Posts:
11
From:
Taiwan
Registered:
Sep 9, 2007
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Probable explanation for Ipod Touch LCD deficiencies
Posted:
Sep 15, 2007 11:20 PM
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I'm an engineer with experience in the LCD industry and after seeing enough photos of the Ipod Touch I feel that I can make a pretty accurate assessment of the "black level" situation. It appears to me that it's a problem with the anti-reflective coating. The good news is this is most likely a temporary situation due to quality control issues.
(Added explanation: The AR coating is essentially a clear layer that prevents light from reflecting off of that surface. What's happening here is the upper glass layer is reflecting light from the LCD screen back down onto the said screen. Without an AR coating you get exactly what you see - shimmering blacks. The problem isn't noticeable with vibrant colors on screen. Rotating the screen will change the way this light is reflected to your eyes and may minimize the problem, but since the LCD was engineered to give best color output when looking straight on, you're left with a losing battle.)
Apple surely rushed the factory on getting these out (Steve was likely already upset enough that they weren't ready for the announcement along with the other units) and the factory, under undoubtedly ridiculous amounts of pressure, started to skimp on this very expensive - and very important - part of the process. Additionally, AR coating issues would also explain why you see "slight changes" from one unit to the next.
It's the last thing anyone wants to hear, but the best thing to do is wait 2 weeks or even a month for the complaints to filter through Apple HQ into the factory where changes will certainly be made.
Good luck all - and to those who got good units congrats!
Message was edited by: drvelocity
Message was edited by: drvelocity
Message was edited by: drvelocity
Macbook Pro
Mac OS X (10.4.10)
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Posts:
112
From:
Ohio
Registered:
Sep 6, 2007
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Re: Probable explanation for Ipod Touch LCD deficiencies
Posted:
Sep 15, 2007 11:31 PM
in response to: drvelocity
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Thanks for the great explanation! I still have yet to recieve my pre-rder unit but its past the point where I can cancel it. I had it engraved, do you think Appl would be able to repair it sometime in the future?
MacBook (2.16GHz White), Self Built Gaming PC, iBook G4 1.33, 16GB iPod Touch,
Mac OS X (10.4.10)
AirPort Extreme 802.11n, 30GB Zune, Xbox 360, PC includes NVIDIA 8800 + 3 GB RAM
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Posts:
57
From:
Southern CA
Registered:
Jun 22, 2007
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Re: Probable explanation for Ipod Touch LCD deficiencies
Posted:
Sep 15, 2007 11:32 PM
in response to: drvelocity
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Great explanation. Totally makes sense. Will be interesting to see what happens. Though, I don't know if Apple will let people hang out for a month to exchange their units. Definitely a help to people who are waiting. Just reinforces the notion not to buy first generation products.
Mac Pro, Powerbook G4
Mac OS X (10.4.9)
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Posts:
11
From:
Taiwan
Registered:
Sep 9, 2007
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Re: Probable explanation for Ipod Touch LCD deficiencies
Posted:
Sep 15, 2007 11:44 PM
in response to: ColonelSmith
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Yeah, should be doable. In any case if yours has this problem they have to take care of it one way or another, right? My guess is they'd swap out your engraved half onto a new or refurb unit, keep the insides, and toss the LCD.
Macbook Pro
Mac OS X (10.4.10)
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Posts:
29
From:
USA
Registered:
Sep 15, 2007
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Re: Probable explanation for Ipod Touch LCD deficiencies
Posted:
Sep 15, 2007 11:50 PM
in response to: drvelocity
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Hmm that sounds like it is the most probable cause, good diagnosis!! Someone send him a Touch _
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Posts:
163
Registered:
Sep 28, 2005
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Re: Probable explanation for Ipod Touch LCD deficiencies
Posted:
Sep 16, 2007 12:00 AM
in response to: K3NNY II
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I am not a scientist on TV, but I do play ony i real life.
From mine, it seems like a simple contrast slider would fix, or at least make acceptable to the majority of users. It partly depends on the controls and partly on the users. Some will never be satisfied after hearing about the problem and then looking. Some of the rest of us say that it looks like my flat screen TV when the controls are all whack. Hopefully it is more the latter.
iMac Core Duo, 20" 2GHz, 256 VRAM; iPod Touch 16 Gb (on order)
Mac OS X (10.4.10)
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Posts:
36
From:
Canada
Registered:
Sep 15, 2007
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Re: Probable explanation for Ipod Touch LCD deficiencies
Posted:
Sep 16, 2007 12:07 AM
in response to: drvelocity
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So is it a software or a hardware deficiency?
