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User profile for user: Grant Symon
Grant Symon Author
User level: Level 2
245 points

Serious Colorsync issue

I've just submitted this as a bug-report, but would be interested in seeing if any of you here are NOT experiencing this. I have confirmed the bug with a colleague, so I have no doubt it is standard behaviour for Aperture 3.x (This problem does not exist in Aperture 2.x)


____________________________________________________________________


Images (e.g. tiffs) imported into Aperture 3 are not having their ColorSync Profiles handled correctly. This becomes apparent when working with heavily saturated colours outside sRGB.


Wide-Gamut images imported into Aperture 3 (even a moderately large gamut such as AdobeRGB) are having colours remapped into a space that I am unable to identify but which is considerably smaller than the actual space of the images. NB they are being remapped but NOT converted. So colours change.


In order to see this issue very clearly, it is helpful to use a wide-gamut monitor (one capable of displaying AdobeRGB). A normal (Apple) LCD which is capable of displaying a gamut close to sRGB, will not show the discrepancies in colour as clearly (but they are still there).


Try this :


1) Save image (tiff) from Photoshop in AdobeRGB, which contains colours outside sRGB (example ; a flat-colour fill : R-72, G-182, B-70).

2) Observe image with DigitalColor Meter.app (and ideally large gamut monitor)

3) Import image into Aperture 3

4) Observe image with DigitalColor Meter.app (and ideally large gamut monitor)


EXPECTED RESULTS:

The colours in the image should remain identical to its original state.


ACTUAL RESULTS:

It is clear that colours in Aperture 3 have been totally changed.


Exporting the image from Aperture, as a Master, then opening in Photoshop : The image colours remain true to the original.

Exporting the image from Aperture, as a VERSION, then opening in Photoshop : The image colours have been definitively altered.

(No Aperture adjustments applied).


NB ... this bug was NOT present in Aperture 2.1.4


(I have been working professionally with high-end digital imaging for 15 years. I have confirmed this behaviour with a colleague, who is also an experienced digital imager (beta tester on HP LF printers)


Screen-Grabs illustrating the issue can be downloaded here : https://public.me.com/grantsymon

Posted on Jul 14, 2011 5:58 AM

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User profile for user: Grant Symon
Grant Symon Author
User level: Level 2
245 points

Jul 14, 2011 6:41 AM in response to Ir. Bob

1/ No accidental soft proofing in Aperture.


2/ Exporting as a version using 'Source' profile. Confirmed when opening in PS, as having AdobeRGB embedded.



Do you have a wide-gamut monitor Bob? Even if you don't, you can still just make out the difference (visually) on a good sRGB style display. Of course, you can see the difference either way, with the DigitalColor Meter.app. Visually, if you have a monitor that can display those colours, the difference is pretty gigantic. (I have a printer that can print them too.)

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User profile for user: Grant Symon
Grant Symon Author
User level: Level 2
245 points

Jul 15, 2011 1:58 AM in response to m stan

I've tested on 3.1.2 and on 3.1.3.


In fact, I've tested quite extensively, so I'm a little surprised to see that you don't have the problem. Did you use the DigitalColor Meter.app? (Knowing that a large(ish) percentage of men cannot distinguish green very well).


I've tested on 3 installations of the OS on 2 separate computers (one having 2 int HDs). Using a brand new library with only the test images in it. I've used the in-build monitor profiles and verified on a separate systems without the wide-gamut display. I have used 2 versions of CS. I confirmed instantly and easily that Aperture 2.1.4 doesn't suffer the problem and once I'd exhausted everything I could think of, I had it confirmed in less than 3 minutes by a colleague who really knows what he's doing (writes books on PS and tests large format printers for HP and uses Aperture for image archiving, as I do).


I can't see where this could be different, other than language specific OS installs, which I do in fact know have an effect on Aperture. There are bugs in the French language install, that don't exist in the English language install. However, I'm using the English language install. Oh yes ... I've tested on 10.6.x and on another we may be seeing soon. What version of the OS are you using?

