GaBeech

Q: Late 2006 iMac, Lines, Kernel Panic, Freeze, Reboot, Restart, Serial W8 ?

Hello,

Let me start by explaining the method I am initially going to adopt in my search for answers;

•All of the keywords and more that would not fit in the title space, relate to my problem.
•I think the *iMac Serial* holds the key to mine and possibly a lot of other peoples search for answers.
•My second post will explain what I know about the Serial and the information it provides.
•I have a strong feeling that a lot of people who have the same or similar problems to me will have a Serial that begins with at least W8.
•I believe that a lot of affected machines will of been produced between 2006 & 2008, yet not confined to that window in time.
•So, to round up, I am looking for people who have had/are having the same/similar problems to the ones listed below.

•Small graphical glitches; Thin lines in random areas on the desktop, growing in number and intensity over time.
•Graphical glitches on, in and around Finder windows. Again, growing in number and intensity over time.
•Horizontal lines across entire screen. Again, growing in number and intensity over time.
•The odd Software Crash/System Freeze. (Which does not happen very often on the iMac we've grown to love)
•More frequent Software Crashes/System Freeze's. (Maybe it's all that freeware and plugins I've been playing with)
•Kernel Panic's, never had one before... it was a new one on me.
•Frequent Kernel Panics.
•System Freeze, recovering after being put to sleep and then woken.
•System Freeze, unrecoverable. Hard reset required.
•Exactly the same behavior after a full reinstall of OSX.
•Exactly the same behavior after wiping system drive with zero's, then a full reinstall of OSX.
•Exactly the same behavior after wiping system drive with zero's, then a full reinstall with a previous version of OSX.
•System Freeze requiring hard reset on nearly every occasion Time Machine was accessed.
•Shut iMac down completely, never to respond to Power Button being pressed again, even after trying to reset the SMC.


The above is a simplified list of key events on a relatively short journey from Perfect Machine to, 'will not power up'.


If you or anyone you know has gone through anything similar, I would love you to join this topic.

Yours,
GaBeech

iMac (20-inch Late 2006) 2.16 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo ~ x1600 Graphics, Mac OS X (10.6.3), Serial Number: W87070ACVUV (Check My Biography To See What A Serial Means)

Posted on May 26, 2010 8:36 PM

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Q: Late 2006 iMac, Lines, Kernel Panic, Freeze, Reboot, Restart, Serial W8 ?

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  • by maitaimai,

    maitaimai maitaimai Oct 13, 2010 5:04 AM in response to R C-R
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 13, 2010 5:04 AM in response to R C-R
    Doesn't make any sense to discuss this. You are what is called in Apple "jargon" a volunteer. Nothing bad about it and I told you, for experience and for many other reasons your help is appreciated in many contexts. Here you simply don't have the expertise nor the power to help any further. It's as simple as that.
  • by R C-R,

    R C-R R C-R Oct 13, 2010 5:52 AM in response to maitaimai
    Level 6 (17,700 points)
    Oct 13, 2010 5:52 AM in response to maitaimai
    The point is that the only thing that makes sense to discuss in this topic is what the OP originally asked for, that being for users to share specific info about iMacs affected in the same way as his. The original aim of the topic was not to get Apple to do anything. It was to gather info from other users to see if a pattern emerged that would help them understand if or when their iMac would be similarly affected.

    A lot of users don't seem to understand this, somehow thinking that Apple will 'do something' just because they post a message here. That mistaken belief doesn't help anybody, nor do the conjectures that misuse statistical methodology to 'prove' something that is in fact still highly speculative.

    I realize this is not what affected users want to hear, but it doesn't make it any less true or justify substituting useless speculation for facts that might actually help accomplish something.
  • by pbcubed,

    pbcubed pbcubed Oct 14, 2010 8:13 AM in response to R C-R
    Level 1 (20 points)
    Oct 14, 2010 8:13 AM in response to R C-R
    R C-R wrote:
    <snip> It was to gather info from other users to see if a pattern emerged that would help them understand if or when their iMac would be similarly affected.
    <snip> I realize this is not what affected users want to hear, but it doesn't make it any less true or justify substituting useless speculation for facts that might actually help accomplish something.


