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Snow Leopard means no more Appletalk

191342 Views 194 Replies Latest reply: Jun 12, 2013 1:41 PM by Grant Bennet-Alder RSS
  • Grant Bennet-Alder Level 8 Level 8 (48,140 points)
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    Jan 27, 2011 4:56 PM (in response to Frederick Van Veen)
    AppleTalk was an amazing achievement in its day. Long before the RJ-45 twisted pair Ethernet we know today, It allowed some very early Macintosh and other computers to share files and printers at a speed of 240,000 bits/sec over essentially telephone wire.

    But the AppleTalk protocol (even AppleTalk-over-Ethernet) does not use IP Addresses. It has its own private Addressing scheme. It uses the same Highway as TCP/IP, but does not interact with it in any way.

    I am sad to see AppleTalk being phased out. But the fact remains that there is no substantial new development going on using AppleTalk -- inside Apple or out.
    Beige G3, G4/867, G4/dual 1.25 MDD, MacPro'09 w cheap SSD, Mac OS 8.6 or Earlier, and 9.2, 10.5 and Server - LW IIg, LW 4/600, ATalk ImageWriter LQ
  • Frederick Van Veen Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 29, 2011 7:35 AM (in response to John Galt)
    Judging by the volume of comments on this subject, there is a market for a solution, if there is a knowledgeable and ambitious entrepreneur around. One last question: Does the issue change in any way depending on whether the Farallon EtherMac adapter is connected directly to the computer or through a router? I can't think that it should, but maybe I'm missing something.
    Desktop G4
  • Grant Bennet-Alder Level 8 Level 8 (48,140 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 29, 2011 8:33 AM (in response to Frederick Van Veen)
    Frederick Van Veen-

    Does the issue change in any way depending on whether the Farallon EtherMac adapter is connected directly to the computer or through a router?


    Generally no, but there is one narrow case where it can make a difference, in certain off-brand Routers and Switches. The difference is that it does not work at all.

    To understand why, you need to know a little more about the internal operation of Switches and Routers. These devices accept the entire incoming packet, store it momentarily, check the checksums and other fields for validity, then forward only the Valid packets. Packet fragments and Invalid packets are discarded. This is referred to in the Industry as "Store and Forward" technology.

    The trouble with certain devices is that they were not tested with AppleTalk packets, only with IP packets. They reject AppleTalk packets as invalid IP packets, and refuse to forward them. So AppleTalk packets do not pass through such equipment. The problem is more prevalent on off-brand Wireless networks.

    Major Brand Switches and Routers do not have this problem. Most are "Apple-aware", and have been tested and "fixed" to allow AppleTalk packets on both wired and wireless.
    Beige G3, G4/867, G4/dual 1.25 MDD, MacPro'09 w cheap SSD, Mac OS 8.6 or Earlier, and 9.2, 10.5 and Server - LW IIg, LW 4/600, ATalk ImageWriter LQ
  • Frederick Van Veen Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 30, 2011 7:40 AM (in response to Grant Bennet-Alder)
    Since mine is a plain vanilla Linksys router, I gather that its presence or absence makes no difference.
    The LW 320 worked perfectly with my G4 desktop (10.4.11). Is there any point in recreating that setup, determining the settings (including the IP), and then trying to duplicate them with the new MacMini? Or is it a lost cause?
    I really appreciate your sharing your considerable knowledge with me, Grant.
    Fred
    Desktop G4
  • Grant Bennet-Alder Level 8 Level 8 (48,140 points)
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    Jan 30, 2011 1:18 PM (in response to Frederick Van Veen)
    AppleTalk simply does not use IP Addresses. It is like a parallel universe that uses the same Ethernet cabling for a Highway, but does not interact with IP packets in any way.

    Apple removed support for Appletalk Printing in 10.6 Snow Leopard, so users without another port on their printers (like you and like me) are stuck with some awkward solutions.
    Beige G3, G4/867, G4/dual 1.25 MDD, MacPro'09 w cheap SSD, Mac OS 8.6 or Earlier, and 9.2, 10.5 and Server - LW IIg, LW 4/600, ATalk ImageWriter LQ
  • Frederick Van Veen Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 31, 2011 6:19 AM (in response to Grant Bennet-Alder)
    Time to throw in the towel. But I will keep my G4 desktop in storage, rather than give it away. Thanks for your advice and patience, Grant.
    Fred
    Desktop G4
  • WoosterBoy Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Jun 22, 2011 7:19 PM (in response to Grant Bennet-Alder)

    If you had at least one Mac still running 10.5 or earlier, you could share that printer with the other computers on your Network and continue to print to it using Printer Sharing. The Mac doing the Sharing would accept print jobs from the other computers as long as it was powered up and running when you wanted to print.

