1 2 3 Previous Next 44 Replies Latest reply: Nov 25, 2009 12:18 PM by corrytonapple Go to original post
  • 30. Re: The Great Disc Hunt
    Don Archibald Level 10 Level 10 (101,155 points)
    Hi, corrytonapple -

    Is there a terminal code I could use?


    The only thing available before an OS has loaded that could be construed as a 'terminal' type function is Open Firmware, which is engaged by holding down the Command-Option-O-F keys siultaneously from when the startup chimes sound. Open Firmware is a hardware-based command/instruction mode, which permits some settings to be made - hardware reset of NVRAM, for instance. However, I do not know of an Open Firmware command that allows the selection of a particular OS when more than one is available on a drive.

    There's some info about Open Firmware commands in this Apple KBase article -
    http://support.apple.com/kb/TA44318

    Caution - tinkering with Open Firmware commands is a good way to thoroughly bollix a machine. Since Open Firmware is a hardware-based system, undoing a mistake can be extremely difficult.

    Is there anything I can use as a bootable disk?


    An appropriate CD, OS 9 or OSX.

    An external firewire hard drive. Since the machine is capable of being a Target machine in a FwTDM config, it is also capable of firewire booting. However, the hard drive would need to have an OS on it valid for that machine.
    Article #HT2699 - FireWire Booting

    Are there no keyboard shortcuts that block OSX?


    Only the one Niel mentioned originally, Command-Option-Shift-Delete. That one is a hardware instruction to the Mac to ignore the OS designated in PRAM and to boot to the next OS it finds.

    Is the keyboard in use with that machine the one that originally came with it when it was new? If it is a 3rd-party (non-Apple) keyboard, some of those are not compliant with the Mac startup command key set.
  • 31. The Booting-up Challenge
    corrytonapple Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    I heard that an old ipod could be used as a bootable disk. Is that possible, and how do I do that?
  • 32. Re: The Booting-up Challenge
    Don Archibald Level 10 Level 10 (101,155 points)
    Hi, corrytonapple -

    An old iPod, one with a hard drive and a firewire 400 port, could be set to run as a firewire hard drive. In that mode it could be used as an external firewire drive, for data storage or even for booting.

    I've never owned one, so don't know the details of setting one up to do that.

    Caveats -

    1) To use it as a boot volume, the iPod would need to have an OS on it that is bootable by the machine to which it is connected.

    2) I understand (from other posts a while ago) that using an iPod for booting regularly or for an extended period is not recommended. The drive mechanism in those iPods was intended for intermittent use, not for long-term spinning such as a normal hard drive is designed to do; one of the issues is probably heat.
  • 33. Re: The Booting-up Challenge
    corrytonapple Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    I may look into doing that as a backup. I am getting an OS 9 CD too.
  • 34. Re: The Booting-up Challenge
    corrytonapple Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Getting a CD isn't easy. I'll try the firewire cable method in the meantime. I'll compare the two system folders and see what's missing.
  • 35. Re: The Booting-up Challenge
    ali brown Level 7 Level 7 (26,465 points)
    Hello Again corrytonapple,

    Also review My Reply in your other related Topic.

    ali b
  • 36. Re: Emac and OS 9
    Hiroto Level 5 Level 5 (5,025 points)
    Hello

    You may try the following Open Firmware command to boot Mac OS 9 (English version), provided OS9 and OSX reside in same partition and the machine is currently set to boot OSX from that partition.

    To get into Open Firmware command line interface, press Command-Option-O-F when starting up machine until Open Firmware command prompt appears on screen.

    Then type the following command carefully.

    boot hd:,System%20FolderMac%20OS%20ROM

    Note :
    • There're no spaces except for the one between 'boot' and 'hd'.
    • 'hd' is followed by a colon and a comma.
    • Boot file is System FolderMac OS ROM, where every space is replaced by %20.

    and press return to issue the command. It will boot OS9 hopefully.

