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DesertSage

Q: Is it possible to reflow the solder on the video chip?

I have the classic iBook G4 problem with a bad video chip connection at the logic board. I have read in some other forums about using a heat gun to re-flow the solder. It sounds very risky, but at this point, I feel I have nothing to loose. does anyone have experience with this procedure?

Thanks,

Randy

iMac G5, iBook G3 (firewire), Mac OS X (10.4.11)

Posted on May 30, 2010 8:31 AM

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Q: Is it possible to reflow the solder on the video chip?

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  • by spudnuty,

    spudnuty spudnuty May 31, 2010 7:38 AM in response to DesertSage
    Level 5 (7,097 points)
    Mac OS X
    May 31, 2010 7:38 AM in response to DesertSage
    Randy,
    I have the classic iBook G4 problem with a bad video chip connection at the logic board.

    What exact symptoms do you have that make you think you have this problem?
    I have read in some other forums about using a heat gun to re-flow the solder. It sounds very risky,

    It is. I have some donated iBooks here where someone tried that and completely cooked the GPU chip. Plus even if you were successful you wouldn't be addressing the core problem which is the bad solder that was used at the transion point to leadless solder.
    but at this point, I feel I have nothing to loose.

    There are two places that do reballing in the country. Search on eBay but first respond with your symptoms.
    Richard
  • by DesertSage,

    DesertSage DesertSage May 31, 2010 8:38 AM in response to spudnuty
    Level 2 (150 points)
    May 31, 2010 8:38 AM in response to spudnuty
    Hi Richard,

    I've been running through the video troubleshooting procedures here on the apple support site one by one right on down to using the rm command. The symptoms include: video shuts off while using the computer but the hard drive is still spinning. You can still see a soft glow in the background for a few more seconds. When I try to restart, only the fan comes on without video. I have to remove the battery to get it to stop. No response from the power button. Occasionally it will power on again normally, video crashes, and then returns to the fan thing again. It's not predictable, but I can get the iBook to boot up with the install disk (10.4.11). If I can get it to remain on long enough to use disc utility, it says that no repairs were necessary. Apple hardware test says everything checks out. If I attempt to reinstall the software (erase and install), I'll only get a few minutes into the installation and loose video again. I have reset the PRAM and the PMU. NO change there. I used the rm command, the iBook rebooted fine and then video shut off. This condition has gotten progressively worse over the last week to the point of nothing but the fan will come on (install disc is stuck in the drive-holding down the track pad button does nothing on restart). There have been no startup chimes for quite a while now.

    While searching other troubleshooting pages, I found the re-flow solder thing on a forum on iFixit, which led to other repair pages and forum links. Many people having success with the heat gun-reflow of the solder on the video chip (others not so lucky). I performed the test of pushing down on the upper case to the left of the track pad, actually squeezing the iBook in that corner and success! The iBook started up normally and I was able to use the computer for short periods and would then need to restart while squeezing the corner again.

    Sorry for the long saga here. I just wanted to give you the entire picture. Does it not sound like the video chip connection is a fault? What do you think it would cost to have this service performed at a shop?

    Thank you for all of your help, Richard.

    Randy
  • by spudnuty,Helpful

    spudnuty spudnuty May 31, 2010 9:17 AM in response to DesertSage
    Level 5 (7,097 points)
    Mac OS X
    May 31, 2010 9:17 AM in response to DesertSage
    Randy,
    No the long post was quite helpful. I see that you actually have a G3 iBook. The GPU for that is actually on the bottom. The location is easily seen if you take the bottom off. It's under the large square bump in the lower shield.
    Pressure on that bump should cause the video to come back if your problem is actually a ball grid array problem.
    The other problem these iBooks had was the Corey Arnold problem:
    http://www.coreyarnold.org/ibook/
    This can cause a no start situation where the fans run at high speed.
    Corey uses a shim to correct this as you can also do that with the BGA chip to correct a video problem.
    Be careful pressing on that area to the left of the track pad since that's where the hard drive resides. There was a poster here that was doing that and heard a horrendous screeching sound that was his hard drive being squashed!
    If you need instructions on how to take your iBook apart email me.

