roelfrombarcelona

Q: harddisk not found on reboot

Hello,

 

I am relatively new to mac (more a pc user). However my girlfriend has an iMac (early 2008 model, 24inch, 4GB memory, 500GB Harddrive) that started to run slow. So she asked me to check it out. I have bought osX Lion, burnt it on DVD and reintalled the machine. It has not been 100% successfull, even though I doubt it comes from the osX. The first issue was that the machine frooze while using. With the help of google I found posts about heat issues and that a program called smcFanControl can solve that. So I installed, and indeed it work pretty well as long as the machine does not turn into sleep mode. In case it does, it most cases it freezes. Then when trying to reboot, the blinking folder appears indicating that there is not startup disk. Starting from the Lion DVD and using Disk utility, I can see that the harddrive is not listed. Waiting an hour or so, the machine starts and runs smoothly.

 

So my questions are:

- could I conclude that the issue I have is caused by overheating?

- what can I do to prevent this from happening?

 

Any insight, advice, help is much appreciated.

 

Merci,

 

Roel

iMac, Mac OS X (10.7)

Posted on Jul 28, 2011 10:49 AM

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Q: harddisk not found on reboot

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  • by MGW,Helpful

    MGW MGW Jul 28, 2011 12:03 PM in response to roelfrombarcelona
    Level 7 (27,026 points)
    Jul 28, 2011 12:03 PM in response to roelfrombarcelona

    Sounds like a thermal problem - go to Applications>Utilities>Console and in the little window on the top right of the Console window, enter "maximum temperature exceeded".

     

    Se what that throws up.

     

     

     

     

     

    excellentsig2-1.png

  • by WZZZ,Helpful

    WZZZ WZZZ Jul 28, 2011 12:43 PM in response to roelfrombarcelona
    Level 6 (13,112 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jul 28, 2011 12:43 PM in response to roelfrombarcelona

    >So I installed, and indeed it work pretty well as long as the machine does not turn into sleep mode. In case it does, it most cases it freezes.

     

    See what comes up with Miriam's suggestion to check the logs for a thermal shutdown or sleep. But I would think that in sleep the machine would run cooler and would be less likely to freeze. So I'm not sure why the freezes are occurring then.

     

    That you're getting the flashing folder question mark makes me wonder about the drive. I would check the drive out using the free demo of SMART Utility.

     

    http://www.volitans-software.com/smart_utility.php

     

    Also, get free Temperature Monitor and post back with the temps, preferably in Celsius or Celsius/Fahrenheit. Use the camera icon to post a screenshot.

     

    http://www.bresink.com/osx/TemperatureMonitor.html

     

    The 24's are somewhat known for drive problems due to overheating.

  • by roelfrombarcelona,

    roelfrombarcelona roelfrombarcelona Jul 28, 2011 2:23 PM in response to roelfrombarcelona
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 28, 2011 2:23 PM in response to roelfrombarcelona

    Thanks Mirian and Wzzz for replies. Besides your quick responses I had more luck . The mac did not find want to find the harddrive when I wanted to look for your suggestions. The machine was turned off for an hour. The third time I started, it worked. So I went to the Console that Miriam mentioned, and I copied all entries and pasted them into this pdf. I looked for the message "maximum temperatur exceeded": no results. Then I downloaded the SMART utility that Wzzz mentioned and it immediately gives in yellow FAILING for overall smart status. There are 2 errors of type Address Mark Not Found. First error happened after command "READ FPDMA QUEUED", second error happened after "READ DMA EXT". I executed a "Long" test run and it detected a read failure with 90% remaining. (I also ran "Disk Utility" with option "Verify Disk", and there were no errors.)

    So what are my options? I guess it is not the temperature and there is an issue with the harddrive. Tips on how to fix the issues?

     

    Much obliged for your help.

     

    Merci,

     

    Roel

     

    (ps. regarding temperatures: I installed the widget Istate pro before installing the smcFanControl. I saw that the temperature of the harddrive went up to 60-62 degree Celcius. With the smcFanControl I keep the temperature between the 40 and 50 degrees.)

