1 2 Previous Next 18 Replies Latest reply: Feb 9, 2010 6:15 AM by Mark Spencer4
_Makra_ Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
Hi Folks,

I just started with Motion a few weeks ago.
After making a lot of rookie mistakes, I think I got the basics now.
Motion opened up a new world of working with videos for me.
But I reached a point, where playing around does not help any more.
I need some advise from a skilled Motion designer.


My question:
Generally - What are the limits of a Motion 4 project regarding size and complexity and how I can expand it.
In particular - How can I produce a video of my really big motion project.


My small problem:
When working in Motion, I have to watch the memory usage (I use "istat menus" for this).
When memory becomes almost used up, I save the project then close and re-open Motion.
In the meantime, I have a detailed knowledge of the actions that I should avoid to maximize
the time between the close & re-open actions.
This helps reducing Motion crashes. I think Motion has a bug with memory handling somehow.
Although working with Motion this way is exhausting, this is only my small problem.


My big problem:
Motion does not export (render) my project. I don't mind waiting 24 hours for the result, but there is no result.
Motion 4 always crashes after some time. Typically after 4 to 5 hours. The whole computer gets stuck,
the only thing I can do is recycle power. I can not show the result of my work. All I can do is blame "the software".
For this I need a solution, and I need it ASAP!


What I did so far:
I tried everything. Really…
I do not run any other software parallel with Motion. No Mail, no Safari, no nothing -> this helps a lot while editing !
Disabling render options motion blur, shadows, reflections and DOF helped in the beginning when the project was not finished.
Reducing quality helped in the beginning but I did not tried it again because the results are unusable.
Trashing preferences with "option-CMD Park+Ride" did not help.
Deleting the preference file did help making the software more responsive. Almost no beachballs after that.
Repairing permissions…. Checking filesystem… playing with preferences… nothing helped.

Then I was at a point, where I was mentally prepared for the ultimate step:
I wiped the hard-drive and installed Snow Leopard and FCP from the original DVDs.
Did not help. (BTW this takes a whole working day and half of the night).
Of course, I always apply the latest updates and patches.
Last night, I ordered a new iMAC (27", Quadcore, 8GB Ram) to be sure it is not a hardware defect.
Unfortunately its ETA is 2 weeks.
The machine I am actually using: 24" iMac 3,06MHz core2 duo with 4GB of RAM and GT130.

About my project:
length: 42 seconds
Format: 720p50
Contents: approximately 10 greenscreen videoclips 720p50 ( 10 to 20 seconds long) with Primate RT filter, 100 images (PDF), 500 rectangles.
Camera: one camera with 8 non-overlapping framing behaviors.
plugins: some filters from noise industries and FxFactory. No dubious untested 3-rd party plugins.


Untested ideas:
- Output parts of the project and assemble them in final cut. (I got this idea 1 second ago while writing this post). Anyone tried this?
- Single-stepping through the project and capturing a screenshot of every single frame (42*50 = 2100 oh my god!) Maybe by using a macro?
- Using a new computer with faster graphic-board and more RAM. As far as I know, Motion is a 32bit application and can not address more than 4 GByte of RAM. Also it will not use more than one CPU core. Will it help anyway?
- Installing some secret Pro-App beta-patches to fix Motion. Are there any? If so, how to get them?
- Searching for some hidden file that lists the filter, action or object that caused the last crash. Maybe I only have to rearrange or remove something to make it work perfectly.

Anyone out there who has experience with complex Motion-projects ?


Byebye and Tschüß
Manfred

iMac 24" 3.06 GHz 4 GByte memory, Mac OS X (10.6.2), FCP 7
  • 1. Re: Motion is constantly crashing when exporting a huge project
    Adam Scoffield Level 4 Level 4 (2,865 points)
    off the top of my head...


    sounds like a memory issue with maybe the computer or graphics card. You could try to reduce the memory footprint of some of the elements in the project. My first port of call would be the pdf's, are they very hi-rez but maybe dont need to be because you are scaling them down. if so prepare pre-scaled PNG's or PSD files and use those maybe. Have you tried putting the pdf's into a layer and turning on fixed resolution for that layer, that can help.

    I did have a problem with the primatte filter, where I had two of them on the same clip. It always crashed on output. I had to rebuild the layers by putting footage in layers and applying filters to different layers. Sometimes rebuilding can help.

    Breaking it down and re-compositing in fcp can help, but can be painful. But as your sequence is only 42 seconds long, you shouldnt have to really.

    hth

    adam
  • 2. Re: Motion is constantly crashing when exporting a huge project
    _Makra_ Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    Adam,

    you are right. Most of the PDF's are in the background - very small and always blurry because of DOF settings. I will transform them to low-res png files to save memory space.
    I use all PDFs MOVs and everything inside dropbox HD elements which automatically stretch/scale the PDFs to make it easier to replace them. Could this also need a lot of RAM?