    I've said this before but I think if one searches for reports & responses concerning the problems discussed in this thread it seems the viewpoints have been covered well (e.g. this search returns almost 100 possibly related threads, often with many users posting similar experiences to each thread):

    http://discussions.apple.com/search.jspa?threadID=&q=screenAND+%28line+or+lines+or+blocks+orfreeze%29&objID=c189&dateRange=all&userID=&numResults=30&rankBy=10001

    and similar reports & responses elsewhere:

    http://getsatisfaction.com/apple/topics/intel24_imac_screenproblems
    http://getsatisfaction.com/apple/topics/verticallines_on_imac_late_2006_core_2_duoscreen
    http://getsatisfaction.com/apple/topics/2006imac_graphics_card_crash_freeze?utm_content=reply_link&utm_medium=email&utm_sour ce=reply_notification#reply2909771

    To me it seems prudent, not useless speculation, to believe that there is some pattern here AND that in many cases use of 3rd party utils to lower temps are reported to lessen the symptoms.
    Granted this can still be considered conjecture, as is the leap that one should not fully trust apple-engineered firmware to cope adequately, temperature-wise, esp. for machines that are frequent "stressed" (e.g. video gaming/HD video).

    Review of the results of the above links suggests to me that we will not find the phenomenon limited to specific iMac unit runs.

    *Wouldn't it be a shame if this conjecture panned out & that apple could/could have simply rolled out firmware that, through slightly more aggressive fan-speed reaction to heat (or System Pref options to do so), reduced the frequency of these failures?*

    *Or, short of that, that iMac users (esp. those off warranty) could have been made aware of these reports & possibly gotten more life out their units through use of 3rd party utils?*

    *Especially those with 17" & 20" units having logic boards that are cost-prohibitive to replace? Even if at some elevated risk of (replaceable) fan failure?*

    We will likely never really know, and even if we do the benefit appears limited as R C-R relates. We seem destined to just keep seeing more reports of this roll in.
    As said I guess one can only contact Apple to get them to consider reviewing this:

    http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=11884158&#11884158
  • by maitaimai,

    maitaimai maitaimai Oct 14, 2010 8:34 AM in response to R C-R
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 14, 2010 8:34 AM in response to R C-R
    You deny hard facts:

    - 2 years of threads related
    - hundreds of users reporting identical problems
    - emerging patterns from all users: heat, ventilation, graphic subsystem
    - identical symptoms: glitches, lines, artefacts, spinning wheel of death while machine is still available via remote login
    - many affected machines are late white iMac 2006 models

    For you this is nothing, there is no pattern, an individual problem. Well, you've expressed your opinion, great. Do you have something more to say, something that relates with our problems, the pattern, the hardware design problem most of us assume to be the cause? If not, thanks and good bye.
  • by elmac,

    elmac elmac Oct 14, 2010 8:49 AM in response to maitaimai
    Level 5 (4,230 points)
    Oct 14, 2010 8:49 AM in response to maitaimai
    Hi All, just a thought!..why not close this Post...
    Start a Blog and go from there, I do not think anything further said here will either "cure" the issues or move forward the overall situation..
    I also think that this Post is now -> Negative in nature....L
  • by maitaimai,

    maitaimai maitaimai Oct 14, 2010 9:16 AM in response to elmac
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 14, 2010 9:16 AM in response to elmac
    Elmac: Wasn't it you who started another thread because you don't seem to be affected?
    I just wonder why people with a lot of experience (a.k.a. lot's of posts like you, kaufmann and RCR) start a meta-discussion, recommend to move elsewhere, mark the discussion as negative).
    Everybody wants to adhere to the topic, the topic is about

    - late white iMacs
    - serials that start with W8 (I posted the first five characters of mine in this thread)
    - Freezes, Lines, artefacts

    All of you three should do so as well.

    This relates to many other threads with the same problem reports.
    This makes many users believe that there exists a pattern and that the problem is either

    - hardware design related
    - or due to manufacturing problems

    I believe that there's a hardware design problem. If you three don't share this opinion, great, you expressed this. I won't post nothing more on this but I oppose on closing this thread. Over the last two years too many threads dealing with the same problems have been closed or archived without finding a valid answer.

    Message was edited by: maitaimai
  • by R C-R,

    R C-R R C-R Oct 14, 2010 12:32 PM in response to maitaimai
    Level 6 (17,700 points)
    Oct 14, 2010 12:32 PM in response to maitaimai
    maitaimai wrote:
    For you this is nothing, there is no pattern, an individual problem.


