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11
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Last Post
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Dec 14, 2007 11:51 AM
by: Ralph Johns (UK)
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Posts:
41
Registered:
Sep 29, 2001
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Video chat UPnP problem
Posted:
Dec 3, 2007 4:14 PM
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Hi there,
Since upgrading to Leopard, my wife and I have had no end of problems video chatting to others via iChat. Everything used to work fine in our older 10.4 installation.
When we connect in the morning, the first person to open up iChat is fine. They can video chat with others outside our local network no problem. However, the second person that connects can only text chat, video will not work.
Having read through the threads in here I think I can see the problem, but I don't know how to fix it. That's where I am hoping someone here can help.
When the first iChat client connects, the router automatically allocates a route through the NAT firewall on port 16402, the debug log says:
Mapped via UPnP, port 16402 to port 16402
This is fine, iChat works perfectly on that port configuration.
However, when the next person opens up iChat on the next computer, we get the following entry:
UPnP: TCPProc begin loop
UPnP eport 16402 already mapped: retry next
Mapped via UPnP, port 16406 to port 16402
UPnP: TCPProc end
UPnP shutdown
In this instance the port the UPnP process allocates is above the range that iChat can use, ie 16406. Hence when we try to video chat it won't work.
In a previous posting (http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1212655&tstart=0) Ralph Johns mentioned that:
You will see iChat 4 uses only 10 Ports.
They are similar numbers but start from top Down (16402 being first choice)
(iChat 3 uses 4 from 20 ports bottom up with 16384 being first).
My belief is that if my router worked the same in the older version of iChat, then the first port allocated would have been 16384, and then next would be 16388 - a port within the allowable iChat range. Hence everything worked fine with two clients.
Does anyone have any idea how I can change iChat to use to allocate ports for the bottom of the range, or adjust my router (a Netopia 3346N-VGx) to allocate UPnP ports in a downward direction?
Thanks in advance,
Simon
MacBook Pro 2Ghz
Mac OS X (10.5.1)
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Posts:
36,213
From:
Ferndown (UK)
Registered:
Jan 22, 2003
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Re: Video chat UPnP problem
Posted:
Dec 7, 2007 2:36 PM
in response to: S Harvey
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Hi,
That is odd.
I have yet to have failure myself that lists anything other than port 16402.
I use UPnP in my Netgear DG834G
I have one computer in Leopard and the other is in Tiger so although I can view the ports UPnP allocates in my Netgear I can not get two to use port 16402 potentially at the same time.
The next issue is that the Apple Doc says the ports will move down one port at a time.
Now iChat 3 moves up 4 ports at a time if the lower ones are busy.
So we have to ask is iChat 4 using some left over remains of iChat 3 ??
This is because it mat be presuming that 4 ports can not be used (16402-16405) and 16406 would be the next port.
I could do with knowing where you are getting those readouts from ?
The router or on the Mac in Console or Terminal ?
What make is the device ?
UPnP should allow the same ports to be used from different computers
However some devices may allocate a temporary Mapping and do what this looks like.
It looks like two issues.
1) UPnP is not working as expected.
2) Maybe the Upgrade has left part of iChat 3 there and is confusing the issue.
For this go to System/Library/ and show it in Coverflow mode.
Then check the Date Modified dates of Frameworks
Look inside and check InstantMessage.framework
Then inside that check iChatAgent's date
These should show the date that you installed Leopard.
USe the Back button until you are back at the System/Library
Now check the PrivateFramework folder and then the VideoConference.framework inside that.
Again it should be the install date.
Edit.
Go to Applications and click once on iChat
Use Apple key and I together to do a Get info.
Which version is it ?
10:36 PM Friday; December 7, 2007
Message was edited by: Ralph Johns (UK)
G4/1GhzDual MDD (10.4.10) MacBookPro 2gig( 10.5) NETGEAR DG834GUK + Dazzle DV
Mac OS X (10.5)
+ Well 10.4.10 "Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."
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Posts:
9,519
From:
London, England, UK
Registered:
Nov 3, 2001
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Re: Video chat UPnP problem
Posted:
Dec 7, 2007 2:43 PM
in response to: Ralph Johns (UK)
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Ralph i think i have seen that with Nick Tarry.
iMacG5 20" , iBookG4 12" , iSight
Mac OS X (10.5)
Netgear DG834N, --------iChat: defcom1@mac.com++++email: defcom@gmail.com++++
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Posts:
36,213
From:
Ferndown (UK)
Registered:
Jan 22, 2003
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Re: Video chat UPnP problem
Posted:
Dec 8, 2007 11:54 AM
in response to: Defcom(UK)
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Hi Defcom,
He has tried a couple of times with me as well and I will look at that further.
I had not seen it specifically in reading most logs But it is while the chat is going on.
7:54 PM Saturday; December 8, 2007
G4/1GhzDual MDD (10.4.10) MacBookPro 2gig( 10.5) NETGEAR DG834GUK + Dazzle DV
Mac OS X (10.5.1)
+ Well, 10.4.11 "Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."
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Posts:
41
Registered:
Sep 29, 2001
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Re: Video chat UPnP problem
Posted:
Dec 9, 2007 12:21 AM
in response to: Ralph Johns (UK)
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Hi Ralph,
Some answers to your questions.
I could do with knowing where you are getting those readouts from ?
The router or on the Mac in Console or Terminal ?
These come from the terminal when running iChat in debug mode.
What make is the device ?
It's a Netopia router, as supplied by my ISP.
2) Maybe the Upgrade has left part of iChat 3 there and is confusing the issue.
Then check the Date Modified dates of Frameworks
Yep, these are all very recent.
