Back up my entire hard drive EXCLUDING the Sonoma OS?

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Level 1

8 points

Back up my entire hard drive EXCLUDING the Sonoma OS?

Hi there. I have been trying to understand how to downgrade from Sonoma to Ventura on my 27" 2019 imac (Intel). It seems like the best option for me right now. I have found these instructions and think I'm ready to give it a try. Voila, I've stumbled at the first block. I need to backup my hard drive EXCLUDING the Sonoma OS. I've looked at CCC and that's bamboozled me! I have been going in circles and just don't know what to do. I wish that Apple would make this a lot easier than it is. So, can anyone give me clear instructions on how to back up and exclude Sonoma? I have a TM backup but it includes Sonoma. I had to make a new backup yesterday because I learned that my TM external drive had errors so my older TM backups are gone. So, I used disk utility to erase and repair that hard disk, everything seems fine. I've purchased a new external hard disk to backup my hard drive to (excluding Sonoma) and I don't know how to do the latter. Can anyone help me? PS, Googling "how to backup my imac's hard disk excluding the operating system" hasn't helped me. If I can make a time machine backup that excludes the Sonoma OS and that will work, what files do I specifically need to exclude? Please be kind, I am not an expert user, as I'm sure is evident.

This should be so much easier than it is. Thank you to any and all.

iMac 27″, macOS 10.13

Posted on Apr 29, 2024 10:35 PM

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Answer 1

Niel

Level 10

727,337 points

Apr 29, 2024 10:43 PM in response to 21jabuka

Time Machine automatically excludes the OS in Big Sur and newer. If it won't work for you(possibly because of configuration files in a format Ventura can't understand), drag-copy your home folder to the external drive and manually restore files as needed.

(252803)

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Answer 2

May 1, 2024 6:38 AM in response to 21jabuka

> mail. I downloaded my backup from carbon copy cloner

Try this: first delete ~/Library/Mail folder (I understand all your mail is in the backup). Reboot (just in case). You can reveal ~/Library folder by pressing Option-key while in Finder > Go > Library.

Then copy from the Carbon Copy Cloner backup disk /Users/your_home_folder/Library/Mail folder to the Desktop (or any other local folder). You can reveal that /Library folder by pressing Shift-Command-. (that is a period at the end).

Then in Mail.app > File > Import Mailboxes... > Apple Mail > choose that copied Mail folder > choose all Items.

Then on the left-hand-side under "On My Mac" > Import, ..., look for and move "Local" and all mailboxes inside it up under "On My Mac". Right-click and you might delete "Import" folder (it has gmail mailboxes that are online). YMMV.

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Answer 3

PRP_53

Level 10

85,405 points

Apr 30, 2024 1:50 AM in response to 21jabuka

Part 1 of 2

Time Machine Backup Utility starting in macOS 11 Big Sur and above will only backup the User Account ( Home Folder ) of the computer.

Whatever is in your Home Folder now will be backed up.

It does Not Backup or Contain a Full and Working copy of the Operating System.

Have made Bootable Installer for just about every version of macOS since macOS 10.13 High Sierra and above.

The instructions from Apple on creating such a Bootable Installer has worked each time for me including various versions of Sonoma and Ventura

The command is predicated on the Full Version ( about 12.xx GB ) of the " Install Ventura Application " is located in the Applications folder of this computer

Anywhere else and the command will fail

One may consider going into Setting >> Privacy & Security >> Full Disc Access and adding Terminal to have Full Access

Terminal command I have used successfully

sudo /Applications/Install\ macOS\ Ventura.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/MyVolume

The Destination Drive needs to be at least 16 GB Capacity and used Solely for this purpose

Suggest the drive should be Directly Connected to the computer ( Not via a USB HUB )

Part 2 of 2

This method will WIPE ALL Data and there is No DATA Recovery - Period.

>> Only works on Intel Based Apple Computer <<

To perform this action will require booting from a Bootable Installer.

The Bootable Installer can Only be performed on an Apple Computer

This will have to be performed from a Qualifying Computer to run the version of macOS to be made on the Bootable Installer.

Example : Bootable Installer of Ventura would have to be done on a computer that Qualifies to run Ventura.

Shutdown computer and disconnect all external drive Except the newly created Bootable Installer.

Restart and immediately hold the OPTION key until the Startup Manager appears and choose the USB Drive.

It will present options >> Disk Utilities >> View >> View ALL attached Drives.

Choose the Upper Most Drive ( not the volumes indented and list below ).

The drive normally is called Apple Media or Apple SSD - that is the drive to Erase and format as APFS with the GUID Partition Map.

Once that is done >> backup out of Disk Utilities and choose install macOS.

Follow the prompts and it may automatically reboot several time.