    Thanks for this Grant, it solved my problem of printing to a 1996 LaserWriter 12/640 than still prints great looking documents. I used a G5 as my print "server" with sharing of the 12/640 turned on, and successfully printed to it from a networked MBP running 10.6.6.

     

     

    After it is Shared, go to another Mac and add an LPR print queue (virtual printer) that forwards the print jobs to the Shared Printer.

    What do you mean by adding an LPR print queue? Would that make the process any better?

  • Grant Bennet-Alder Level 8 Level 8 (48,140 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 22, 2011 8:02 PM (in response to WoosterBoy)

    WoosterBoy-

     

    You instinctively did what was right. You added a Printer on your 10.6 Mac. The one available was the shared printer. Done.

     

    In older versions of the software, the add-a-printer process can be much more arduous. In OS 9, you would have to describe it in detail without being able to see it, thus you specify it as an LPR Printer.

    Beige G3, G4/867, G4/dual 1.25 MDD, MacPro'09 w cheap SSD, Mac OS 8.6 or Earlier, and 9.2, 10.5 and Server - LW IIg, LW 4/600, ATalk ImageWriter L
  • timmer21 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Jul 11, 2011 2:18 PM (in response to John Galt)

    Does anyone know if this is a solution for a LW 320, mini (10.6) and Airport Extreme set up?

    http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtSeriesID=849&txtModelID=3915

    I have not been able to set up the printer otherwise.

    If not - any steps or suggestions to get it to work?

  • Grant Bennet-Alder Level 8 Level 8 (48,140 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 11, 2011 8:26 PM (in response to timmer21)

    timmer21-

     

    If connection to the Printer were the ONLY issue, (which it is NOT) that device might do the trick.

     

    But Alas, support for any form of AppleTalk (the only protocol your printer can talk) has been removed from Mac OS X 10.6.

     

    Some users are using an older Mac, still running 10.5 or earlier, to act a a Print Spooler.

    Others have found a Printer Server that can do AppleTalk, such as some from HP.

    Some have given up on their great old Apple Personal Printers and bought a new Brother Laser Printer or something else.

     

    This discussion has over 185 entries, so if you want to know what others are using, just read some of the older entries.

    Beige G3, G4/867, G4/dual 1.25 MDD, MacPro'09 w cheap SSD, Mac OS 8.6 or Earlier, and 9.2, 10.5 and Server - LW IIg, LW 4/600, ATalk ImageWriter L
  • timmer21 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 12, 2011 5:53 AM (in response to Grant Bennet-Alder)

    Thanks Grant.

    I will see what else there is and any suggestions others had.

    Tim

  • Redpackman Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 12, 2013 9:29 AM (in response to Frank Reed)

    Thank you Frank. Your suggestions worked when NOTHING else had. I have a Laserwriter 16/600 and was trying to print form a MacBook Pro using Snow Leopard (10.6.8). Originally the IP address of the Laswerwriter had been 192.168.1.6 but nothing would work with that IP. I tried to ping it using the Network Utility. Nothing. If I told it to print something using the same exact IP set up I eventually used to get this one running the printer could not be found. But then I changed the IP address using an old computer running classic and the Printer Utility program that runs in OS 9 and changed it to 10.0.1.2 and it WORKED!

     

    Why would it work with your suggested IP address and NOT the other one?

  • Grant Bennet-Alder Level 8 Level 8 (48,140 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 12, 2013 1:41 PM (in response to Redpackman)

    Computers can communicate freely with others on the same subnet, without Router intervention. So if the IP Address is within your subnet (typically the same high-order numbers as your Mac with a different last octet) it can communicate fine.

     

    Ethernet Routers tend to establish a Network around 192.168.0.1 or something similar.

    WiFi Routers tend to establish a network around 10.0.0.1 or something similar.

     

    Look at Your Router address (or your computer address) and assign one that is similar, but not identical, and high enough to be "out of the way", but not over .254

    Mac Pro (Early 2009), Mac OS X (10.6.8), & Server, PPC, & AppleTalk Printers
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