Artitron

Q: MacBook Pro (2010) Freeze

Anyone else with the new i7 MBP experiencing a hard freeze? No Grey Screen of Death, just freezing screen and input. Only remedy is to hold the power button to cycle the power.

It has frozen twice in the last week. Both times the machine was on battery power and certainly not under load - just light browsing, no gaming.

Just curious if this is going to be a longer term problem...

[System]
Model Identifier: MacBookPro6,2
Processor Name: Intel Core i7
Processor Speed: 2.66 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
Total Number Of Cores: 2
Memory: 8 GB

[Serial ATA]
Model: APPLE SSD TS512B
Revision: AGAA0206

MacBook Pro (2010), Mac OS X (10.6.3), Intel Core i7 2.66, Apple 512GB SSD

Posted on May 3, 2010 1:56 PM

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Q: MacBook Pro (2010) Freeze

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  • by SKEL_73,

    SKEL_73 SKEL_73 Jul 7, 2010 1:34 PM in response to Artitron
    Level 2 (235 points)
    Jul 7, 2010 1:34 PM in response to Artitron
    Speaking for myself, I have been on the phone with Applecare 3 times over the last 2 weeks advancing my problem with them, but I also see the benefit in sharing ideas and experiences with others - however disparate these experiences may or may not be. So I'm not here in place of taking the steps you mention, I am here in addition to them. It's just communicating and bouncing around ideas, completely harmless and potentially helpful.
  • by jgmdean,Helpful

    jgmdean jgmdean Jul 7, 2010 1:59 PM in response to du9207
    Level 1 (30 points)
    Jul 7, 2010 1:59 PM in response to du9207
    du9207 wrote:
    how can this topic be "answered"??? People are still having problems like crazy and there seems to be no clear way of making this "freeze" go away, officially. It seems that a fanboy just got upset with so many people trashing apple on this for not responding and could not handle his precious Apple being trashed. the only way this can be marked as answered is if people can fix this problem with the "solution" 99.9% of the time.

    Seriously, people have spent over $1k on their machine and this thread in no way helps them fix the freeze problem.


    Sigh. Got a new trolling motor did we?

    None of the following is official in any capacity. I don't work for Apple, any related supplier, own stock or anything else. I'm a customer who just happens to know more than a little about the technologies and troubleshooting, thanks to a 20+ year career in the industry. That said, I'll try and be brief and use short words:

    *This thread about the 2010 i5 and i7 MBP 15" and 17", and total system "freezing". Anything else is a distraction, start your own thread.*

    "Freeze" is a generic term for when a system stops responding to input (keyboard, mouse, network) and sometimes the screen output stops or gets trashed.

    Just as there are many causes and types of causes of something like an animal sneeze or a car backfire, so it is with system freezes.

    After examining what happened with my own machine, and reading the reports of others here and elsewhere I'm "convinced beyond a reasonable doubt" that the "circumstantial evidence" supports my expert guess at what's happened. (Sorry, big words, but they've been on TV, so hopefully not beyond anyone's vocabulary.)

    A relatively small number of systems have a defect that causes an unpredictable freeze. The type of freeze depends on what the system was doing at the time the defect showed itself.

    The freeze doesn't show itself in any predictable way (several people here have tried, me included) and any number of parts could be the guilty party with the same effect. This is also why tests done at the factory may not have caught the problem components either. It's shown up with or without "gfxstatus" and other bits of software running, locked to Intel or Nvidia, and under 10.6.3 and 10.6.4, and with various patches applied or uninstalled. THAT all points to a hardware problem.

    To compare: Big, expensive, server systems (like the ones that run banks, hospitals, or anything else where there's serious money, lives, or both at risk) have the extra capability to be able to tell that something's wrong if something like 1+1 suddenly =3, and the extra parts to correct errors. Another example: The shuttle has 5 computers that all check each other during liftoff. Consumer laptops, even high end one like the MBP don't do this as it would easily double the price and the type of weirdness required to cause this sort of problem in a "normal" system doesn't happen very often. Cases that go from "occasionally in a month" to "several times a day" and identical hardware and firmware versions between affected and unaffected systems suggest the underlying cause is a latent manufacturing defect somewhere that may be made worse by usually allowable changes in how one component is manufactured to the next (tolerances).

    New graphics chips, new graphics switching mechanism, new other chips, etc. It would actually be more surprising to me if something like this didn't happen. It's the joys of buying the latest and greatest. It can be a LOT worse. Go Google "laptop fire" if you want to see.

