macs would be a well built as the old models.
I thought that as an experienced Mac owner, I would not need to spend the $350 but rather could find a work around for any glitches that came up via forums and other free resources... I did not expect a factory fault this serious would be palmed off on the buyers and not even acknowledged by Apple.
I have never been so crippled by ANY computer problem.... EVER. While I admire Apple and have used scores of their products since buying my first Apple computer back in 87, I have to say that I am having second thoughts about our new design studio upgrading to new Mac equipment... that is a $50,000 order than now is on hold.
Powerbook G4 15" Model 5,6
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
CPU 1.67 GHz Memory 1.5GB
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Posts:
49
From:
Oxford
Registered:
Sep 8, 2005
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Re: PowerBook Goes to Sleep During Use
Posted:
Sep 15, 2006 5:41 AM
in response to: sheppardp
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A few mornings back I wrote a posting to say that since my last posting, a couple of weeks ago my PB had been behaving impeccably. This was worrying as I had made no alterations to either hardware or software, so the intermittent & random nature of the problem was thus confirmed. I then realised that I was really tempting fate, so didn't send the post, & waited to see what happened.Then my replacement battery from the recall arrived, I replaced it & have suffered constant (about 50+ times a day - four times so far in writing this!) sleep episodes. I have never been a fan of the trackpad temperature solution as I normally run between 38C & 40.5C & I have even had narcolepsy problems shortly after starting up, when everything is quite cool. So, what have I done since the battery arrived? I followed the Apple instructions, letting the old one discharge, turning the machine on its back to replace the battery, letting the new one discharge & the fitting the Power Adaptor to run on mains power ever since. The only thing I can think of is the issue of handling, that some component is fouling another since turning the PB on its back. Does this ring a bell with anyone?... james P.S. twelve sleeps in writing the above!
15" 1.67Ghz 1 Gb Powerbook PPC G4 Mac OS X (10.4.7) 15" Titanium 550 Mhz 512Mb Powerbook
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Posts:
61
Registered:
Oct 18, 2005
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Re: PowerBook Goes to Sleep During Use
Posted:
Sep 15, 2006 3:45 PM
in response to: James King-Holmes
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James, for the past 10 days I've had my battery back in and the powersupply on.... just like in the good ole days before N.A.P. nightmares started.... all seems normal except that my trackpad temp is showing a steady 91º C. No N.A.P. attacks for ages and some degree of calm has returned to my life. Like you I was nervous about telling anyone.... I've also become a little superstitious in the past months.
Normally I pull the power overnight and close the lid. Have followed this routine for well over a month. Yesterday we finally got broadband in Padang. Not real fast and pretty expensive.... but it works and being on-line is FUN for a change.
So last night we had a big family dinner and I forgot to close the lid or pull the plug. Just walked away and left the computer on at my desk..... sort of like in the good ole days. Reckless and stupid but we were all laughing and joking and the world seemed so right.
My energy saver is set to 'never' put the computer to sleep while it is plugged in, but for one night no bid deal. The screen is set to sleep after 30 min and it was black when I went to work this morning.
Realizing what I had done made my stomach turn and the first tap of the space bar did not wake the machine.... my pulse rate went up.... who needs coffee!
The second tap of the space bar and all was well. Everything was just as I had left it last night.... except for one thing.
My trackpad is now reading 25º C????
This is OK weird, even NICE weird, but still very weird.
So students of N.A.P....... add that one to your files. I'm no wiser and still living in fear of black death's return...... but this morning I almost feel like celebrating.
Onwards, Rick
http://web.mac.com/rickcameron/iWeb/Electric%20Lamb/N.A.P./N.A.P..html
or mail me at rickcameron @ mac.com (remove spaces) and I will invite you to register your problem at the N.A.P. .Mac Group
Powerbook G4 15" Model 5,6
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
CPU 1.67 GHz Memory 1.5GB
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Posts:
49
From:
Oxford
Registered:
Sep 8, 2005
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Re: PowerBook Goes to Sleep During Use
Posted:
Sep 16, 2006 12:42 AM
in response to: Rick Cameron
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Rick. Here's something to work on - thinking about the past couple of trouble-free weeks, I also had changed my habit of leaving the PB on to get overnight emails, and started to power off at night. Then the night before last (after fitting the new battery) I left it on to record a TV programme - the next day was Trouble (with a capital T).I have since tried to reset the PMU, which seemed to be unsuccessful if the mark of a reset PMU is the loss of the 'real' time but which may have worked if the computer's clock was updated online (lovely broadband!), but seems to have returned the computer to normal. Whilst there will be others who have the NAP who do concientiously shut down at night (& it would be interesting to hear from them) I shall continue to do this to try & keep this particular gremlin at bay. ...... James
15" 1.67Ghz 1 Gb Powerbook PPC G4 Mac OS X (10.4.7) 15" Titanium 550 Mhz 512Mb Powerbook
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Posts:
1
Registered:
Sep 27, 2006
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Re: PowerBook Goes to Sleep During Use
Posted:
Sep 27, 2006 10:52 AM
in response to: sheppardp
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For me, the problem started about two months ago - ironically around the same time my 1yr warranty ended. I've spent a good deal of time researching this problem. A lot of people with Powerbooks (especially those bought in the late summer of 2005) seem to have this 'narcolepsy' problem. Reseting the PMU or NRAM does not help. The console log reads the same, and the Temperature Monitor reading varies. But all the results were mixed and I've yet to find anyone who has truly fixed the problem.