    You still don't get it: I'm not saying it is an individual problem. I am saying that even if there have been several hundred reports of the same symptoms over the last two years or so, you cannot ignore that there are *hundreds of thousands* of iMacs of that vintage in use. Even if you figure that some have been retired, some are stressed more heavily than others, & many users with the same symptoms aren't reporting them anywhere, it still seems like a design or a widespread manufacturing defect should result in thousands of reports, if not here in Apple Discussions then somewhere.

    In particular, if the problem is so widespread then institutions that have dozens of these units should be seeing lots of them with these symptoms appearing. At least a few of them should be reporting this. I can't find any mention of this in any of the Mac oriented sites. I've even asked people I know & posted inquiries in newsgroups & other places likely to include institutional users, but so far nobody is reporting that a lot of their 3 to 4 year old iMacs are failing.

    Some iMacs this old will fail even if there is no widespread defect. Maybe all the reports are attributable to this -- with hundreds of thousands in use that isn't impossible. But maybe some or most are due to a manufacturing defect that can be traced to a particular factory or some period of manufacture. Without the serial number info that provides that data, there is no way we could know if this is true or not. With enough of that data, if it is true then it should be obvious.
  • by knorven,

    knorven knorven Oct 14, 2010 2:26 PM in response to GaBeech
    Level 1 (0 points)
    iTunes
    Oct 14, 2010 2:26 PM in response to GaBeech
    The sad thing is that we have no way of making Apple listen to us, or in any way acknowledge any issue with the X1600 GPU. Most Mac users are far from as stubborn as we are and therefore do not read these forums and do not search the internet for answers. They call Apple and get the same brush off as we have and simply accept their fate and move on. The only way they will ever find out that they are part of a larger affected group is if information about this is broadcast on TV, radio or in newspapers/magazines.

    The number of affected people posting on this site will never reflect the true number of machines afflicted by this design flaw. This thread will eventually be closed as well and the ripples on the surface of the pond will disappear. No one gives a tiff in the end. Fixing dodgily designed machines is not worth the cost.

    Hopefully Apple will just learn from the design mistake and make the next generation of machines better. If you lose a few hundred, or thousand, customers in the process, well that's the cost of running a business. Face it guys; we're left high and dry here. I'm sick of talking to the hand and sick of my posts constantly being deleted even though many other posters' similar rants remain. I have moved on to other sites which are not censored.
  • by maitaimai,

    maitaimai maitaimai Oct 14, 2010 2:38 PM in response to R C-R
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 14, 2010 2:38 PM in response to R C-R
    R C-R wrote:
    maitaimai wrote:
    For you this is nothing, there is no pattern, an individual problem.


    You still don't get it: I'm not saying it is an individual problem. I am saying that even if there have been several hundred reports of the same symptoms over the last two years or so, you cannot ignore that there are *hundreds of thousands* of iMacs of that vintage in use. Even if you figure that some have been retired, some are stressed more heavily than others, & many users with the same symptoms aren't reporting them anywhere, it still seems like a design or a widespread manufacturing defect should result in thousands of reports, if not here in Apple Discussions then somewhere.


    There are a lot of reports = to many users
    But I'm glad that you got it!
    Other people mentioned links to places were this problem is addressed.


    In particular, if the problem is so widespread then institutions that have dozens of these units should be seeing lots of them with these symptoms appearing. At least a few of them should be reporting this. I can't find any mention of this in any of the Mac oriented sites. I've even asked people I know & posted inquiries in newsgroups & other places likely to include institutional users, but so far nobody is reporting that a lot of their 3 to 4 year old iMacs are failing.


    Within this thread somebody stated that 3 white iMacs failed within a short time frame. Moreover, iMacs of this generation weren't really introduced on an institutional level, that time back these machines were used by individuals. I haven't not seen many of these machines in universities or offices as a day-by-day computer for the whole stuff. Sorry. That's no point. Moreover: In these cases Apple will surely react and offer compensation or special sales, so these customers won't show up because Apple doesn't want to lose those customers if they really buy lots of machines. Apple treats frequent buyers or institutions better, we all know this.

    Some iMacs this old will fail even if there is no widespread defect. Maybe all the reports are attributable to this -- with hundreds of thousands in use that isn't impossible. But maybe some or most are due to a manufacturing defect that can be traced to a particular factory or some period of manufacture. Without the serial number info that provides that data, there is no way we could know if this is true or not. With enough of that data, if it is true then it should be obvious.

    n particular, if the problem is so widespread then institutions that have dozens of these units should be seeing lots of them with these symptoms appearing. At least a few of them should be reporting this.