    Do you think it is also worth trimming the 720p50 mov files or is the data outside the in and out points not loaded into memory anyway?

    What is this "clone" functionality made for? Can this also save memory when I use the same PDF several times in the project?


    thx
    Manfred
  • 3. Re: Motion is constantly crashing when exporting a huge project
    postman07 Level 1 Level 1 (120 points)
    As far as exporting your project: One thing you can try is exporting smaller sections of your video. There might be areas that export very fast and then you'll see a spot where it hangs. That will tell you that there is something in that area that is taking up alot of memory and possibly causing the crash. Could be as they said in previous posts that it is a pdf or something else. But trying this method has helped me in the past at finding problem areas.
  • 4. Re: Motion is constantly crashing when exporting a huge project
    Mark Spencer4 Level 5 Level 5 (6,370 points)
    couple of points:

    -comment about the PDFs is right on, they are probably sucking up a ton of memory. Make sure fixed resolution is turned ON for those guys as well as using as low a resolution as possible

    -try exporting using current settings, then compress the resulting movie

    -hopefully you got the upgraded graphics card on your new iMac. The graphics card is the most important part of the equation with Motion; not memory, not CPU.

    -Rather than quitting Motion to purge the memory, try Mark > Ram Preview > Clear

    Keep us informed of your progress.
  • 5. Re: Motion is constantly crashing when exporting a huge project
    Level 6 Level 6 (11,035 points)
    I second the .pdf idea. I have had similar problems and by checking fixed resolution or replacing the .pdf with some sort of bitmapped image has given motion its life back.

    If you need the .pdf to utilize its vector scalability, I would just export them by themselves and then composite them into the animation afterwards.

    Good luck.
  • 6. Re: Motion is constantly crashing when exporting a huge project
    tames.org Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Hello Everybody!
    All are good suggestions.

    I have another tip, today I have tried to export a qt from motion and every time motion quits.
    (On a Noise Industries plugin)
    Now I send the project to compressor and... it worked!
    in Motion 4:
    file > share > button down on the left, send to compressor
  • 7. Re: Motion is constantly crashing when exporting a huge project
    _Makra_ Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    I gave it a try and replaced all *.pdf files by *.psd or *.jpg files, keyed all video clips outside of Motion and replaced the original footage with the assigned keyers, despillers and color-correctors by ready-to-use ProRes4444 files. If this changed anything, then it was very subtle. Without "shadow", "reflections" and "depth of field" applied, I can export the project. This takes 40 minutes or so.
    With this three things checked, Motion crashes (see below). The final export also needs to have lights enabled and maybe motion blur.
    My big hope is, that the 27" iMac can handle it because of its 8GB Ram and the 4870 Graphics (arrives on Feb,10 thumbs up). The iMac I am using now has only GT130 and 4GB Ram, maybe this is too weak? Otherwise I have to split the project into pieces an assemble them in final cut. There are no cuts, the whole thing is one flow which makes this idea difficult.

    Here the latest crash report (although I dont think it makes any sense to anyone but hope dies last):

    Process: Motion [436]
    Path: /Applications/Motion.app/Contents/MacOS/Motion
    Identifier: com.apple.motion
    Version: 4.0.1 (698)
    Build Info: Motion-6980000~14
    Code Type: X86 (Native)
    Parent Process: launchd [125]

    Date/Time: 2010-01-27 00:00:36.955 +0100
    OS Version: Mac OS X 10.6.2 (10C540)
    Report Version: 6

    Interval Since Last Report: 373471 sec
    Crashes Since Last Report: 5
    Per-App Interval Since Last Report: 58356 sec
    Per-App Crashes Since Last Report: 3
    Anonymous UUID: 0F1AA23E-656B-43EC-B8C6-F16DBE334461

    Exception Type: EXCBADACCESS (SIGBUS)
    Exception Codes: KERNPROTECTIONFAILURE at 0x0000000000000000
    Crashed Thread: 0 Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread

