MATT: You are chatting with Matt. Your case number is 101021209809. System Message Please hold while your chat is being transferred. Hi, my name is Matt. It'll be just a moment while I review the comments you provided. Hey Jerome, how are you today? ME: good, ty MATT: Glad to hear you are well. I will be more than happy to help with this issue today. Your case number is 101021209809, as a Senior Advisor, I will be handling this case from here for the time being. ME: sounds good MATT: 6:44 PM So I do need to start off by saying that Audible is an Amazon company and produce content independently of Apple - we have our own competing audiobook platform as it happens. There is a very strong possibility that the problem is with the Audible content itself (and i’m not denigrating the platform, just resubscribed to it myself last night believe it or not - big fan). What we need to do is make sure there isn’t a problem with the files stored in the Books app at the moment. The best way to do that would be to redownload the audiobooks to the Books app and then check to see whether or not the chapters and other organization appears. ME: already checked no problem with the ones I chcked MATT: Already checked what, just so we’re both on the same page? ME: went to the Mac Books app to verify that I see chapters MATT: Have you resynced the books to the iPod nano? unsynced and synced back specifically ME: let me do that I'll remove all the books in the iPod Nano, select a couple and see if the chapters reappear, rt? MATT: 6:50 PM Sounds like a plan! 6:53 PM ME: removed all books verified that they were all gone from my iPod added 2 books included the one I'm reading and one that I just redownloaded from Audible MATT: Let me know if the chapters have returned! nope but it did remember where I stopped on the book I was reading MATT: 6:56 PM I see. As the content isn’t produced by Apple, the change to the content is going to be something that has changed on Audible’s side. The iPod Nano is older and Audible may have changed the way they set categories to a point where it is no longer compatible with those kind of devices. You should reach out to Audible and discuss this issue with them - that way they can check if there is an issue on their side or let you know whether any changes have been made that would affect how an iPod Nano plays their content. https://www.audible.com/contactus?pf_rd_p=b4cdc6fc-721f-49cb-9519-f4a17328922e&pf_rd_r=W0HP0RFM78V7JM7GQXAS&ref=a_adblbests_b1_desktop_footer_column_1_5 https://www.audible.com/contactus?pf_rd_p=b4cdc6fc-721f-49cb-9519-f4a17328922e&pf_rd_r=W0HP0RFM78V7JM7GQXAS&ref=a_adblbests_b1_desktop_footer_column_1_5 ME: 6:58 PM hmmm, clearly this was working before and has been working for the past 5 or 10 years I have had that iPod Nano, the ONLY difference is the new version of MacOS nothing else has changed it's an OS issue MATT: So your Mac runs the files fine It’s only when the files are transferred to an older device that the feature stops working. ME: it must be doing something to the audio files before it does the sync'ing with the iPod correct MATT: Over time, technology changes. Older devices often lose some features if the code that allows those features to work does not work on an older device. I am speculating here as I don’t know whether or not this is definitely the case - but it’s likely. However, regardless of all of this the files themselves are provided by Audible, which means Audible control how they behave. If the file stops behaving in the same way when transferred to something else but didn’t before, a change has been made somewhere - we can agree on that, right? I’m assuming your iPod hasn’t been updated, and the Mac, while updated, still plays the files as expected. Would it not be reasonable to imagine that Audible make some changes on their side within a 5 year period, Jerome? Or at least, is it not reasonable to check to see if they have ME: of course but that's not the case here since again the only change in the whole audible+Mac+MacOs+iPod is the new version of the MacOS the files weren't redownloaded from audible so no change there MATT: Try redownloading them then ME: where the audible files converted as part of the OS upgrade? MATT: As we needed to do that before resyncing No An OS upgrade can’t update non MacOS related files ME: does the OS inject something to the audible file before the sync such as the chapter and the last read position? MATT: There is literally no possible circumstance where that can happen - the only thing that happens when a device is synced is a data flow. What you put in comes out the other side, or on the other device in this case. Have you deleted the originals from your Mac and tried to resync those? It’s possible the files on the Mac have an issue but that seems less likely given that chapters work on the Mac directly. However, it is still worth us redownloading the files to make sure. ME: I tried to redownload a book but I didn't try to delete it first let me try that MATT: Thanks! ME: still downloading... :-( 450MB 30 secs left ... MATT: Thanks for your patience. ME: loading in Books chapter available in the Books app trying to sync sync'ing... no luck same ONE 7hr chapter :-( MATT: If the file is still not recognizing chapter breaks an alternative may be to pause and play when you return to the file. If I had to make an educated guess at what is happening here it’s probably a case of the iPod not understanding the chapter breaks in the file. That would be something Audible have to resolve, by making the chapter breaks something the iPod can understand and make use of again. Another