Upon a final reboot - Setup Assist will present with the newer version of macOS.

You can use Setup Asset and point it to the Time Machine Backup Drive. This is a One Time offer. Thereafter you will need to use Migration Assist

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Answer 4

21jabuka Author

Level 1

8 points

Apr 29, 2024 11:54 PM in response to Niel

Hi Niel

Thank you very much for your reply. I'm sorry but I don't quite understand.

Does my Home folder hold absolutely everything excluding the operating system? i.e. Will I lose "key chain" information etc. or other valuable bits that I need? I know that my questions are basic but there are hugs gaps in how I understand how this all works and I know it shows.

The instructions to downgrade from Sonoma to Ventura state that you can't backup from TM because you'll just be over-riding Ventura again. Are you saying that this is incorrect and I'm safe to just back up from TM? i.e. If I can magically get Ventura onto my harddrive, can I just backup from my TM which only holds backups with Sonoma? I am so confused.

To make matters worse, I followed Apple's instructions to create a bootable installer of Ventura and it didn't work. After I enter the Terminal command for Ventura OS (sudo /Applications/Install\ macOS\ Ventura.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/MyVolume) and replace "MyVolume" with the name of the flash drive on which want to copy Ventura OS, I instead get the following sudo: /Applications/Install macOS Ventura.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia: command not found

Any ideas? I'm definitely using the correct versions etc. and my imac is 27" 2019 Intel and still nothing. I'm currently running Sonoma 14.4.1 and am desperate to downgrade back to Ventura.

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Answer 5

21jabuka Author

Level 1

8 points

May 2, 2024 3:04 PM in response to Matti Haveri

Hi Matti

Thank you for your reply. It looks like I'm in a pickle regarding my photos. As it stands, it looks like I'll have to try option B.

Just to clarify a few things that I don't think I made clear.

Both the TM and CCC backups are in Sonoma
The 3rd external disk is not really an "official" backup. It's a dragged and dropped copy of my entire home folder under Sonoma. I'm not sure if that qualifies as a backup.
I don't have icloud set up yet. I'm suspicious of the cloud but it seems I'm going to have to get over that.
I have an ipad mini running OS 17. I have a plug in hub for it. I tried plugging in the hub and my 3rd backup to it but there's no way of getting my ipad to communicate with this 3rd hard drive. I was hoping that I could get the photos on my photos app on the ipad and then "magically" they would be recognized by Ventura when I imported them back into my Ventura imac. Thoughts?

Thank you.

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Answer 6

21jabuka Author

Level 1

8 points

May 1, 2024 4:36 AM in response to 21jabuka

Well, I successfully loaded Ventura onto my imac and it all works beautifully ... except ... for my mail. I downloaded my backup from carbon copy cloner. so far it looks like everything is there. Mail will not open. I get the following below. Obviously, I went through all of this pain to get rid of Sonoma. I desperate need my mailboxes saved on my imac. What can I do. I am very in the dark about the mail app. Mailboxes frighten me. Please help if you can?

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Answer 7

21jabuka Author

Level 1

8 points

May 2, 2024 1:04 AM in response to 21jabuka

My imac now running with speed and no hiccups, except for the following. Matti Haveri helped me with my Mail problem as you can see below. So relieved.

Now, I can't access my Photos at all. Please refer to screen shot below. Same seems to be with Music, Audiobooks, Podcasts but right now I'm taking it one problem at a time.

I read on Apple Support that you should not monkey with the Photos library in Finder. Doomed if you do. Instead to have to export from the source. I tried this in my CCC back up and my TM back up and no matter how I tried, there was no EXPORT option.

Can anyone help me with this? Again I am very grateful for any help. I really do not want to have to reload Sonoma. I've come too far ...

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Answer 8

21jabuka Author

Level 1

8 points

Apr 30, 2024 4:55 PM in response to Niel

Thank you both for replying and trying to help me.

Newsflash: I WAS able to create the bootable installer. I failed to follow the instructions to the precise letter so it was my fault. Apple off the hook for now. ha ha

So, I'll go ahead and reload Ventura on my imac (thus wiping my hard drive) and see if it gets over written with Sonoma by TM. If it doesn't, the article is wrong. I'll let you guys know if it worked or if I just defeated the purpose of the entire exercise. I am very curious as to how there can be two very opposit views about how to go about downgrading from Sonoma to Ventura using TM.

Kind Regards

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Answer 9

21jabuka Author

Level 1

8 points

May 2, 2024 12:51 AM in response to PRP_53

Hi PRP

Thank you for your reply. I successfully have Ventura up and running. It seems that none of my mail, photos, music, podcast, itunes libraries have not migrated over. I get messages like, these files were created on a newer version of mail, photos, music etc. Then I'm prompted to upgraded to a newer version of the app or newer OS. This is what I completely want to avoid.