    Richard
  • by DesertSage,

    DesertSage DesertSage May 31, 2010 4:08 PM in response to spudnuty
    Level 2 (150 points)
    May 31, 2010 4:08 PM in response to spudnuty
    Richard,

    I know I'm a nut-ball Mac addict when I actually own four iBooks and an iMac. The problem I'm having is with my G4 iBook 12" 800mgz. Does this change the game plan? I have read about the temporary shim fix. From what it says in the forums, this fix doesn't last very long.
  • by spudnuty,

    spudnuty spudnuty May 31, 2010 9:29 PM in response to DesertSage
    Level 5 (7,097 points)
    Mac OS X
    May 31, 2010 9:29 PM in response to DesertSage
    Randy,
    Have you tried using a mini VGA to VGA adapter to feed an external monitor. Try that and see what happens.
    When the video drops out do you see any video anomalies?
    Try that and report back.
    Yes the shim usually doesn't last long and I've had trouble doing that anyway given where the GPU is located.
    Richard
  • by DesertSage,

    DesertSage DesertSage May 31, 2010 10:17 PM in response to spudnuty
    Level 2 (150 points)
    May 31, 2010 10:17 PM in response to spudnuty
    Richard,

    I connected the G4 iBook to my external display via a VGA adapter but could only get the iBook to run the "fans of doom" as they have been affectionately referred to in the blog you sent. No startup sounds. The external display says "no signal". The squeeze method isn't even working now. Darn, and my install disc is still stuck inside. Do you think I should try the shim method? I suppose, if that works, then the solder connections would be at fault. I could then decide if I want to pay to have it repaired. What do you think?

    Randy
  • by spudnuty,

    spudnuty spudnuty Jun 1, 2010 7:02 AM in response to DesertSage
    Level 5 (7,097 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jun 1, 2010 7:02 AM in response to DesertSage
    Randy,
    could only get the iBook to run the "fans of doom"

    So that's the U28 problem ala Corey's site.
    The squeeze method isn't even working now.

    Yes since you're not getting pressure on the exact chip (U 228).
    Here's my pics: U 28 location, pins involved, ECU of the pins and repair method:
    http://s291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/spudnuty/U28%20Problem/
    The wire you see bridging to SMT (surface mount technology) components on the board measures .011 inches.
    I used to tack those legs down directly but I think the solder joint itself is contaminated and the repair soon cracks again. A complete repair would be to remove the chip, clean off the legs and pads and resolder. Beyond what I'm capable of with my equipment.
    Do you think I should try the shim method? I suppose, if that works, then the solder connections

    Yah just press on U28. Be careful and don't do it too long. It's a dual voltage regulator and w/ resistive contact to the board it might get pretty hot.
    Actually close inspection w/ a microscope would reveal the problem. The pic I put up is of an extreme case.
    I could then decide if I want to pay to have it repaired.

    Yup here's the cheapest place I know but they would replace the entire board.
    http://www.dttservice.com/ibookg4.html
    Richard
  • by DesertSage,

    DesertSage DesertSage Jun 1, 2010 7:37 AM in response to spudnuty
    Level 2 (150 points)
    Jun 1, 2010 7:37 AM in response to spudnuty
    I'm impressed! Thank you Richard. You are so kind to share your expertise on this. When you bridged the contacts with a patch, did you use copper and leaded solder? What about flux? I don't think the soldering pencil I have is up to the task. Do you have a recommendation on a brand or power? I do have a magnifier and think I'll take a crack at this. If all else fails, I could get another logic board on eBay. It will be fun to try anyway.

    In the mean time, I'll push on U28.

    Thanks again!

    Randy
  • by spudnuty,Helpful

    spudnuty spudnuty Jun 1, 2010 12:00 PM in response to DesertSage
    Level 5 (7,097 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jun 1, 2010 12:00 PM in response to DesertSage
    Randy,
    did you use copper

    It's just standard tinned copper. I've used single strands from #18 stranded wire before for this kind of stuff.
    and leaded solder?

