1 2 3 4 Previous Next 49 Replies Latest reply: Apr 10, 2012 7:27 AM by paowee Branched to a new discussion.
jimthing Level 1 Level 1 (50 points)

How do I complain about how some moderation has been done on a thread?

 

I, and other legitimate users, have been completely unfairly moderated against due to a troll coming and ruining the conversation and not removing themselves from it when asked.

Then the troll in question went to another thread and said all our discussions were against the forum rules by talking about what he wrongly determined was a "rogue software" tool; WHICH IT MOST CERTAINLY IS NOT! — and the mods subsequently removing the wrong users posts.

 

When I went to complain in the forum repeatedly about this, then my legitimate posts about the troll in question were then themselves removed!

 

This WHOLE threaded conversation thus entirely ruined by the actions of the troll, which was then backed up by bad moderation, and leaves a really bad feeling with me, so how do I complain?

 

 

 

(What makes me angry, is that my very questioning the moderation and the troll a number of times in the thread, got those posts just removed without any *reasoning*, then resulted in me getting a threat of banning for having the nerve to want a response. This seems completely unjust, as a legitimate user trying to fight a troll ruining a whole thread.)



MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.6.7), 2.93GHz Core 2 Duo, 8GB RAM, 320 HD
  • 1. Re: Moderation: how do I complain?
    fjfjfjfjfjfjdksllair Level 2 Level 2 (315 points)

    If your posts were replies to the troll you're speaking of (I saw the threads) then they were removed when his stuff was removed. I'd imagine they also removed your discussion of said troll as well because without his posts, it made no sense. Multiple folks weren't on their best behavior in those threads. Don't feed the trolls.

  • 2. Re: Moderation: how do I complain?
    jimthing Level 1 Level 1 (50 points)

    The troll would NOT leave the conversation we were trying to have.

     

    And then when he didn't like that, he went running to the another *completely unrelated thread* to falsely complain about the topic of the discussion being illegal WHEN IT WAS NOT. The mods, for completely wrong reasons, then deleted the last sets of posts in the thread entirely without any due diligence for the facts.

     

    So again, how do I complain?


  • 3. Re: Moderation: how do I complain?
    stedman1 Level 9 Level 9 (52,230 points)

    Allow me to play devil's advocate. With your complaint, what are you hoping to accomplish? The offending thread(s) have been removed. Is there some form of punishment you wish to inflect on the "troll"?

     

    Stedman

  • 4. Re: Moderation: how do I complain?
    jimthing Level 1 Level 1 (50 points)

    I want due process. Nothing more, nothing less. Which users should be able to expect.

     

    And the clearing of this "threat to ban you" email, which was unfairly administered to me as a legitimate user, trying to question moderation reasoning.


  • 5. Re: Moderation: how do I complain?
    stedman1 Level 9 Level 9 (52,230 points)

    And due process in this case would be? A lashing? Banishment? The offender(s) sent to their room for the weekend?

     

    It's a forum, sometimes it isn't civilized, yet the world still turns.

     

    Stedman

  • 6. Re: Moderation: how do I complain?
    fjfjfjfjfjfjdksllair Level 2 Level 2 (315 points)

    Ha. I'm sure Apple will let you have due process.

     

    From wikipedia:

     

    Due process is the legal principle that the government must respect all of the legal rights that are owed to a person according to the law. Due process holds the government subservient to the law of the land protecting individual persons from the state. When a government harms a person without following the exact course of the law it constitutes a due process violation which offends against the rule of law.
  • 7. Re: Moderation: how do I complain?
    deggie Level 8 Level 8 (46,525 points)

    You've already made your official complaint here. The moderators will see it as they obviously did in the other thread. But you are dropping down to his level every time you respond to him, so I guess he wins every time. Ignore him, try to answer posts, and when you get 150 points you will be able to hit the Report Abuse button each time he does this. Other than that act like none of his posts exists, or, within the thread you are in if there is someone posting with 150 points ask them to hit the Report Abuse button. But you probably won't have to ask, they will have already done so.

     

    Based upon the behavior of both of you in the other thread in this forum I think I would have issued you both 14 day suspensions, you came off like 12 year old boys wrestling in the front yard. Take the high road and let the moderators handle it. And don't whine and complain if they moderators also send you a warning letter, learn from it and move on.

     

    EDIT: Sorry, didn't see your post where you did receive a letter, my advice stands. And my recommendation for a 14-day ban would also stand. So take your letter from the hosts construcively and move on. P.S. This is not a goverment site, you aren't entitled to any due process here.

     

    Message was edited by: deggie

  • 8. Re: Moderation: how do I complain?
    jimthing Level 1 Level 1 (50 points)

    That's not really true though. I WAS ignoring the other user, and advising others to also.