I first noticed it with mail as posted a question further below which Matti Haveri helped me with. My Mail app seems to be up and running and all there. I haven't had the time to go through it thoroughly to see if I'm missing stuff.

So ... I'm going to post another question in this "thread?" about what to do about the Photos problem.

This has not panned out as well as I'd hoped. I must say that my imac runs beautifully now, I just can't see my photos, music, audiobooks, podcasts etc. Sigh. It's a struggle.

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Answer 10

21jabuka Author

Level 1

8 points

May 2, 2024 12:55 AM in response to Matti Haveri

Hi Matti

Thank you for your reply and help. It seems to have worked! It looks like everything is there but I'll need to take more time to check thoroughly. At least I can get mail and check my sent mail and any mail that I stored "on my mac" seemed to me there. I dont' think my Archived emails are there but I can't worry about that now.

I am grateful for you instructions. Now! I am going to post another question in relations to my Sonoma to Ventura downgrade. It seems that I can't see my other libraries. I'll post it in this thread.

Kind regards

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Answer 11

May 2, 2024 1:11 AM in response to 21jabuka

> Photos

Older macOS Photos does not read the library if a newer macOS Photos has accessed it.

The options to downgrade Photos are:

a) in the newer macOS export images and movies out as "originals with XMP sidecars" and join the updated metadata to the files with GraphicConverter (if you have done no metadata edits inside Photos, you can omit the XMP stuff). Or just export the images although this is slightly lossy.

b) in the newer macOS sync the Photos library to iCloud Photos and in the older macOS sync it.

c) If you no longer can boot or restore the newer bootable macOS, then it gets messy. You could ctrl-click and open the Photos library package and grab the photos from there (make a backup of the library so you do not corrupt it if you happen to need it later!). But the filenames there are gibberish and it is really messy to sort them out.

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Answer 12

21jabuka Author

Level 1

8 points

May 2, 2024 3:27 PM in response to Matti Haveri

Hi Matti

One more thing. I tried to add this as an update to my most recent reply to you but it wouldn't work. so here's the other thing I wanted to add.

PROBLEM WITH THE ICLOUD OPTION. I currently have the photos on my desktop exactly how I found them on my back up. They aren't in a folder per se, the "file" is called "photoslibrary.photoslibrary". Sigh. So when I turned on my icloud, the option was to upload my photos library to the photos library in the cloud. So you see, there is nothing in my photos library on my Ventura imac because I wouldn't be uploading them if they were in there in the first place. Can I upload photoslibrary.photoslibrary from my desktop to the icloud and into the Photos icloud. I don't want to end up with them sitting on the cloud and not in the photos library because then I can't import them into Photos on my imac. Does my question make sense?

Thank you again for you help.

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Answer 13

steve626

Level 6

10,127 points

May 2, 2024 7:31 PM in response to 21jabuka

You can definitely recover your photos.

Locate your previous Sonoma Photos Library file (I think you said it was on your desktop).

Right click that file. It is actually a special type of folder, not an ordinary file. Select "Show Package Contents."

Some folders will be shown. Look for the largest one, it has your original image files. Usually it is called "originals." It could also be called "masters" if it came from a very old library.

Now you want to make a copy of that "originals" folder. You hold down the option key and drag that "original" folder to somewhere else on your Desktop, or into your Pictures folder. It should place a copy (also called "originals") where you drag it to.

Now open Photos. In the File menu select Import ... and direct it to that copy of the "originals" folder. Import that entire folder. If this works as it has for me, you have imported all your image files from that previous Sonoma library into your current one under Ventura. This won't preserve albums or various other tags or labels, but all the photos should be there.

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Answer 14

May 2, 2024 9:27 PM in response to 21jabuka

> the "file" is called "photoslibrary.photoslibrary"

You must boot to Sonoma, open that library with Sonoma's Photos.app (Option-launch Photos and select the desired library), and sync it to iCloud Photos (might take some time). Then boot to Ventura and sync its Photos with iCloud Photos. That is the cleanest way but might take some $$ if your library does not fit to the free iCloud account.

Or as steve626 described, just grab the images and movies from the photoslibrary.photoslibrary package. It does not preserve metadata edits or other info you might have done in Sonoma, but the actual images are there for you to clean up.

...why do you want to downgrade from Sonoma?

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Answer 15

Niel

Level 10

727,337 points

May 1, 2024 6:27 AM in response to 21jabuka

Restore the Mail files from a backup created before upgrading to Sonoma and/or temporarily put Sonoma on an external drive and export any remaining messages.

(252834)

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