    No just the standard Radio Shack Silver-Bering Solder #64-0355E .015". It does say High-Tech on it. That's gotta be good. ;<)

    <div class="jive-quote">What about flux?
    It's standard rosin core solder.
    I don't think the soldering pencil I have is up to the task.

    This is just a standard 30W pencil from RS no doubt.
    Like this one:
    http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062737
    but I don't like the ones with the long heating element as much so I just pick them up anywhere I see one.
    I modify the tip somewhat to a fat, angled chisel shape. Keep a clean, bright tip by using a damp sponge. (must not be the plastic ones).
    To find another tie point you can mostly just look at the "lands" traces where pins 1 and 15 connect and solder to a similar point. I verify that this is the same point electrically by using my meter set on continuity.
    Richard
  • by DesertSage,

    DesertSage DesertSage Jun 1, 2010 6:37 PM in response to spudnuty
    Level 2 (150 points)
    Jun 1, 2010 6:37 PM in response to spudnuty
    One more thing, Richard, if you don't mind. In addition to the bridged contacts, do you still go around to all of the pins and tack them down or just install the bridges on pins 1 and 15 as in you very nice photos?

    Randy
  • by spudnuty,

    spudnuty spudnuty Jun 1, 2010 9:53 PM in response to DesertSage
    Level 5 (7,097 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jun 1, 2010 9:53 PM in response to DesertSage
    Randy,
    do you still go around to all of the pins and tack them down or just install the bridges on pins 1 and 15

    I've don't remember seeing problems with the other pins with the possible exception of that picture that I posted where they all look bad. #15 being horrible.
    Besides It's tough enough to work on the pins on the end. Wait until you try to put that pencil tip on one of those middle pins. It looks like a tree trunk next to those tiny pins. I've had problems trying that as the solder wants to flow everywhere and tends to solder all the pins together. (been there) It definitely won't work that way.
    Richard
  • by DesertSage,

    DesertSage DesertSage Jun 2, 2010 6:52 AM in response to spudnuty
    Level 2 (150 points)
    Jun 2, 2010 6:52 AM in response to spudnuty
    Thank you,

    I'll let you know how things go. Bought the Radio Shack pencil you suggested yesterday.

    Randy
  • by DesertSage,

    DesertSage DesertSage Jun 7, 2010 8:58 PM in response to DesertSage
    Level 2 (150 points)
    Jun 7, 2010 8:58 PM in response to DesertSage
    Hi Richard,

    Just a quick update. I pushed on U28 during startup and it booted normally. Inspected pins 1 and 15 with a 10x loupe but really couldn't tell much except that those pins seemed to have less solder than the others. Using my 5x binocular visor didn't provide enough magnification. Too intimidating! I ordered another visor with built in illumination and 10x lenses. I think I'll feel comfortable (don't laugh) with that magnification, considering what the contacts looked like through the 10x loupe.

    How the heck did you ever hold the bridge wires in place while soldering? The resistor at the pin #1 connection is so frigging small. You must have nerves of steel!

    Randy
  • by spudnuty,Solvedanswer

    spudnuty spudnuty Jun 8, 2010 5:51 AM in response to DesertSage
    Level 5 (7,097 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jun 8, 2010 5:51 AM in response to DesertSage
    Randy,
    I pushed on U28 during startup and it booted normally.

    Yes! Smoking gun!
    Inspected pins 1 and 15 with a 10x loupe but really couldn't tell much

    I use a mini microscope that I bought here:
    http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm/subsection/21/category/195/start/1/maxrows/1 1/srch.fp/1
    Didn't realize it was 45 X but it's my go to magnifier for really close up inspection.
    You must have nerves of steel!

    Well hands actually but they look like this and they're made in China!:
    http://www.amazon.com/Helping-Hands-with-Magnifying-Glass/dp/B000RB38X8/ref=sr111?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1276000481&sr=1-11
    The resistor at the pin #1 connection is so frigging small.

    Originally I was trying to retack pins 1 and 15 down to the board so soldering to that resistor is like working with a boulder.
    This is about the limit of micro work I can do without some kind of micro positioning servo or such.
    Good job in isolating the problem to U28.
    Richard

    Message was edited by: spudnuty
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