     

    My point is about how the mods wrongly removed LEGITIMATE discussion, on the say-so of this troll going off to report behind our backs in another completely unrelated thread, without them first checking the facts to find that the software being talked about was NOT illegal in any way.

     

    ...and I'm talking about due process under some procedure that the forums here should have in place for investigating complaints. Nothing to do with govmt law.


  • 9. Re: Moderation: how do I complain?
    deggie Level 8 Level 8 (46,525 points)

    If that is how you ignore someone then I must have another definition of the word.

     

    It is fully up to the moderators to monitor this site and per the terms of use they can remove anything here they see fit to. And you followed him to that thread and started arguing, which you call ignoring him? And you are back to here calling him names and complaining.

     

    If you do not care for the way our hosts run things here there are many forums out there not owned by Apple where you can post. Otherwise GET OVER IT, move on, help other users and stay away from the other guy. I agree he does not back up his statements with facts, he posts speculation (not permitted here) and he is an irritant. I'm sure he got his warning letter also. Or he may have been banned (they don't announce such things here, no public hangins in the ASC). But it isn't up to you what happens to him. The only thing you can control is your behavior. So decide to do so or move on. Your choice.

  • 10. Re: Moderation: how do I complain?
    Michael Wasley Level 5 Level 5 (6,810 points)

    jimthing wrote:

     

    I WAS ignoring the other user


    That was not what I saw in the thread prior to the justified moderation it underwent. You made antagonistic posts which deserved the warning you appear to have received.

     

    The thread appeared to get out of hand partly due to your actions, a point you may wish to consider now you have lodged your complaint and criticised moderation.

     

    This is Apple's patch and runs according to Apple's rules. If you don't like the perfectly reasonable moderation of these forums perhaps you would do better to go elsewhere. Alternatively take deggie's sound advice about your behaviour.

  • 11. Re: Moderation: how do I complain?
    babowa Level 7 Level 7 (23,300 points)

    (What makes me angry, is that my very questioning the moderation and the troll a number of times in the thread, got those posts just removed without any *reasoning*, then resulted in me getting a threat of banning for having the nerve to want a response. This seems completely unjust, as a legitimate user trying to fight a troll ruining a whole thread.)


    Interesting that you are now seeing yourself as a victim. I do remember several of your posts in other (earlier) threads being removed - all for good reason. That might be the reason for the letter you received. I chose not to report your attacks here:

     

    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3056874?start=30&tstart=0

     

    Antagonism does not belong here. Read the Terms of Use.

  • 12. Re: Moderation: how do I complain?
    Michael Wasley Level 5 Level 5 (6,810 points)

    babowa wrote:

     

    I chose not to report your attacks here:

    One of which has just disappeared!

  • 13. Re: Moderation: how do I complain?
    babowa Level 7 Level 7 (23,300 points)

    LOL.... actually more than one, but the amazing thing is that my reply is still there with enough of his quotes to be able to know what he called me; unfortunately his reply to that is gone as well.

  • 14. Re: Moderation: how do I complain?
    mikey macs Level 1 Level 1 (20 points)

    I like the way all you mods kick the reporter, rather than deal with his issue about the troll, while all patting yourselves on the back about how "fair" your all being about it.

     

    It looks to outsiders like a complete travesty, on how things are dealt with around here.

    Kicking the reporter of bad practice, rather than dealing with his issue.

     

    I also like the fact that the reporter, jimthing, had several of his (and other users) posts removed:

    https://discussions.apple.com/message/15496310#15496310

     

    This was done wrongly, as I was following the TRIM thread, which was talking about legal software that was fine to be talked about under forum rules, and so should not have been removed at the whim of this troll "jpcwa", who effectively killed the conversation, and has now ruined it completely, as backed-up by the mods on here.  All the valid posts I was following have been removed, leaving the troll to have his entirely wrong & argumentive posts left, including having his as the last post giving him validity.

     

    As for this thread:

    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3056874?start=30&tstart=0

     

    I like the way posts have been removed, so the threads concerned are not judging him fairly by taking thngs out of the context in which they were originally added. Anyone can see that.

    Except for a slightly harmless lighthearted joke about brain's which babowa got on his high-horse about rather than having a sense of humour, Jimthing made perfectly valid points in the second one about babowa's comments being untrue to list the email address everyone was having problems about.

     

    I suppose you'll ban him anyway, out of spite (perhaps me too, for also daring to question mods practice). As it seems the level of "fairness" around here is to bash the reporter of a bad deed and discredit THEM, rather than deal with the reporters issue itself.

     

    Moderation? What moderation. There's nothing "moderate" about it around here.

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