  • by WZZZ,

    WZZZ WZZZ Jul 28, 2011 2:58 PM in response to roelfrombarcelona
    Level 6 (13,112 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jul 28, 2011 2:58 PM in response to roelfrombarcelona

    The drive is failing. It may have suffered from long term heat damage. The very first thing to do, since the drive may die completely at any moment, is make sure you have everything backed up, as soon as possible. You will need to replace the drive or, if you have a bootable clone on an external drive, you can continue running from there.

     

    If the internal drive holds out long enough and you have an external, you can use (free) Carbon Copy Cloner, or SuperDuper, to make a bootable clone.

     

    http://www.bombich.com/

     

    I use and recommend smcFan, but don't overdo it. You want to make five settings above the defaults, each in higher increments of about 15 or 20%, up to around 2K. You want to run the fans at the most conservative setting to get the drive temp down to the range you mentined. 60-62 for the drive is far too hot. I find that it also helps to run a fan at the back of the computer. This will help dissipate the case heat. To avoid burning up the motors, I generally don't run the fans much higher than three or four hundred rpms above the defaults. And, I like to run them at lower speeds, if I can.

  • by roelfrombarcelona,

    roelfrombarcelona roelfrombarcelona Jul 28, 2011 3:15 PM in response to WZZZ
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 28, 2011 3:15 PM in response to WZZZ

    Thanks for your quick reply Wzzz. Cloning the system on a external harddrive would make the system run slower, right? Haha, slower is better than nothing .

    What would you recommend, I bought the machine in january 2009. Would it be worth to replace the harddrive or would it be better just to buy a new machine?

    A last question (for now), do iMacs still have a heat issue? I mean, I love the compactness but if that means the hardware deteriorates quicker, it is not worth it in my opinion (and 2.5 years I don't consider that old).

     

    Merci,

     

    Roel

  • by WZZZ,Solvedanswer

    WZZZ WZZZ Jul 28, 2011 3:36 PM in response to roelfrombarcelona
    Level 6 (13,112 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jul 28, 2011 3:36 PM in response to roelfrombarcelona

    An external run on Firewire 800 will run pretty fast. May just take a bit longer to boot up. I know someone else who was in this predicament with a 24, but he had AppleCare and that took care of replacing the drive and the power supply, which was also failing. In your case, I don't know. In general, replacing a drive, is far less expensive than a new machine. I'd get it fixed, but that's for you to decide.

     

    I think this may have been a particular issue with these 24s. I haven't heard of any issues with heat like this with the newer iMacs. But, I've always felt that the fans aren't ramped up quickly enough to deal with heat in any of the iMacs. Apple appears to prefer selling computers with quiet fans to making the hardware last. That said, I don't hear the fans even when ramped up three or four hundred rpms. If your fans were letting the drive into the sixties, then I think that's a likely cause of the failure.

     

    If you run a fan at the back, use smcFan and keep the air intake vents clean by periodically vacuuming, that should help keep the heat under control.

  • by roelfrombarcelona,

    roelfrombarcelona roelfrombarcelona Jul 29, 2011 1:03 AM in response to WZZZ
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 29, 2011 1:03 AM in response to WZZZ

    All clear to my now. Thanks Wzzz!

     

    I will go for the repair option. Once repaired I will install the temparature monitor you suggested to keep track instead of Istate pro..

     

    You wrote that a friend of yours also had his powersupply repaired. Is there a way to check if that would be my case too?

     

    Thanks for all your info.

     

    Merci,

     

    Roel

  • by roelfrombarcelona,

    roelfrombarcelona roelfrombarcelona Jul 29, 2011 5:32 AM in response to roelfrombarcelona
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 29, 2011 5:32 AM in response to roelfrombarcelona

    Just to be complete and to maybe help determine if there is any other heat issue, I have attached a screenshot of the temparatures (temperatures taken by Bresink Temperatur Monitor). I have done this actually after cloning the HD to an external HD and running from the external HD. I don't know if that might have an impact on the numbers.