I mean, no one has had a problem with black on the navigation screen. :o
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Posts:
112
From:
Ohio
Registered:
Sep 6, 2007
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Re: Probable explanation for Ipod Touch LCD deficiencies
Posted:
Sep 16, 2007 12:28 AM
in response to: Odicon
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If its not something seen on the navigation screen then it could be a software issue with the video codec on certain models or something... maybe it could be fixed with a firmware update. That would be a really good outcome to this situation
MacBook (2.16GHz White), Self Built Gaming PC, iBook G4 1.33, 16GB iPod Touch,
Mac OS X (10.4.10)
AirPort Extreme 802.11n, 30GB Zune, Xbox 360, PC includes NVIDIA 8800 + 3 GB RAM
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Posts:
8
Registered:
Sep 9, 2007
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Re: Probable explanation for Ipod Touch LCD deficiencies
Posted:
Sep 16, 2007 12:30 AM
in response to: ColonelSmith
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Let's hope so, because this 'll cost them if not.
Imac
Mac OS X (10.4.10)
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Posts:
11
From:
Taiwan
Registered:
Sep 9, 2007
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Re: Probable explanation for Ipod Touch LCD deficiencies
Posted:
Sep 16, 2007 12:35 AM
in response to: Odicon
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Remember that when you are on the navigation screen, you are looking at the screen from a completely different angle - for some reason it seems as though looking at the screen vertically doesn't result in the same problem.
I'd bet everything I had this isn't a software/firmware fixable issue.
Macbook Pro
Mac OS X (10.4.10)
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Posts:
42
Registered:
Oct 7, 2005
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Re: Probable explanation for Ipod Touch LCD deficiencies
Posted:
Sep 16, 2007 1:08 AM
in response to: ColonelSmith
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you can notice it on the home screen, juulst not as much because it's just a black BG. I think OP nailed it. Which would unfortunately be a hardware issue.
PowerBook G4
Mac OS X (10.4.2)
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Posts:
30
From:
Knightdale, NC
Registered:
Sep 14, 2007
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Re: Probable explanation for Ipod Touch LCD deficiencies
Posted:
Sep 16, 2007 7:35 AM
in response to: drvelocity
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This sounds like a very good explanation to me. If I tilt the iPod back and left I get better results. I don't think its a codec problem, because it happens on photos and web stuff too.
I'll wait until friday and see if we get any resolutions.
Thanks
Macbook
Mac OS X (10.4.10)
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Posts:
11
From:
Taiwan
Registered:
Sep 9, 2007
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Re: Probable explanation for Ipod Touch LCD deficiencies
Posted:
Sep 16, 2007 1:14 PM
in response to: LurchNC
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I've also recently been made aware that unlike the Iphone, the ipod touch's LCD is not fused to the glass - which would certainly exacerbate the problem of internal reflection. Even the tiniest space between two layers (even if they seem to be laying perfectly flat together) can cause these types of problems.
Macbook Pro
Mac OS X (10.4.10)
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Posts:
42
Registered:
Oct 7, 2005
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Re: Probable explanation for Ipod Touch LCD deficiencies
Posted:
Sep 16, 2007 4:10 PM
in response to: drvelocity
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I am certain that your explanation is correct, or at least close to the mark.
The unit is displaying blacks, it's not a display driver or codec problem. When you tilt the screen the image improves in that aspect, but degrades in other aspects (colors fade as normally happens, etc.) And who wants to have to watch all movies on your iPod with the screen tilted away at an angle?
There's no reason why you should get this problem with looking directly at the screen, that's why I'm certain it's hardware related.
PowerBook G4
Mac OS X (10.4.2)
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Posts:
19
Registered:
Sep 18, 2006
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Re: Probable explanation for Ipod Touch LCD deficiencies
Posted:
Sep 16, 2007 4:44 PM
in response to: drvelocity
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So what they need to do is make it so they are one piece pretty much. I would have to say your correct about the coating. That probably would explain why it looks worse in certain lighting also I would Imagine. I checked out the touch today (Apple Store) and I didn't notice anything terrible, not like any of the pictures I've seen.
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