    Thread 0 Crashed: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
    0 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x900b4413 CFQSortArray + 259
    1 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x900c77ec __CFRunLoopDoObservers + 1020
    2 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x900843e2 __CFRunLoopRun + 1154
    3 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x90083864 CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 452
    4 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x90083691 CFRunLoopRunInMode + 97
    5 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x9030ef0c RunCurrentEventLoopInMode + 392
    6 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x9030ecc3 ReceiveNextEventCommon + 354
    7 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x9030eb48 BlockUntilNextEventMatchingListInMode + 81
    8 com.apple.AppKit 0x96a7aac5 _DPSNextEvent + 847
    9 com.apple.AppKit 0x96a7a306 -[NSApplication nextEventMatchingMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 156
    10 com.apple.AppKit 0x96cf1335 -[NSApplication _realDoModalLoop:peek:] + 720
    11 com.apple.AppKit 0x96cf0ab1 -[NSApplication runModalForWindow:] + 273
    12 com.apple.ozone.framework 0x00a4b21e -[OZExportProgressController openDialog:withTitle:windowTitle:withDoneMsg:startFrame:lastFrame:] + 366
    13 com.apple.ozone.framework 0x00a49660 -[OZExportManager initRender:nodeIndex:range:] + 1088
    14 com.apple.ozone.framework 0x00a43ef3 -[OZExportManager initRender:] + 275
    15 com.apple.ozone.framework 0x00a3d400 -[OZExportController _exportDidEnd:returnCode:contextInfo:] + 416
    16 com.apple.AppKit 0x96f839f6 -[NSSavePanel _didEndSheet:returnCode:contextInfo:] + 295
    ...
    ... many lines removed here ....
    ...
    Model: iMac9,1, BootROM IM91.008D.B08, 2 processors, Intel Core 2 Duo, 3.06 GHz, 4 GB, SMC 1.45f0
    Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GT 130, NVIDIA GeForce GT 130, PCIe, 512 MB
    Memory Module: global_name
    AirPort: spairportwireless_card_type_airportextreme (0x14E4, 0x8E), Broadcom BCM43xx 1.0 (5.10.91.26)
    Bluetooth: Version 2.2.4f3, 2 service, 1 devices, 1 incoming serial ports
    Network Service: Ethernet, Ethernet, en0
    Serial ATA Device: WDC WD1001FALS-40K1B0, 931,51 GB
    Serial ATA Device: OPTIARC DVD RW AD-5670S
    USB Device: USB2.0 Hub, 0x05e3 (Genesys Logic, Inc.), 0x0608, 0x24100000
    USB Device: Composite Device, 0x1604, 0x8007, 0x24140000
    USB Device: USB2.0 Hub, 0x05e3 (Genesys Logic, Inc.), 0x0608, 0x24130000
    USB Device: Built-in iSight, 0x05ac (Apple Inc.), 0x8502, 0x24400000
    USB Device: IR Receiver, 0x05ac (Apple Inc.), 0x8242, 0x04500000
    USB Device: BRCM2046 Hub, 0x0a5c (Broadcom Corp.), 0x4500, 0x06100000
    USB Device: Bluetooth USB Host Controller, 0x05ac (Apple Inc.), 0x8215, 0x06110000
    FireWire Device: d2 quadra (button), LaCie, Up to 800 Mb/sec
    FireWire Device: d2 quadra (button), LaCie, Up to 800 Mb/sec
    FireWire Device: d2 quadra (button), LaCie, Up to 800 Mb/sec
    FireWire Device: d2 quadra (button), LaCie, Up to 800 Mb/sec
  • 8. Re: Motion is constantly crashing when exporting a huge project
    Mark Spencer4 Level 5 Level 5 (6,370 points)
    You got an iMac with the 4870 card? I don't think that's possible, that card only works in a Mac Pro AFAIK...
  • 9. Re: Motion is constantly crashing when exporting a huge project
    David M Brewer Level 6 Level 6 (9,200 points)
    Makra Are you sure about that graphic card, 4870? Apple list the graphic card for the iMac as a 4850.
  • 10. Re: Motion is constantly crashing when exporting a huge project
    _Makra_ Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    You are right. Of course it is the 4850 in the 27" iMac. Sorry for the confusion.
  • 11. Re: Motion is constantly crashing when exporting a huge project
    Patrick Sheffield Level 7 Level 7 (29,175 points)
    Back when Motion 1 had a bad memory leak, my workaround was to load the Motion project onto the FCP timeline, Mark In/Out for a portion of the project, select mark in->mark out, render selection. Save, Quit, Open the project, mark the next section, repeat... This way I could do the project in steps and save the renders. And because I did a render selection, I could leave it unattended...

    make sense?

    Patrick

  • 12. Re: Motion is constantly crashing when exporting a huge project
    _Makra_ Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    Patrick, good idea!
    I tried it and imported the .motn file into fcp, Then placed in in the timeline.
    It can be rendered, exported ... everything. So far so good. But the clip is displayed and
    exported without reflections and depth of focus.
    Both boxes are checked in the "Render" setting of Motion and in Motion they are there.
    I looked around but haven't found any setting or parameter that influences this behaviour.
    I am sorry if this is just a "rfm" problem, but any help is highly appreciated.
  • 13. Re: Motion is constantly crashing when exporting a huge project
    _Makra_ Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    Rebooting helped. Reflections and DoF are there. The next hours will show if it workes or crashes......
  • 14. Re: Motion is constantly crashing when exporting a huge project
    _Makra_ Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    Now, fcp crashed. I only tried to render 10 seconds out of the 42 sec. project.
    I am not sure Motion is what I really need to get finished with this clip.