    Well, you don't have any answers, just a belief system. You may say that mine is one, too. Ok. I stated that only Apple may offer the statistics we need. You say we're speculating. Your answers are speculations too. You get it?
  • by R C-R,

    R C-R R C-R Oct 15, 2010 5:24 AM in response to maitaimai
    Level 6 (17,700 points)
    Oct 15, 2010 5:24 AM in response to maitaimai
    What makes you think circa 2006 iMacs are not used by businesses? Locally, there is at least one independent company that specializes in sales & support of Macs to business customers. From what they say, Intel iMacs have been popular choices since they were first introduced, especially in 'front office' applications. Reports from independent financial analysts that follow AAPL have noted that the switch to Intel & the iMac's style, form factor, & quite operation contributed to steadily increasing year-over-year business sales, even at times when sales of Windows desktop computers were stagnant.

    More to the point, Apple is one of the most closely watched companies in the world. Widespread defects or complaints about any of its products make the news. It is a bit much to think that Apple could suppress this -- too many investigative reporters, consumer advocates, & financial analysts look for such things to make that possible. Defects that affect only a relatively small number of units are the ones most likely not to be deemed newsworthy, & that's why it is important for users that suspect they have one of them to share data that might reveal some factor those units have in common.

    It is really pretty simple: you need solid data to make a strong case & the more data you have, the better case you can make.
  • by maitaimai,

    maitaimai maitaimai Oct 15, 2010 5:58 AM in response to R C-R
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 15, 2010 5:58 AM in response to R C-R
    R C-R wrote:
    What makes you think circa 2006 iMacs are not used by businesses? Locally, there is at least one independent company that specializes in sales & support of Macs to business customers. From what they say, Intel iMacs have been popular choices since they were first introduced, especially in 'front office' applications. Reports from independent financial analysts that follow AAPL have noted that the switch to Intel & the iMac's style, form factor, & quite operation contributed to steadily increasing year-over-year business sales, even at times when sales of Windows desktop computers were stagnant.


    Impressive, you are really putting your three cents into it: Everything sounds convincing to the point that it could be Apple's Marketing Department responding here. No, the first Intel based iMacs weren't introduced on a broad basis in companies, universities, etc.


    More to the point, Apple is one of the most closely watched companies in the world. Widespread defects or complaints about any of its products make the news. It is a bit much to think that Apple could suppress this -- too many investigative reporters, consumer advocates, & financial analysts look for such things to make that possible. Defects that affect only a relatively small number of units are the ones most likely not to be deemed newsworthy, & that's why it is important for users that suspect they have one of them to share data that might reveal some factor those units have in common.


    Exactly for that reason companies like Apple try to avoid the negative impact caused by investigating or admitting that they had severe production or hardware design problems. It happens and companies try to avoid this at any cost. Please, that's business logic. To say a company is watched is like saying they will do everything for the customers. No, they first try to content their shareholders. Nevertheless, it wouldn't be the first time. Apple in the past had to admit problems after hard pressure.

    It is really pretty simple: you need solid data to make a strong case & the more data you have, the better case you can make.


    Yeah, for sure, but your predisposition is clear: You don't see the case. I see it. So we won't come to terms because for you hundreds of users that reported on the problem within this forum in dozens of related threads are "no basis", for me they are a good basis to extrapolate that the problem needs investigation.
  • by R C-R,

    R C-R R C-R Oct 15, 2010 7:59 AM in response to maitaimai
    Level 6 (17,700 points)
    Oct 15, 2010 7:59 AM in response to maitaimai
    Yeah, for sure, but your predisposition is clear: You don't see the case. I see it.


    Nope. I just see a different case as much more probable than the one you do. The key difference is how widespread the problems have to be to reasonably support one or another case. For a fundamental design defect, very large numbers of units would have to be affected. For a widespread manufacturing defect (one involving several factories and/or long manufacturing periods), fewer but still a large number would have to be. For a more limited manufacturing defect (say one that affected one factory's output for a few weeks or months), proportionally fewer units would be affected. And so on.

    I believe the first case is unsupportable without contrived theories that among other things require one to accept that Apple can fool essentially all professional financial analysts, reporters, & consumer protection advocates. I reject that case because I believe such theories are based on a combination of wishful thinking & naivety, plus an unwillingness to look for any facts that contradict it.