    Once OS9 is booted, you must set the startup disk by Startup Disk control panel.
    (Since the command above does not modify any configuration variable in Open Firmware, you need to set the startup disk manually in OS9. Otherwise the machine will try to boot OSX again at the next startup time.)

    ---
    In case the command throws error and you're sure you have made no typo, then you'd need to specify the partition number. Something like this (which specifies the 9th partition) :

    boot hd:9,System%20FolderMac%20OS%20ROM


    To discover the correct partition number, type the following command :

    printenv boot-device


    Press return and you'll get something like the following output :

    boot-device mac-io/ata-4@1f000/@0:9,\:tbxi


    In this example, the 9 in '.../@0:9' is the partition number of current boot device.
    It may vary. Use the number actually returned in your environment.

    ---
    In case none of the above works, you can safely shut-down the machine by typing the command below and pressing return.

    shut-down


    Good luck,
    H

    Message was edited by: Hiroto (fixed typos)
  • 37. Re: Emac and OS 9
    corrytonapple Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Here's what I did.
    Imac:
    boot hd:,\System%20Folder\Mac%20OS%20ROM

    Result: Happy Imac, and then it just stayed there.
    Try to discover the correct partition number.

    Result: hd:,\\:tbxi (put together)
    Tried the above twice, waiting 15 minutes for anything to happen.

    Emac:
    boot hd:,\System%20Folder\Mac%20OS%20ROM

    Result: Happy Imac, and then it just stayed there.
    Try to discover the correct partition number.

    Result: boot-device mac-io/ata-4@1f000/@0:5,\\:tbxi (put together)
    boot hd:5,\System%20Folder\Mac%20OS%20ROM

    Result: Happy Imac, and then it just stayed there.
    Reset PRAM

    Result: Booted to OSX
    Then tried boot hd:,\System%20Folder\Mac%20OS%20ROM and it stated at the happy mac with no activity.
    Try to discover the correct partition number(again).

    Result: hd:,\\:tbxi (put together)
    -corrytonapple
  • 38. Re: Emac and OS 9
    Hiroto Level 5 Level 5 (5,025 points)
    Hello

    Hmm. Then it seems we need to actually bless the System Folder after all...

    The blessed folder's directory ID is stored in HFS+ volume header and Open Firmware nomally searches this directory for bootinfo file with file type 'tbxi', which is "Mac OS ROM" in OS9 and "BootX" in OSX.
    I thought specifing the full path to this file may suffice even if the blessed folder id is not properly set in volume header, but it seems to be wrong, at least as far as OS9 is concerned.

    So now we'd need to set the blessed folder id in HFS+ volume header (sector 2) and also set the boot blocks (sectors 0 & 1) properly in order to boot OS9. I would not try to do it in Open Firmware if possible at all.

    There's bless(8) command in OSX, that we may use. Two recipes here.
    One is for the case that you can boot the target machine in OSX single user mode.
    Another is for the case that you can set the target machine to target disk mode and use another OSX machine to modify the target.

    cf.
    bless(8)
    http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/m an8/bless.8.html

    Mac OS X: How to start up in single-user or verbose mode
    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1492



    ---
    • RECIPE 1
    Using target machine only, provided it can boot OSX in single user mode.

    1) Boot OSX in single user mode by holding down Command-S when starting up machine.

    2) Type the following command and press return to mount the root directory :

    mount -uw /


    3) Type the following command and press return to bless OS9 and set boot blocks :

    bless -folder9 "/System Folder" -bootBlockFile "/usr/share/misc/bootblockdata"

    or

    bless --folder9 "/System Folder" --bootBlockFile "/usr/share/misc/bootblockdata"


    *Note that it seems some versions of bless(8) require the first syntax and others the second.
    If the syntax is wrong, command won't run and error message will appear.

    4) Type the following command and press return to reboot the machine :

    reboot


    ---
    • RECIPE 2
    Using the target machine in Firewire Target Disk Mode and another rescuer machine with OSX installed.

    1) Boot the target machine in Firewire Target Disk Mode.
    Boot the rescue machine and connect the target machine to it via Firewire.