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User profile for user: m stan
m stan
User level: Level 1
5 points

Jul 15, 2011 6:22 AM in response to Grant Symon

I used the DigitalColor Meter app. (note: mine is set to "RGB as Actual Value, 8-bit" as I don't get the "native resolution" drop down selection that you use; don't know if this makes any difference). Since I don't have Photoshop, I used a raw photo with a large patch of uniform blue sky and converted to .tiff in NX2, imported .tiff to Aperture, made a side-by-side measurement, then exported the .tiff unchanged from Aperture as a version and measured again. Numbers were the same or differed by +- 1. I did the same thing with your green png samples with the same results. I also did a second test with AP 3.1.2 - same result. I used OS X 10.6.8 and 10.6.7. Can you send me the original .tiffs you used and I will retest?

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User profile for user: Grant Symon
Grant Symon Author
User level: Level 2
245 points

Jul 15, 2011 8:15 AM in response to m stan

I have now run yet another test, which seems to me to be even more conclusive that there is an issue. Perhaps it's a ColorSync issue, but that seems unlikely because other Mac apps do not display the problem.


I installed Aperture 3 on an iMac, that has never been used for imaging. Took my flat colour file, which has AdobeRGB assigned as the profile and which I created in PS and imported it into Aperture. Instant colour change. Here's a grab, converted to sRGB for web viewing, but you can still see the difference quite clearly. This Mac does not have PS installed, so the comparison is Preview.app vs Aperture 3.

http://www.grantsymon-client.com/Grabs/Grab_ApertureBR_iMac.png


You can download my test file here :


files.me.com/grantsymon/gh4zaq

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User profile for user: Grant Symon
Grant Symon Author
User level: Level 2
245 points

Jul 15, 2011 2:15 PM in response to m stan

That wouldn't work.


The blue end of the colour spaces are very similar, so you won't see any shifting, or, it would be very subtle.


I don't know how much you know about this stuff, but if you open ColorSync Utility and select the AdobeRGB colour space, then in the diagram on the right, click on the little black triangle and select 'Hold for comparison', then go back to the list and select sRGB, you will see a representation of the 2 colour spaces super-imposed.


You will see that it is the green end that is vastly different between the two spaces. (Note that you can grab the diagram and spin it around to see a full 3D representation.)

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User profile for user: m stan
m stan
User level: Level 1
5 points

Jul 15, 2011 10:10 PM in response to m stan

This calls to mind Steve Jobs' famous reply to his MobileMe team when he asked what it is supposed to do: when told he replied, "Well then why the f**k doesn't it do that?" I might ask the same thing of Aperture. It is supposed to faithfully reproduce photographs, including the color, right? Well then, why the f**k doesn't it do that?

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User profile for user: CorkyO2
CorkyO2
User level: Level 4
1,290 points

Jul 15, 2011 10:17 PM in response to Grant Symon

Grant Symon wrote:


I have now run yet another test, which seems to me to be even more conclusive that there is an issue. Perhaps it's a ColorSync issue, but that seems unlikely because other Mac apps do not display the problem.


I installed Aperture 3 on an iMac, that has never been used for imaging. Took my flat colour file, which has AdobeRGB assigned as the profile and which I created in PS and imported it into Aperture. Instant colour change. Here's a grab, converted to sRGB for web viewing, but you can still see the difference quite clearly. This Mac does not have PS installed, so the comparison is Preview.app vs Aperture 3.

http://www.grantsymon-client.com/Grabs/Grab_ApertureBR_iMac.png


You can download my test file here :


files.me.com/grantsymon/gh4zaq


FWIW,


After testing with the downloaded .TIFF file; same result here with difference between original and exported version (even when both files viewed in Preview).


Using PS CS5 to create a PSD test file, I also reproduced the same issue with an imported PSD file into AP 3.1.3 of same color and compared to a subsequent version export. Note - made sure export was set to 'Adobe RGB (1998)'.


It appears Aperture is definitely changing the original Adobe RGB (1998) on export (or import) - not a color space guru here.


System specs: Mac Pro (early 2008) 2.8 QC w/ ACD 23" monitor running OS X 10.6.8.


Even on the ACD monitor, the issue is clearly present.


Not good. Will send bug report. 😉


Message was edited by: CorkyO2 to add: "(or import) - not a color space guru here"

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Serious Colorsync issue

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