    The other two cases are much more plausible & don't require any contrived theories or leave any facts unexplained.
  • by maitaimai,

    maitaimai maitaimai Oct 15, 2010 9:11 AM in response to R C-R
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 15, 2010 9:11 AM in response to R C-R
    R C-R wrote:
    Yeah, for sure, but your predisposition is clear: You don't see the case. I see it.


    Nope. I just see a different case as much more probable than the one you do. The key difference is how widespread the problems have to be to reasonably support one or another case. For a fundamental design defect, very large numbers of units would have to be affected. For a widespread manufacturing defect (one involving several factories and/or long manufacturing periods), fewer but still a large number would have to be. For a more limited manufacturing defect (say one that affected one factory's output for a few weeks or months), proportionally fewer units would be affected. And so on.


    Nobody is asking for your support. You're not able to help. All your points are wishful thinking. Without data neither my position nor your position is more or less valid. Once again, only Apple can bring some light into this. They have the data we need. As long as there is no such information I will, for good reasons, assume that my machine suffers a hardware design defect. For me there are too many identical stories to just believe that it was only bad luck or a manufacturing problem in one of the plants.


    I believe the first case is unsupportable without contrived theories that among other things require one to accept that Apple can fool essentially all professional financial analysts, reporters, & consumer protection advocates. I reject that case because I believe such theories are based on a combination of wishful thinking & naivety, plus an unwillingness to look for any facts that contradict it.

    You blow the thing up into dimensions with the only purpose to show me off as a conspiracy fanatic or a lunatic. No. Your belief system is that strong that you're not able to even think of Apple in "slightly" bad ways. What I exposed is all too normal. So what's your point here. Analysts and professionals won't deal with something that affects computer generations of the past. In my opinion Apple's strategy is to ignore the problem because they don't have to expect that journalists or media dives into the problem. It's not important from a global view point. For me it's important. On the long term, nevertheless, this will have a negative impact because the reputation of Apple within the consumer community will diminish.

    The other two cases are much more plausible & don't require any contrived theories or leave any facts unexplained.


    Once again: You have no help to offer and the facts are unexplained. You throw the problem back to the affected users. To summarize your theory:

    - bad luck
    - nothing you can do about it
    - never ever search for a pattern, there is no one and there will never be one.
    - I'm the one who can guide you and tell you how to think about the problem

    For heavens sake there are enough voices that don't share your opinion nor your intentions.
  • by elice82@,

    elice82@ elice82@ Oct 15, 2010 1:33 PM in response to R C-R
    Level 1 (9 points)
    Oct 15, 2010 1:33 PM in response to R C-R
    Let's put it this way. A small quantity of iMacS have got problems. I don't mind if that involves X1600, 7300GT or 7600GT. It s....!
    It causes glitches, artifical defects, dead pixels, lines, horizontal lines, problems with playing video's this all happen within the 3 1/2 years.

    What can YOU do for US?
    Say something that means something and that leads towards a solution.
    We aren't the ones to do an investigation.
    Also we aren't experts, we are users, user who uses their computers. And simple we cannot do that propably.
    Apple built and designed these computers. So their the ones to solve these issue.
    AND THEY PRETTY D... KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON! BUT THEY WON"T TAKE RESPONSIBILITY!

    Second question:
    What do you think is normal ages for iMac to work properly? Or when do you find it normal when the light go out?
    Is that 21 months or 4 years (48 months)?

    I WON'T ANSWER SILLY QUESTION BECAUSE THEY WON'T HELP TO SOLVE OUR ISSUES.
    APPLE NEEDS TO ACT NOW. GROW UP! BE RESPONSIBLE!

    Message was edited by: elice82@
  • by elmac,

    elmac elmac Oct 15, 2010 1:43 PM in response to elice82@
    Level 5 (4,230 points)
    Oct 15, 2010 1:43 PM in response to elice82@
    Hi, A Suggestion:- All those who's computers are giving issues should book an appointment (asap & with an agreed time frame) @ the nearest Genius Bar..when the store is inundated with Macs that have these issues the Manager will take note as will the potential customers within the store.. More than 1 is a coincidence ~ 3 is a problem ~ 4 is a definite Issue ~ 5 this situation needs serious consideration..
    Let me point out, if you blea* here nothing will happen, I love Macs and personally have never doubted the customer service policies..others might...So Appointment Up!!! ..............L
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