    Thank you all for your help, suggestions and patience. This thread may be closed now.


    Process: Final Cut Pro [2299]
    Path: /Applications/Final Cut Pro.app/Contents/MacOS/Final Cut Pro
    Identifier: com.apple.FinalCutPro
    Version: 7.0.1 (7.0.1)
    Build Info: FCPApp-910141802~4
    Code Type: X86 (Native)
    Parent Process: launchd [125]

    Date/Time: 2010-01-27 22:42:19.420 +0100
    OS Version: Mac OS X 10.6.2 (10C540)
    Report Version: 6

    Interval Since Last Report: 405779 sec
    Crashes Since Last Report: 10
    Per-App Interval Since Last Report: -2392 sec
    Per-App Crashes Since Last Report: 1
    Anonymous UUID: 0F1AA23E-656B-43EC-B8C6-F16DBE334461

    Exception Type: EXC_CRASH (SIGABRT)
    Exception Codes: 0x0000000000000000, 0x0000000000000000
    Crashed Thread: 0 Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread

    Application Specific Information:
    abort() called

    Thread 0 Crashed: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
    0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x93ae5732 __kill + 10
    1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x93ae5724 kill$UNIX2003 + 32
    2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x93b7898d raise + 26
    3 libSystem.B.dylib 0x93b8ea44 abort + 93
    4 libstdc++.6.dylib 0x961cefda _gnu_cxx::__verbose_terminatehandler() + 433
    5 libstdc++.6.dylib 0x961cd17a _cxxabiv1::_terminate(void (*)()) + 10
    6 libstdc++.6.dylib 0x961cd1ba _cxxabiv1::_unexpected(void (*)()) + 0
    7 libstdc++.6.dylib 0x961cd753 _cxa_purevirtual + 48
    8 com.apple.Lithium 0x26b256cb LiChannelPtr::~LiChannelPtr() + 91
    9 com.apple.Lithium 0x26bd2ae4 cropToPolygon(HGRenderer*, HGNode*, LiImagePolygon const&, bool, HGNode*, PCBlendMode, double, bool, bool) + 2004
    10 com.apple.Lithium 0x26bd83e3 MultiBlender::add(HGRef<HGNode> const&, PCBlendMode, double, bool, bool) + 355
    11 com.apple.Lithium 0x26bd52c2 LiCompositor::getHelium(LiAgent&) + 1762
    12 com.apple.Lithium 0x26c02169 LiRenderInstance::buildHeliumGraph(LiAgent&) + 1001
    13 com.apple.Lithium 0x26c02a3e LiRenderInstance::getHelium(LiAgent&) + 270
    14 com.apple.Lithium 0x26b58ac3 LiRenderer::getHelium(LiAgent&) + 51
    15 com.apple.Lithium 0x26bbb715 LiAgent::getHelium(LiImageSource*) + 4789
    16 com.apple.Lithium 0x26baab99 LiGaussianBlur::getHelium(LiAgent&) + 137
    17 com.apple.Lithium 0x26bbb715 LiAgent::getHelium(LiImageSource*) + 4789
    18 com.apple.Lithium 0x26b8d29c LiImageReflection::getHelium(LiAgent&) + 44
    19 com.apple.Lithium 0x26bbb715 LiAgent::getHelium(LiImageSource*) + 4789
    20 com.apple.Lithium 0x26bcd692 LiPolygonInstance::makeNode(LiClipSet const&) + 1682
    21 com.apple.Lithium 0x26bfe111 LiRenderInstance::collectGeode(LiGeode*, LiCollectState&) + 929
    22 com.apple.Lithium 0x26bfef01 LiRenderInstance::collect3D(LiSceneObject*, LiCollectState&) + 1521
    23 com.apple.Lithium 0x26c006a5 LiRenderInstance::collect3D(LiSceneObject*, LiCollectState&) + 7573
    24 com.apple.Lithium 0x26c006a5 LiRenderInstance::collect3D(LiSceneObject*, LiCollectState&) + 7573
    25 com.apple.Lithium 0x26c006a5 LiRenderInstance::collect3D(LiSceneObject*, LiCollectState&) + 7573
    26 com.apple.Lithium 0x26c006a5 LiRenderInstance::collect3D(LiSceneObject*, LiCollectState&) + 7573
    27 com.apple.Lithium 0x26bff3a8 LiRenderInstance::collect3D(LiSceneObject*, LiCollectState&) + 2712
    ...
    ...
    many lines removed here.
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