     

    Thanks again for all.

     

    Merci,

     

    Roel

     

    2011-07-29_temperatures.gif

     

    Maybe interesting to mention is that eventhough running from the external HD, the temperature indicated by Islate pro, varies from 50 to 75 degrees Celcius. Should/can the internal HD be disconnected? (Next week I will go to an apple center for HD replacement.)

  • by WZZZ,

    WZZZ WZZZ Jul 29, 2011 5:44 AM in response to roelfrombarcelona
    Level 6 (13,112 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jul 29, 2011 5:44 AM in response to roelfrombarcelona

    When you bring it in, they should run the full suite of diagnostics and be able to see if the power supply is involved.

     

    My default/idle fan rpms are different from yours, but this will give you an idea of my settings. During the winter, I run at the default, or close. Recently, we had some very hot weather here. The room ambient was around 36 and with running the fan at the back, I wasn't going higher than the "hot" setting and the drive wasn't climbing  above 50. But in that kind of hot and humid weather, I avoid running the computer for long periods, allowing it to sleep and cool off more often.When it's like that, no amount of blowing hot air around is going to help that much. I try to run the fans as conservatively as possible.

     

    The fan is a small clip-on fan mounted to the wall with a bracket to eliminate vibration on the computer desk. It is aimed upwards at the hottest part of the back, which is usually the upper left as you are facing the screen. It is quite close, about 6" (15.5 cm) from the back. If you run smcFan and a fan at the back, there will be more dust accumulation at the air intake grilles (along the bottom where the speakers are located and there may be one behind the stand, as well) since more air is being sucked in. So periodic vacuuming is really a must. Keep the area around the computer as free of dust as possible.

     

    Screen shot 2011-07-18 at 4.38.41 PM.png

     

    Screen shot 2011-07-18 at 4.38.55 PM.png

    Screen shot 2011-07-18 at 4.39.16 PM.png

    Screen shot 2011-07-18 at 4.39.28 PM.pngScreen shot 2011-07-18 at 4.39.38 PM.png

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Jul 29, 2011 5:36 AM in response to roelfrombarcelona
    Level 9 (50,871 points)
    Desktops
    Jul 29, 2011 5:36 AM in response to roelfrombarcelona

    Did you backup your girlfriends computer before you did this?

  • by roelfrombarcelona,

    roelfrombarcelona roelfrombarcelona Jul 29, 2011 5:54 AM in response to WZZZ
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 29, 2011 5:54 AM in response to WZZZ

    Thanks again Wzzz for all the details. Absolutely great!

     

    To Csound: yes, before installing the Lion OSX I copied the important data to an external disk. With the knowledge I have now, it might not have been necessary to whipe the HD and I could just migrate the previous OSX to Lion through an external HD. Well, at least I know more about the mac.

     

    Merci,

     

    Roel

  • by WZZZ,

    WZZZ WZZZ Jul 29, 2011 5:57 AM in response to roelfrombarcelona
    Level 6 (13,112 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jul 29, 2011 5:57 AM in response to roelfrombarcelona

    I don't like the power supply at 72. And 75 for the drive is deadly.

     

    Here are my fan defaults, not included above.

     

    Screen shot 2011-07-18 at 4.46.06 PM.png

     

    And, some "normal" temps in hot, but not extremely hot, weather. The computer was only being used for browsing, nothing graphics intensive. Temps will, naturally, climb up with anything CPU or graphics intensive  This is from Hardware Monitor, the more complete, but paid, version of Temperature Monitor.

     

    Temps (summer) screenshot.png

  • by aRKay,

    aRKay aRKay Aug 17, 2011 2:45 PM in response to MGW
    Level 2 (209 points)
    Notebooks
    Aug 17, 2011 2:45 PM in response to MGW

    I entered

     

    maximum temperature exceeded

     

    in the Condole and nothing showed up.  Hopefully, this means mine has not exceeded the max temp.

     

    I use the smcFAN at the default setting until things get warm then bump it up for while.

     

    The hot spot in my iMac is the airport card