I had the thought that maybe I could simply disable the trackpad or sensor, but there is no clear cut way (or easy) way of doing that. I even cracked open the Powerbook to investigate a way of physically unplugging it, but the ribbon cable that the trackpad uses also connects the keyboard and powerbutton. My thought was, "No sensor reading, no shutdown." But the trackpad can't be unplugged.
So if people have had their motherboards, logic boards, HDs, and case and it still doesn't work - what is the fix?
Powerbook 15" 1.5Ghz Mac OS X (10.4.7)
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Posts:
49
From:
Oxford
Registered:
Sep 8, 2005
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Re: PowerBook Goes to Sleep During Use
Posted:
Sep 29, 2006 1:28 AM
in response to: Flippo
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I have now had my PB repaired by an Apple Authorised Service technician, & it seems to have cured the problem, which turned out to be faulty or insecure connections on the Ambient Light sensors (located under the top cover at the top right & left).This would explain why people who have had logic boards or top covers replaced would see an improvement, as these sensors would probably be re-connected anyway. I didn't have the temperature fluctuations noticed by some people, but had all the other symptoms (see my previous postings on this list) so it may be that there is more than one problem around. Anyway, it is worth getting these sensors checked out, as the solution of replacing them was relatively inexpensive (compared to new top covers & logic boards!). James
15" 1.67Ghz 1 Gb Powerbook PPC G4 Mac OS X (10.4.7) 15" Titanium 550 Mhz 512Mb Powerbook
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Posts:
3
Registered:
Sep 30, 2006
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Re: PowerBook Goes to Sleep During Use
Posted:
Sep 30, 2006 5:21 AM
in response to: dwhjr
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For me, the problem started about two months ago -
ironically around the same time my 1yr warranty
ended. I've spent a good deal of time researching
this problem. A lot of people with Powerbooks
(especially those bought in the late summer of 2005)
seem to have this 'narcolepsy' problem. Reseting the
PMU or NRAM does not help. The console log reads the
same, and the Temperature Monitor reading varies. But
all the results were mixed and I've yet to find
anyone who has truly fixed the problem.
I went yesterday to technical support due to the same problem, a Powerbook G4 bought in Aug. 2005. I was sure that the problem was _only_ the trackpad, as this is all I could see in the system log, but when we where checking the serial number in the genious bar for the shipment, I saw that the recognized RAM was only 1 G (it physically had 2 G), and the system profiler claimed that the second slot was actually empty.
So apparently my problem is much much deeper. The laptop is on it's way to apple now, and I'll update the discussion list with some more news when I get them.
I had the thought that maybe I could simply disable
the trackpad or sensor, but there is no clear cut way
(or easy) way of doing that. I even cracked open the
Powerbook to investigate a way of physically
unplugging it, but the ribbon cable that the trackpad
uses also connects the keyboard and powerbutton. My
thought was, "No sensor reading, no shutdown." But
the trackpad can't be unplugged.
So if people have had their motherboards, logic
boards, HDs, and case and it still doesn't work -
what is the fix?
class=otherinfo>Powerbook 15" 1.5Ghz Mac OS X
(10.4.7)
Powerbook G4 / 1.6 Ghz
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
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Posts:
61
Registered:
Oct 18, 2005
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Re: PowerBook Goes to Sleep During Use
Posted:
Sep 30, 2006 5:48 AM
in response to: avlondono
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Like you, I think the problem runs much deeper.
To prove my point consider this.