    If you're buying a MBP, buy with confidence as you chances of getting a unit with a problem appear to be very, very low, as the "bad batch" seems to have worked its way mostly out of the supply. If, like me, you were very unlucky, well, it siphons, but that's life. The number of affected systems don't need a recall, that's what a warranty is FOR.

    If you think you have the issue, take the unit to an Apple store (make an appointment first, doh!) and explain that you're having an intermittent freezing problem that you can't make happen when you want to. Tell them that you've read of a small number of other people who have had similar problems, and that the fix seems to be a main logic board replacement. Point them to this thread even.

    If you don't live within a convenient distance of an Apple store I presume you planned for that when you bought your system, right? That doesn't mean it doesn't siphon but it's also life.

    All I ask is if you do get your unit's board replaced or even just tested, report it back here to confirm or disprove the educated guess above.

    I think I failed on the brief part, but it IS a complicated problem. The above is AN answer, so it's ANSWERED. Oh, and some of us spent quite a lot more than US$1000 on our MBP's. Nobody likes a whiner.
  • by Artitron,

    Artitron Artitron Jul 7, 2010 2:32 PM in response to SKEL_73
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 7, 2010 2:32 PM in response to SKEL_73
    I am certainly behind this approach and it is a core reason to have a communal forum. From the beginning, two months ago, several posters have tried to share the constructive elements of their experience in dealing with this specific issue to help others who might have the same problem.

    The difficulty has been keeping the discussion directly related to the particular hardware / freeze combination originally mentioned - all the while trying to keep raw speculation to a minimum.

    Like jgmdean and others, I am pretty convinced that this was a bad batch of hardware that requires direct intervention from Apple to resolve. If you are unwilling/unable to conduct more than surface-level troubleshooting - the solution provided by this thread is hopefully the quickest way to resolve this specific failure.

    If you the time on your hands, the right tools and skills... adding to the discussion is appreciated and helpful.

    To that end, I will hopefully add some useful information now: Ever since I had my MBP i7 15" (2010) replaced, it hasn't frozen at all. That was over a month ago.
  • by pczeryba,

    pczeryba pczeryba Jul 7, 2010 4:59 PM in response to Artitron
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 7, 2010 4:59 PM in response to Artitron
    Hi Artitron !

    on your replaced MBP, do you (now) use the automatic switching graphic card option or not ?

    Thanks.
  • by Artitron,

    Artitron Artitron Jul 7, 2010 8:47 PM in response to pczeryba
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 7, 2010 8:47 PM in response to pczeryba
    Yes i have it default to do normal graphics switching but i don't use gfxCardStatus anymore to keep track of it.

    On the old MBP, gfxCardStatus really didn't help troubleshoot the issue since it was a hard freeze and I never could tell if it was switching - plus there were no logs when it froze.

    Additionally, I also use my Windows7 BootCamp instance a lot and I believe that only uses the nVidia chip. I could be wrong though. No freezing there either.
  • by A new MBP user purchased month,

    A new MBP user purchased month A new MBP user purchased month Jul 8, 2010 3:26 AM in response to SKEL_73
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 8, 2010 3:26 AM in response to SKEL_73
    I posted my issue before in this thread (hard freeezes not resolving at all and even freezing at restart). I got my MBP checked in a distributor and found everything OK and he assumed it should be an issue in the logice board. He heard of a sisilar problem in another branch for the same model 2.4 13 inch.

    I purchased the laptop once introduced so as you mentioned in your comment it can be a hardware flaw in the first batches released in a certain time like in April May.

    The solution would be for apple to replace the defective batches of logic boards.

    Cheers
  • by Fake Brain,

    Fake Brain Fake Brain Jul 10, 2010 5:39 PM in response to Artitron
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 10, 2010 5:39 PM in response to Artitron
    Initially, I thought this thread was about an issue different from my own, but reading the many symptoms have convinced me otherwise. There is another thread where people are having freezes only when attached to an external monitor, but only in extended or mirrored mode, not clamshell mode: http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=11839361

    Here are some photos of my computer when it breaks. In this case, I just left it on the login screen.
    http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b446/jkjun/Bad%20mac%20bad/IMG_6669.jpg
    http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b446/jkjun/Bad%20mac%20bad/IMG_6670.jpg

    I have only once received a crash report after re-logging in, details are in the other thread.

    My friend suggested I try running dtrace while the second monitor is attached, but he wasn't sure which process I should log. Any suggestions?

    Another idea: the computer is not really "frozen," I can move and see the mouse, sometimes eventually it stops. But, as others have reported, sometimes audio keeps going, etc. If I open up an ssh port, then when the computer freezes I can try to remotely login to the machine and diagnose the problem.

