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Last Post
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Jul 27, 2006 11:05 AM
by: mmike70
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Posts:
9
Registered:
Jul 21, 2006
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Randomly Turns Off - Part 2
Posted:
Jul 26, 2006 8:17 AM
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Well the original thread has been locked for some reason, probably causing too much stress on the servers.
Carry on posting your findings about the random turning off problem here, we need a solution!
MacBook Black 1GB RAM
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
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Posts:
38,260
From:
Silver Spring Maryland (USA)
Registered:
Dec 23, 2000
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Re: Randomly Turns Off - Part 2
Posted:
Jul 26, 2006 8:24 AM
in response to: webdwarf
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Random turning off is usually an indication of power management or energy saver issues such as:
1. Corruption in Energy Saver, power management cache and/or preferences.
2. Corruption in the directory which leads to inability of the machine to see number 1 all the time.
3. Hard disk issues which can lead to 1 and 2.
4. Power cord fraying.
5. Internal or power brick power supply failing.
6. Electricity issues with the outlet used. An APC battery backup surge protector with an a current battery installed would help.
7. Battery failing because of heat or warranty related issue.
My suggestion is if you are having random shut offs, is to back up your data, as my FAQ explains:
http://www.macmaps.com/backup.html
Run the hardware test that came with your machine's restore disks.
If anything is detected, or you suspect warping of your battery, or you've made sure neither of these articles applies to your machine overheating:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303848
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=30612
Then take it to an authorized Apple service center to have it looked at. Especially do this, if it is apparently happening right after an erase and install and no third party peripherals are connected.
iMac G5-1.8 (1st Gen)/PB G4 17" 3rd Gen 1.5 Ghz/iMac G4 OS 9/RCN
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
EyeTV 200, Olympus C-700, Epson P-R220, iSight, Airport Extreme, 5th Gen iPod
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Posts:
9
Registered:
Jul 21, 2006
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Re: Randomly Turns Off - Part 2
Posted:
Jul 26, 2006 8:30 AM
in response to: a brody
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We've gone through all of that, this is just a continuation from another thread with 622 replies and 22,063 views.
It seems that that the problem is in the logic board, but some people are reporting more shutdowns shortly after having theirs replaced.
Mine is currently away being replaced as we speak, I just hope the problem doesn't come back again.
Good advice on the backup though, I did that as soon as I realised what was happening. The problem seems to get worse over time, so if you are experiencing troubles now, make sure you back up while your computer will stay on long enough.
MacBook Black 1GB RAM
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
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Posts:
7
Registered:
May 25, 2005
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Re: Randomly Turns Off - Part 2
Posted:
Jul 26, 2006 8:36 AM
in response to: webdwarf
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This is very good advice. Actually people should do this all the time anyway.
I use SuperDuper and an external Firewire drive. I partitioned the drive so that it matches the size of my laptop harddrive. I call the partition 'clone' and then use SuperDuper at least once a week to make a clone.
Less often I burn DVD's of key data.
Using backup or a fileshare is also a good idea for things that change more often.
I am very happy I have that backup because the support folks asked me to re-install the OS and I never was able to finish it. My machine would shut-down before ever finishing the OS install.
Thanks to SuperDuper and the external drive I can boot off the drive if need be.
Now my machine is off for repair. I am hopeful that Apple will take care of whatever the issue is.
Macbook Black
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
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Posts:
38,260
From:
Silver Spring Maryland (USA)
Registered:
Dec 23, 2000
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Re: Randomly Turns Off - Part 2
Posted:
Jul 26, 2006 8:37 AM
in response to: webdwarf
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Well logic board problems need to be addressed with AppleCare directly. And if you are getting multiple returned machines with the issue not addressed after multiple repairs or are getting a very long repair period run up the ladder at AppleCare with a case number until they agree to send you a replacement machine. That's the way I usually handle repair issues such as this.
iMac G5-1.8 (1st Gen)/PB G4 17" 3rd Gen 1.5 Ghz/iMac G4 OS 9/RCN
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
EyeTV 200, Olympus C-700, Epson P-R220, iSight, Airport Extreme, 5th Gen iPod
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Posts:
9
Registered:
Jul 21, 2006
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Re: Randomly Turns Off - Part 2
Posted:
Jul 26, 2006 8:42 AM
in response to: a brody
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I probably should have called AppleCare first as I'm still within the 90 days. However I'm location in Australia and we don't have any Apple Stores here as far as I know, so I thought the quickest solution would be to take it back to the place of purchase. They have been very helpful and said I should have my laptop back within 7 days.