    2) Start Terminal.app in recuer machine, that is located at /Applications/Utilities/Terminal.app.

    3) Type the following command in Terminal's window and press return :

    sudo bless -folder9 "/Volumes/Mac HD/System Folder" -bootBlockFile "/usr/share/misc/bootblockdata"

    or

    sudo bless --folder9 "/Volumes/Mac HD/System Folder" --bootBlockFile "/usr/share/misc/bootblockdata"


    When requested, enter administrator's password and press return.

    *You need to change the name of the target volume, that is "Mac HD" in the above examples, to the real name.
    *Note that it seems some versions of bless(8) require the first syntax and others the second.
    If the syntax is wrong, command won't run and error message will appear.

    4) Disconnect and restart the target machine.



    Hope this may help,
    H
  • 39. Re: Emac and OS 9
    corrytonapple Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    I tried recipe one with the imac, and I got the same results. Would recipe two be about the same and give the same results?

    Message was edited by: corrytonapple
  • 40. Re: Emac and OS 9
    Hiroto Level 5 Level 5 (5,025 points)
    Hello

    You mean you have done the RECIPE 1 without seeing any errors and still have the machine freezing at happy mac icon?

    If so, I'd suspect something is broken in your volume.
    Since you can boot OSX in single user mode, try repairing the volume by fsck(8).

    To do that, boot OSX in single user mode and type the following command and press return :

    /sbin/fsck -fy


    Repeat running this command until you see the message saying the volume appears to be ok.

    cf.
    Resolve startup issues and perform disk maintenance with Disk Utility and fsck
    http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1417

    After verifying and/or repairing the volume, try RECIPE 1 from step 2) afresh.
    If this should not solve the problem for the machine to freeze at happy mac icon, I'd conclude your OS9 system is indeed damaged beyond repair.

    ---
    As for RECIPE 2, it can make difference especially when the rescuer's OSX system is more sound than the target's.

    Good luck,
    H
  • 41. Re: Emac and OS 9
    corrytonapple Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    It told me that it was all ok. I'll get the cable (hopefully) soon and test the other method. Also, Is the only other thing that qualifies as a bootable disc is a techtool applecare disc?
  • 42. Re: Emac and OS 9
    Hiroto Level 5 Level 5 (5,025 points)
    In case, I wish to elaborate on RECIPE2's step 4) as follows.

    4a) Unmount the target disk ("Mac HD" in this example) in rescuer OSX. To do it, 'eject' the disk in Finder.

    4b) Physically disconnect the target machine from rescuer machine and then restart the target machine in nomal (non target disk) mode.

    ---
    As for bootable disc for maintenance purpose, DiskWarrior 4.0's bootable CD can likely be used for your iMac G3 and eMac G4. (DiskWarrior 4.1 or later's bootable disc cannot be used for these models.) However, I'd guess DiskWarrior's bootable disc is designed to be used for DiskWarrior's own job and therefore it may not provide full command set of BSD subsystem, which include bless(8) etc.

    Also I think any version of OSX install disc that can boot your machine should include Disk Utility etc, which can be used for disk maintenance. If, by any chance, it also includes a software similar to Startup Disk Control Panel of OS9 installer disc to set the startup disk, that would be perfect for your need to set the machine to boot OS9 (provided that the installed OS9 system is sound and bootable).

    H
  • 43. Re: Emac and OS 9
    corrytonapple Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Solved. When it froze at the apple, I noticed it looked like a "mini version" of safe boot mode. I hit a key on the keyboard, and it acted like SBM. I typed:

    /sbin/fsck -fy

    Hit return. The HD came back good. Then:

    mount -uw /

    Finally:

    bless -folder9 "/system Folder"-bootBlockFile "/usr/share/misc/bootblockdata"

    I typed "reboot" then it gave me the "Happy Mac", "Welcome to OS 9", then the desktop. I'll just suck it up and register the emac. Thanks to all who helped.
    -corrytonapple

    Message was edited by: corrytonapple
  • 44. Re: Emac and OS 9
    corrytonapple Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    View my final message for solution.
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