1 2 3 4 Previous Next 52 Replies Latest reply: Dec 16, 2010 4:53 AM by J Henselmans Go to original post
  • 45. Re: DirectoryServices crashing since 10.6.3 did not change in 10.6.4
    Mac Meyer Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)
    Just wanna add myself to the list:

    I upgraded to 10.6.4 and still:
    AFP connections drop and users are logged out

    And new now:
    SMB connections also drop, that did not happen before!

    So: we do even have more problems since the upgrade to 10.6.4

    also frustrated.
  • 46. Re: DirectoryServices crashing since 10.6.3
    pcolvin15 Level 1 Level 1 (90 points)
    First, Apple noted a long time ago not to use Time Machine on a server because it will not back up all the files/directories you need to have backed up, it's a client side backup only. We use BRU as our solution, backing up 2 OSX and a 2003 server with it, and have had no problem. We use TM connected to locally connected external drives for the client since I don't want to waste the bandwidth and disc space on my server shares. Other posts have discussed using other server backup solutions, but TM is not one of them.

    Second, if you insist on running time machine on the server, it will collide with mdworker (spotlight) and you will crash. You need to turn spotlight off by entering "/" into the privacy tab. This problem was supposed to be fixed in 10.6.4 but, as the post show, this appears not to be the case.

    The spotlight issue is not just with time machine, and can cause OD crashes and OD scrambling. Once I turned it off my OD issues went away.
  • 47. Re: DirectoryServices crashing since 10.6.3
    Ernst Mulder Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    In that case I'm a bit puzzled why Apple's Server OS would include "features" such as Spotlight and Time Machine when they are not to be used and can in fact disable the Server OS? I did read in Apple's documentation that some data such as iCal Server data is not properly backed up by Time Machine but I have not read in Apple's documentation that Time Machine is not to be used at all.
  • 48. Re: DirectoryServices crashing since 10.6.3
    pcolvin15 Level 1 Level 1 (90 points)
    Actually, Apple does not recommend Time Machine for server backup (see the Advanced Server Admin manual p36+) because it only saves some configuration settings and service states, and does not backup up service data, such as moved iCal folders. It is included on the server because it can be kicked off for user computers under preferences to back up selected machines onto a server share. It is included as a server application because of the same reason that Microsoft includes a backup program in their servers: because the user expects one and would complain otherwise. However, they are extremely limited, and in Microsoft's case, must be manually run. This is why it best to use 3rd party software, such as BRU or Retrospect, because of the versatility, and controllability.

    The apparent problem with Spotlight (the background mdworker daemon) and TM is that they have indexing functions that kick off randomly and independently of each other, which, if both go at the same time, binds up the drive handling functions, such as caching, etc, and can crash the machine. Also, there are reported problems with TM colliding with slapd (the OD engine) and crashing OD.

    We need to remember that when SNL came out it was meant for the xServe or MacPro which are much faster and use more robust hardware than the mac-mini. If you read the recent posts, most of the recent issues with Spotlight, TM and OD are being reported as occurring on mac-minis, a new hardware base for the OS. So we, and Apple, are in a learning curve.
  • 49. Re: DirectoryServices crashing since 10.6.3
    SnoRock Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Sorry pcolvin15, but this doesn't make sense to me:

    Actually, Apple does not recommend Time Machine for server backup (see the Advanced Server Admin manual p36+) because it only saves some configuration settings and service states, and does not backup up service data, such as moved iCal folders. It is included on the server because it can be kicked off for user computers under preferences to back up selected machines onto a server share. It is included as a server application because of the same reason that Microsoft includes a backup program in their servers: because the user expects one and would complain otherwise. However, they are extremely limited, and in Microsoft's case, must be manually run. This is why it best to use 3rd party software, such as BRU or Retrospect, because of the versatility, and controllability.



    Given that TM does not backup all settings only suggests it isn't suited to a "server backup". It is, however, well suited to periodic timed backup of user documents stored on a server -- easy, convenient means to retrieve files from hours / days / weeks ago.

    The apparent problem with Spotlight (the background mdworker daemon) and TM is that they have indexing functions that kick off randomly and independently of each other, which, if both go at the same time, binds up the drive handling functions, such as caching, etc, and can crash the machine. Also, there are reported problems with TM colliding with slapd (the OD engine) and crashing OD.



    Spotlight and TM run happily on clients. Perhaps the drives get sluggish at times (I have no evidence either way) and that may not suit a server, but I doubt it would crash the machine (my clients are rock solid).

    TM vs OD is a different story, and so far I would say TM wins and OD loses.

    We need to remember that when SNL came out it was meant for the xServe or MacPro which are much faster and use more robust hardware than the mac-mini. If you read the recent posts, most of the recent issues with Spotlight, TM and OD are being reported as occurring on mac-minis, a new hardware base for the OS. So we, and Apple, are in a learning curve.



    Speed should not affect crashing, and robustness of hardware relates to hardware failures and failure modes. I would also expect that the smaller / cheaper form factor of the mini is putting it into different situations where people are more likely to appreciate using TM to backup and retrieve user docs. Those with xServes would likely have more elaborate (and expensive) backup plans (and staff).



    That said, I have seen several posts suggesting that they limit the directories of TM or Spotlight. As far as I can tell, the problems lie in the TMPreBackupHook script called as preparation to the TM backup. It does not matter which directories are included or excluded.

    To stop the crashes, you need to prevent the TMPreBackupHook script being called. This can be done by turning TM off. Not my ideal solution!
  • 50. Re: DirectoryServices crashing since 10.6.3
    Vern Dempster Level 1 Level 1 (20 points)
    Putting my experiences on this post. I have a macmini server running web and mail which has worked perfectly using time machine backing up to the second harddrive. I have had to restart it once this year when postgres stopped working. However I have only recently upgraded it to 10.6.4. from 10.6.2. due to my continuing problems with my xserve and 10.6.3 and 10.6.4, and afp crashes. However my xserve has been unstable since10.6.3 (May). Use of Server admin and WGM is banned from the server unless it is booted straight after. I use TM to back up the students and staff users folders but only manually which I did at the end of the recent holidays (thank goodness). I had to restore a folder of final art work for a student that a teacher had accidentally deleted. I used TM and ti worked perfectly, restoring to her folder. However the server which had been untouched since the backup 4 days before, started to have weird afp folder issues within 20 minutes of the restore. SO using TM even as a restore when lots of students are accessing it via afp is a no no!!!.
    In short I have an xserve that crashes afp with use of TM, SM, and WGM and other assorted afp issues.and a macmini that doesnt (the only difference is afp is not used on macmini) Still dont know why, still dont know when it will be fixed. Have contacted apple engineers but no fix to my case. See also this post http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=12275660
  • 51. Re: DirectoryServices crashing since 10.6.3
    *context* Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Maybe its too early to tell, but anyone having this issue experienced a change in 10.6.5. I didn't see anything in the change log, but that doesn't always mean anything.

    I'm itching to get incremental backups working but TM was RUINING my network. Because all users are Network accounts loss of PW server and share points resulted in pandemonium. Adults running up and down hallways and I still have not incremental backup.

    Thanks for the advice!

    — Justin
  • 52. Re: DirectoryServices crashing since 10.6.3
    J Henselmans Level 1 Level 1 (25 points)
    For those of us that thought 10.6.5 would solve the problem: I have just experienced the same error on a 10.6.5 machine.

    I think it is fair to say that servermgr_backup is the culprit. It is something intermittent, it did happen twice the last days.

    -Johan
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