If the problem does occur again when I get the machine back, I will be calling Apple first to see what they can do for me.
MacBook Black 1GB RAM
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
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Posts:
20
Registered:
Feb 18, 2006
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Re: Randomly Turns Off - Part 2
Posted:
Jul 26, 2006 8:48 AM
in response to: webdwarf
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I too am among the many users who have a MacBook in repair for this issue. The part is on hold. It's been nearly 2 weeks now & this is my work computer. I could not even back it up due to the shutting down problem.
I am very frustrated by this whole thing. I am on the phone with Apple Care (ya, right) right now & am getting no where. I have asked for a replacement or for a refund, and they say that is just not possible. All I want is my money back so I can buy a machine that works.
Where do we go from here???
MacBook
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
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Posts:
38,260
From:
Silver Spring Maryland (USA)
Registered:
Dec 23, 2000
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Re: Randomly Turns Off - Part 2
Posted:
Jul 26, 2006 9:30 AM
in response to: frjps
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frjps,
That's what I mean by going up the ladder, get a case number from the AppleCare person, and then ask to speak to a supervisor. If you aren't able to get one, call back. Sometimes there are people who just speak from a script, while other times there are people who actually listen. I've had both, and I know it can be disconcerting, but Apple's support is still rated the best in the PC industry. Don't let one bad call to AppleCare deter you.
iMac G5-1.8 (1st Gen)/PB G4 17" 3rd Gen 1.5 Ghz/iMac G4 OS 9/RCN
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
EyeTV 200, Olympus C-700, Epson P-R220, iSight, Airport Extreme, 5th Gen iPod
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Posts:
21
Registered:
Jul 26, 2006
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Re: Randomly Turns Off - Part 2
Posted:
Jul 26, 2006 1:26 PM
in response to: webdwarf
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My MB has been at the repair center for the past two weeks. The logic board is replaced but now it is waiting for the plastic/bezel (!!!!).
If anyone has had the logic board replaced, could you please describe your account and how the MB is now running, to the rest of us? I'm curious.
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Posts:
18
Registered:
May 16, 2006
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Re: Randomly Turns Off - Part 2
Posted:
Jul 26, 2006 1:32 PM
in response to: webdwarf
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I had the same problem on a week 24 MacBook, got it picked up by TNT, and a new MacBook should be on its way.
::
::MY CRASHBOOK EXPERIENCES AND CONSIDERATIONS::
::
I was never able to reproduce the shutoffs in "safe mode". And with the battery detached it seemed almost stable: I only had shutoffs when transferring backups to a firewire hdd. Also is seemed OS independent: happened in OS X, and when running hardware test from DVD or in Ubuntu from CD.
When I think about it, the shutoffs started the same day og the day after I compiled some programs with darwinports (dia, gnumeric, nedit and dependencies). I also ran some sequence alignment (mafft). They are all heavy tasks. Could this have triggered it? And could it be that ALL MacBooks will start randomly shutting off eventually once you have done some (heavy) compiling on them. I sure hope no
t!
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::TESTING IF A NEW MACBOOK SUFFERS FROM THE PROBLEM?::
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It seems that in most cases (all?) this started happening after a week or more. But the question is, could the fault have been discovered the first day by putting it through some intensive tests? Would "yes > /dev/null & yes > /dev/null" reveal it right away? Or is there another sure test?
I consider it important to be able to quickly determine whether a brand new MacBook has the problems as it can be catastrophic starting to rely on the machine if ends up dead after a few weeks (14 days+).
::
::SOMEONE, PLEASE CREATE A CRASHBOOK WIKI::
::
This thread is getting very long and takes forever to load, so it would be really useful if someone could create a wiki or something summing up the important points and discoveries. This site "http://racr.free.fr" (already mentioned by someone else) seems like a good idea, but unfortunately it has not been updated since I first discovered it. So a wiki not depending on only one persons time and effort would be nice. Anyone up for the challenge of starting it? 
Crashbook 1.83GHz (now picked up; waiting for the replacement) Mac OS X (10.4.7)
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Posts:
38,260
From:
Silver Spring Maryland (USA)
Registered:
Dec 23, 2000
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Re: Randomly Turns Off - Part 2
Posted:
Jul 26, 2006 1:46 PM
in response to: Kasper Nielsen
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Kasper,
Bad or loose RAM could be an issue for some who are seeing problems with heavy processing activity. I would start a new topic thread for your problem so someone can help isolate it. Click on the Post New Topic link here:
http://discussions.apple.com/forum.jspa?forumID=1167&start=0
Especially if you are getting a four language screen, that is one of the most common symptoms of bad or loose RAM, known as a kernel panic as my FAQ explains here:
http://www.macmaps.com/kernelpanic.html
It may be that the code you are trying to write has a bug in it that the kernel just simply does not like. The fact the issues are avoided in the safe mode for you speaks louder to the possibility it is kernel related what you are writing about.