    Hope a fix comes soon.

    PS I've taken my mac to the apple store twice, and both times it refused to replicate
  • by bolaco10,

    bolaco10 bolaco10 Jul 10, 2010 5:57 PM in response to Artitron
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 10, 2010 5:57 PM in response to Artitron
    Reading a lot of these posts. I just got my macbook pro (13 inch) 10.6.4 and my friend set me all up. Came home and started using it and within minutes it froze on me. Was running an itunes radio station when it froze, thats it. Called applecare and we had to use the power button, nothing else would work. Thinking of just bringing it back and getting a new one just in case. I seriously set it up minutes before. Just am scared its going to happen again.
  • by Vylain,

    Vylain Vylain Jul 10, 2010 6:45 PM in response to bolaco10
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 10, 2010 6:45 PM in response to bolaco10
    My experience was similar to yours.
    It started to freeze just one day after I received my 13" macbook pro.
    I took it to the AppleStore and then returned the computer as they could not diagnose the issue (they actually experienced the freezing issue during their tests).

    Incidentally, I recall using coconutBattery to check the battery and I saw that the computer was 4 weeks old.
    This seems weird because I received it just one week after I ordered it and its a "CTO" Cutom To Order (320 GB HD and French keyboard).
    What was my computer doing in the first 3 weeks of his life ?!?
    Is it possible that it was sort of refurbished ?
  • by Kevin MacLeod,

    Kevin MacLeod Kevin MacLeod Jul 10, 2010 8:07 PM in response to bolaco10
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 10, 2010 8:07 PM in response to bolaco10
    Return it or get a replacement. My replacement has frozen...less. Once in OS X once in Windows since I got it a month ago. That's much better than my first which did it sometimes hourly or even more!!

    If it happens once more, I'll be returning it for another replacement.

    My advice: if your work is very important get a MacBook.
  • by GoTVols,

    GoTVols GoTVols Jul 10, 2010 8:30 PM in response to Kevin MacLeod
    Level 2 (255 points)
    Jul 10, 2010 8:30 PM in response to Kevin MacLeod
    You have obviously not used a PC very often. Freezing 2 times in one month would be a small miracle!
    Stop expecting perfection just because you bought a Macintosh. You have a wonderful laptop, stop complaining and threatening to return it and enjoy its capabilities.
  • by Vylain,

    Vylain Vylain Jul 11, 2010 5:59 AM in response to GoTVols
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 11, 2010 5:59 AM in response to GoTVols
    My current laptop (15" macbook pro from 2006) never freezes although I never reboot it.
    That is what I call a very good machine.

    If my new machine freezes twice a month, I would be quite disappointed because it would be a big step done for me.

    BTW, when you use you computer for work you don't wan't it to freeze at any time for no reason.
    Besides, not all PCs have this kind of issues (even if it may be more frequent).

    Give Kevin a break !
  • by iinami,

    iinami iinami Jul 11, 2010 6:01 AM in response to Artitron
    Level 4 (1,452 points)
    Wireless
    Jul 11, 2010 6:01 AM in response to Artitron
    i'm compelled to add here. i am a new mac user, 2010 macbook pro 13. bought it, let the apple store transfer my itunes and pictures from an ancient dell desktop and add iwork. i never even had wireless in my house til i bought this and an airport express. i have had zero issues so far, never had a freeze or anything resembling a freeze. i bought it right before the 10.6.4 update came out and did not upgrade. one thing i will say is that i did do a genius session because i didn't understand how to use apple mail v. hotmail which i normally use. the genius, who impressed me with his knowledge btw, started to delete some stuff and all that and i told him whatever you are doing don't update to 10.6.4, and he said, don't worry i won't. as if he knew it had problems. i did not ask him, and i don't know if he thought 10.6.4 was funky. but as i said, this macbook pro is awesome so far. i hope i didn't just jinx myself....
  • by Vylain,

    Vylain Vylain Jul 11, 2010 6:11 AM in response to iinami
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 11, 2010 6:11 AM in response to iinami
    The freezing issue was also experienced on 10.6.3.
    That is why it is believe that it comes from the hardware, not the software.

    I guess you still have to lose some Windows habits...
  • by KXsig,

    KXsig KXsig Jul 11, 2010 6:23 AM in response to Sam M.
    Level 2 (310 points)
    Jul 11, 2010 6:23 AM in response to Sam M.
    Hi S,

    The freezing reports here got an impressive volume in the last week or am I wrong?

    Cheers, K.
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