After terrible NAP attacks for weeks I managed to nurse my computer back to some kind of stability by removing the battery, clearing prefs files, resetting PMU and all the other tweeks falling short of ripping parts out or hacking my OS code. It seemed to work... then I noticed that when I forgot to remove my battery after using it over night in sleep mode, that nothing happened. ie no NAP attack. My trackpad settled at 24ºC and all seemed well. Then suddenly one day the trackpad jumped to 96ºC and stayed there. No NAP attack. Why? Way over the limit but no attack. Starting to think the trackpad sensor is a red herring. Mail me and join our support group. We are all going to take our PBs to Steve Jobs house and burn them on his lawn.
Powerbook G4 15" Model 5,6
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
CPU 1.67 GHz Memory 1.5GB
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Posts:
61
Registered:
Oct 18, 2005
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Re: PowerBook Goes to Sleep During Use
Posted:
Sep 30, 2006 7:16 AM
in response to: avlondono
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Well, everyone, you are going to love this.... my trackpad temp reading is now ---ºC
Nothing at all. Just gone. Vanished. Disappeared. Hopefully forever. A miracle? Doubt it.....
No NAP attack now for 28 days. Fingers crossed in fear and loathing.
We are coming Steve.
Rick (no way I'm going to pay)
Powerbook G4 15" Model 5,6
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
CPU 1.67 GHz Memory 1.5GB
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Posts:
2
Registered:
Sep 30, 2006
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Re: PowerBook Goes to Sleep During Use
Posted:
Sep 30, 2006 8:45 AM
in response to: sheppardp
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The same is happening to me. This is ridiculous. I am not anywhere close to an Apple Retail Center.
I have managed to get the computer to work for a few hours before the temperature starts "rising" by resetting the PMU and restting the NVRAM. Then the trackpad goes to 25 Celcius for a few hours of uninterupted work. Like bad medicine, it temporarily cures the symptoms but does not fix the root problem.
Is there a way to tell Apple about this? Do they have an email address I can use? I cannot afford to call internationally, as I am a volunteer in Romania.
Powerbook G4 15"
Mac OS X (10.4)
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Posts:
22
Registered:
Jul 29, 2006
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Re: PowerBook Goes to Sleep During Use
Posted:
Sep 30, 2006 10:30 PM
in response to: sheppardp
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Go to http://digg.com/view/technology/upcoming for a brief article about this problem.
If enough people vote on ("digg") this submission, it will get promoted for more exposure.
Powerbook G4 15' Aluminum
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
1.67 GHz / 1 GB
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Posts:
22
Registered:
Jul 29, 2006
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Re: PowerBook Goes to Sleep During Use
Posted:
Sep 30, 2006 10:33 PM
in response to: clayb
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Sorry. To "digg" (vote for and promote exposure for) the article, find it here:
http://digg.com/users/mysterbee/dugg
Powerbook G4 15' Aluminum
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
1.67 GHz / 1 GB
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Posts:
3
Registered:
Sep 30, 2006
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Re: PowerBook Goes to Sleep During Use
Posted:
Oct 6, 2006 11:20 AM
in response to: Rick Cameron
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OK, so I just got my computer back, the parts changed are:
PCBA,MLB,BEST128MHZ,PB15'' (The board?)
TOP CASE MOD ASSY, Q16B (The top of the laptop where the sensor is?)
In any case, the problem seems to be fully resolved now. If it arises again, I shall update the discussion list.
PowerBook G4, 15''
Mac OS X (10.4.8)
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Posts:
22
Registered:
Jul 29, 2006
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Re: PowerBook Goes to Sleep During Use: New Theory: HUMIDITY?
Posted:
Oct 14, 2006 4:15 AM
in response to: sheppardp
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Here's an update:
Apple Care did the diagnostic test that Flippo (?) recommended on the mac user forum, and it came back negative--no problem.
They told me that they couldn't replace the topcase without evidence, but would honor my screenshots and system logs as evidence next time it happens, and make all the replacements then. (They wouldn't honor this evidence this time.)
So now I'm using my G4 like a demon, HOPING it will go narcoleptic again, and....it won't. I haven't had a problem in weeks.
So here's a new theory: HUMIDITY. It happened first in Alabama in sweltering June, then happened more in Seoul, in more muggy July.
Now, in dry October--and in September, too--no problems.
Think about it: moisture conducts electricity. Aluminum is a metal, so condensation would happen just like on a Coke can. Which sends the G4's into crazy electrical spasms. Could it be an insulation problem?
What are your thoughts?
PS. This accounts, too, for the weird low-level electrical current I could feel on my topcase in the summer. It doesn't happen now. I'll get back to you next summer, when I suspect the nightmare will return with the humidity.
It's a good thing Extended Care is two years--that gives me two more humid summers to trigger it while covered.
Powerbook G4 15' Aluminum
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
1.67 GHz / 1 GB
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