Look inside and check InstantMessage.framework
4th Oct 2007, so I guess that is up to date.
and then the VideoConference.framework
Yep, pretty current too, mid November.
iChat version
v4.0
Hope that helps,
Simon
MacBook Pro 2Ghz
Mac OS X (10.5.1)
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Posts:
36,213
From:
Ferndown (UK)
Registered:
Jan 22, 2003
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Re: Video chat UPnP problem
Posted:
Dec 9, 2007 5:09 AM
in response to: S Harvey
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Two things.
The date of 4th Oct does not seem right - If it is anything else but the iChatAgent
Which Netopia ?
I don't think it is the Netopia as the ....
/Applications/iChat.app/Contents/MacOS/iChat -errorLogLevel 7
Points to they way iChat runs.
This is very odd.
I am having a hard time trying to imagining what the issues is unless Apple say the ports are supposed to drop downwards one port at a time and they have not included that in the final version.
1:09 PM Sunday; December 9, 2007
G4/1GhzDual MDD (10.4.10) MacBookPro 2gig( 10.5) NETGEAR DG834GUK + Dazzle DV
Mac OS X (10.5.1)
+ Well, 10.4.11 "Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."
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Posts:
41
Registered:
Sep 29, 2001
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Posts:
36,213
From:
Ferndown (UK)
Registered:
Jan 22, 2003
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Re: Video chat UPnP problem
Posted:
Dec 9, 2007 6:27 AM
in response to: S Harvey
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Ok
This page does not clearly indicate this device does UPnP
http://portforward.com/english/routers/port_forwarding/Netopia/3346N-VGx/iChat.htm
It also does not show the DNS servers in these pics.
I would make sure Netopia and Mac have the DNS servers for iChat to work.
I am still struggling to see why iChat would move the ports in the "wrong" direction. (Unless this happened to be the Random port - but then it should be showing that after port 16393 had bee tried.)
2:27 PM Sunday; December 9, 2007
G4/1GhzDual MDD (10.4.10) MacBookPro 2gig( 10.5) NETGEAR DG834GUK + Dazzle DV
Mac OS X (10.5.1)
+ Well, 10.4.11 "Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."
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Posts:
41
Registered:
Sep 29, 2001
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Re: Video chat UPnP problem
Posted:
Dec 9, 2007 7:56 AM
in response to: Ralph Johns (UK)
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The router definitely has a UPnP checkbox on the main configuration page, so I am guessing that it means that it supports this. I am trying to avoid static forwarding as I use DHCP within my network, and have several laptops that connect in to iChat. The router only supports forwarding a port on to one machine if you use static forwarding as shown in the example you provide.
Everything certainly has access to the DNS servers. Any additional logging information I could post that might help you?
MacBook Pro 2Ghz
Mac OS X (10.5.1)
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Posts:
36,213
From:
Ferndown (UK)
Registered:
Jan 22, 2003
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Re: Video chat UPnP problem
Posted:
Dec 9, 2007 8:06 AM
in response to: S Harvey
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Could I see the whole of the /Applications/iChat.app/Contents/MacOS/iChat -errorLogLevel 7 log please ?
4:06 PM Sunday; December 9, 2007
G4/1GhzDual MDD (10.4.10) MacBookPro 2gig( 10.5) NETGEAR DG834GUK + Dazzle DV
Mac OS X (10.5.1)
+ Well, 10.4.11 "Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."
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Posts:
413
Registered:
Jan 19, 2006
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Re: Video chat UPnP problem
Posted:
Dec 13, 2007 11:57 AM
in response to: Ralph Johns (UK)
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Ralph, In a response to someone else you said:
"2) Maybe the Upgrade has left part of iChat 3 there and is confusing the issue.
For this go to System/Library/ and show it in Coverflow mode.
Then check the Date Modified dates of Frameworks
Look inside and check InstantMessage.framework
Then inside that check iChatAgent's date
These should show the date that you installed Leopard."
In my case, Frameworks, and InstantMessage.framework are dated Oct. 29 /07 while iChatAgent's date is Oct. 3 / 07 (before Leopard was available.) I initially did a simple upgrade from Tiger on Oct. 26 and later did an Archive and Install on Oct. 29. Curious that iChatAgent would have a pre-Leopard date. Any suggestions on how best to correct this?
Later... I just did a Get Info on iChatAgent and it reports it as version 4.0 created Oct. 3 and Modified Oct. 3 so perhaps it is the most recent version after all.
Message was edited by: WebSailor
20" Intel Core Duo iMAC
Mac OS X (10.5.1)
2 GB Ram, Canon iP4300, CanoScan 4400F, EyeTV 200
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Posts:
36,213
From:
Ferndown (UK)
Registered:
Jan 22, 2003
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Re: Video chat UPnP problem
Posted:
Dec 14, 2007 11:51 AM
in response to: WebSailor
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Hi,
Yes. The folders should have the date they were installed.
The iChatAgent is an app and will have the date Apple last played with it.
It will will be based on where your Time Zone is as to whether this shows the 3rd or 4th Oct.
So I would say your is OK
of course the icon in the DOCK is the bit that links to the actual app and this could be pointing to a iChat 3 version. Use the Control or Right click to "Show in Finder" and then check that folder to see it is actually the Applications Folder in Hard Drive/Applications and not hard Drive /Previous Systems/Applications which is likely to hold any Tiger install.
7:51 PM Friday; December 14, 2007
G4/1GhzDual MDD (10.4.10) MacBookPro 2gig( 10.5) NETGEAR DG834GUK + Dazzle DV
Mac OS X (10.5.1)
+ Well, 10.4.11 "Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."
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