iMac G5-1.8 (1st Gen)/PB G4 17" 3rd Gen 1.5 Ghz/iMac G4 OS 9/RCN
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
EyeTV 200, Olympus C-700, Epson P-R220, iSight, Airport Extreme, 5th Gen iPod
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Posts:
18
Registered:
May 16, 2006
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Re: Randomly Turns Off - Part 2
Posted:
Jul 26, 2006 1:57 PM
in response to: a brody
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a brody,
Thanks for your reply. I probably should have mentioned that tried all those tricks: Resetting PMU and PRAM, and reseating the RAM. The problems did not occur during the compiling, but at some later point. I just mentioned it, because I see it as a possibility that CPU and RAM intensive work could trigger the problem (that may possibly be a dormant/latent problem in ALL MacBooks, just waiting to be released - who knows?)
I thus see no point in starting a new thread, as the problem seems to be the same as everybody else is experiencing, and because the MacBook in question has now been picked up by TNT on behalf of Apple.
But thanks again for your reply. Sorry, if I was unclear before.
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Posts:
11
Registered:
Jul 7, 2006
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Re: Randomly Turns Off - Part 2
Posted:
Jul 26, 2006 2:04 PM
in response to: webdwarf
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I bought my white MacBook in May and it is a week 19 production. My MacBook was one of th dirty books and I have already sent it in for repair once. Unfortunately, the trackpad button has become dirty now? But all of a sudden about a week ago, my MacBook started crashing... I called up AppleCare today, and the guy told me that I had faulty heat sensors on my MacBook and/or my heat sinks were not properly applied... So I am getting a box tommorow. He assured me that there was not a backup in the repair shop, but I somehow do not beleive this with all of the posts I have read about this issue. I tried mostly everything to fix my problem(re-installing factory RAM, re-booting computer in 10.4.6, running my computer on the batter, resetting the PMU) This is very dissapointing, because I am going off to college in a month and now I have a laptop that is unstable, which is a little frightening. Also, does anyone know that if Apple fixes the problem later down the road, if not still covered under the new computer warranty, if Apple will replace faulty MacBook (whatevers are making these computers into lemons) for free? Or should I extend my AppleCare for sure?
MB 2GHz White 2GB RAM
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
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Posts:
38,260
From:
Silver Spring Maryland (USA)
Registered:
Dec 23, 2000
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Re: Randomly Turns Off - Part 2
Posted:
Jul 26, 2006 3:08 PM
in response to: Kasper Nielsen
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I do see a point in starting a new thread. Despite the fact the problem may appear to be the same, as you can see there are at least 7 separate causes which may cause it to happen. Here they are again, in case you don't wish to scroll up to see them:
1. Corruption in Energy Saver, power management cache and/or preferences.
2. Corruption in the directory which leads to inability of the machine to see number 1 all the time.
3. Hard disk issues which can lead to 1 and 2.
4. Power cord fraying.
5. Internal or power brick power supply failing.
6. Electricity issues with the outlet used. An APC battery backup surge protector with an a current battery installed would help.
7. Battery failing because of heat or warranty related issue.
The only way we can isolate these problems is in their own thread. Trying to isolate 7 potential problems in one thread is going to make it abnormally long and hard to follow.
iMac G5-1.8 (1st Gen)/PB G4 17" 3rd Gen 1.5 Ghz/iMac G4 OS 9/RCN
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
EyeTV 200, Olympus C-700, Epson P-R220, iSight, Airport Extreme, 5th Gen iPod
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Posts:
38,260
From:
Silver Spring Maryland (USA)
Registered:
Dec 23, 2000
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Re: Randomly Turns Off - Part 2
Posted:
Jul 26, 2006 3:10 PM
in response to: Winst
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Winst,
Please start a new topic thread so someone can isolate the issue for you.
Click on Post New Topic here:
http://discussions.apple.com/forum.jspa?forumID=1167&start=0
With at least seven possible causes, there is no way it is going to be easy to follow what is going on here if we all tried to clump it in one thread.
iMac G5-1.8 (1st Gen)/PB G4 17" 3rd Gen 1.5 Ghz/iMac G4 OS 9/RCN
Mac OS X (10.4.7)
EyeTV 200, Olympus C-700, Epson P-R220, iSight, Airport Extreme, 5th Gen iPod
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