alternative may be a more recent device - iPod Touches are inexpensive and run the Audible app directly. I use it on all my iOS devices. ME: the iPod Nano 6th generation is the BEST mp3 player even created, small with touch I still think if the OS can you at least log it as a bug for your dev team MATT: It is not the OS Jerome. You could consider using the Nano for music and looking into a dedicated device more compatibile with your audiobooks, and the iPod nano can still be used, you’d just have to use the pause feature rather than chapter navigation. ME: I'll try on my wife Mac to see if she has the problem since she's hasn't upgraded to Catalina MATT: I am sorry for the inconvenience. ME: would that prove my point that the OS is the issue? MATT: No, and Apple isn’t in a position to do anything to troubleshoot problems with audiobook content sold by an audiobook provider that competes directly with us. ME: with all due respect that's BS.... you are basically sabotaging the competition by restricting features that have worked for 10yrs not cool Apple MATT: We would be able to troubleshoot issues with the Audiobook content we produce and sell as that’s what we’re trained to support. Audible, conversely, are the experts in the content they produce so it would be worth you contacting them - if they’re unaware of the issue, they may be able to fix it, or they may be able to provide further explanation on why this is happening. ME: u r not hearing my point the ONLY thing that I have changed is upgrading to Catalina, period nothing else has changed MATT: I am hearing your point. Upgrading your operating system would not change the way the files behave. If it did, you would see the files behave in the same way as they do on your iPod Nano in the Books app on your Mac. The problem here is the fact that the chapter information is something the iPod cannot understand (which makes it read as a single audio file), or because the data is being stripped out when removed. I do sympathize with your situation but Apple isn’t able to edit the content that belongs to another company (to do so would be a massive copyright violation in fact) and even if we could, Audible would be none too happy about it. Audible would need to make the changes to their content themselves but need to be told there is an issue so they know they have to do something. IF the issue isn’t something a change on their side can resolve This is a compatibility issue with the iPod and so you would have to forego use of chapters or look into an inexpensive device that supports them. An iPod nano could be picked up inexpensively, even used, and that supports the Audible app fully which would resolve all of these issues for you. ME: just curious how the the last position read in the book saved? and passed from the Mac to the iPod and vice versa? either the file is modified or there's some additional meta data passed along if it's in the file itself, the OS does modifies the file MATT: What model iPod nano do you have? ME: 6th generation MATT: As the iPod nano isn’t as sophisticated a device as an iPod touch or Mac the level of data it can see is going to be limited. ME: all I'm asking is for the OS not to break my iPod what was done here "Improves the reliability of syncing books and audiobooks to your iPad or iPhone through the Finder" as part of macOS Catalina 10.15.2 (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210642#macos10152) MATT: I am sorry that a feature you made use of is no longer compatible. Over time, technology changes and there is always a trade off between compatibility (as it imposes a performance cost) and innovation. ME: is there a chance your dev team might take a look at it? I've been a s/w engineer for 25+ years, I get that but NOT in this case MATT:Sometimes it’s no longer feasible to maintain compatibility in the same way with older devices. The good news here is that you can still use the iPod for audiobooks, but a newer device is required to use a richer feature set. I am sorry for the inconvenience caused. ME: check out https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250815165?answerId=251568196022#251568196022 MATT: To recap: the iPod is not compatible in the same way with your Audiobooks as before. I strongly recommend contacting Audible as they may have additional troubleshooting you can perform on their content and services. Should the issue not be able to be resolved the best alternative (if it were me, anyway) would be to look into an inexpensive device like an iPod Touch which runs the Audible app. This is the final response you will receive on this matter. Are there any other technical concerns you would like to address today? ME: ppl discuss how the Book app had issue and it was fixed I bet that's in the same area of the code that a bug was introduced MATT: The forum post refers to devices that use the iOS version of the Books app, which the iPod Nano can’t run. the iPod Nano doesn’t even run iOS or a mach kernel ME: my recap: the new version of Mac OS (Catalina) either purposely or unintentionally broke a feature that had been working for ~10 years, on its own hardware and is unwilling to fix it So while the issue is similar, it is different, and at this time as the content is not something Apple produced you need to contact Audible for further assistance. I'm tired I'll post this to the Apple discussion to see what people think of it and maybe that will get someone to open a ticket to fix it. thank you for your time MATT: Thank you for contacting Apple. If there is nothing else I can assist with, I am going to end our chat. Please enjoy the rest of your day.