1 4 5 6 7 8 Previous Next 383 Replies Latest reply: Dec 20, 2013 6:34 PM by louisinhongkong Go to original post Branched to a new discussion.
  • 75. Re: How do I tell Lion to disable the LCD screen even when the lid is open?
    luisgibe Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    same problem here. The only way it works is with the magnet trick. And yep, it's kind of sad...

     

    Apple, we want this feature back! there is no reason to remove it from your OS!

  • 76. Re: How do I tell Lion to disable the LCD screen even when the lid is open?
    alexanderfrompalmdale Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    In an effort to get Apple's attention, I've made a video showing just how ridiculous the performance drop is with a closed lid.

     

    I also made it unedited to show exactly how easy it is to replicate the problem.

     

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg_oxvdK5aU

     

     

    Additionally, here is a screen shot comparison of two previous speed tests. It is easy to tell which one is closed and which one is open. Absolutely ridiculous.

     

     

    /___sbsstatic___/migration-images/157/15796751-1.png

  • 77. Re: How do I tell Lion to disable the LCD screen even when the lid is open?
    jbarresi19 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    This is crazy they wont fix this and I am actually thinking of using a magnet to fix this...I can not find the spot to put the magnet on my 2010 white macbook. Does anyone know where it goes exactly? Any help would be appreciated

  • 78. Re: How do I tell Lion to disable the LCD screen even when the lid is open?
    tjk Level 7 Level 7 (24,150 points)

    Alexander, super job! Thank you for providing solid proof.

  • 79. Re: How do I tell Lion to disable the LCD screen even when the lid is open?
    tjk Level 7 Level 7 (24,150 points)

    jbarresi19 wrote:

     

    This is crazy they wont fix this and I am actually thinking of using a magnet to fix this...

     

    Getting a large corporation to change anything is very difficult, so I'm happy that it seems like they're at least listening to us. I have to admit, I've just been working around it, figuring it was useless to put much effort into getting things changed. I now actually have some hope. And no, we shouldn't have to do any of this, it seems like common sense to us. I mean really, why not give the user the choice to have one monitor on, or the other, or both, with the display open or closed (except no option to have the closed display turned on, that would be rather useless)? Why not? Can anyone even think of a reason here in 2011 on "the most advanced OS in the world?" However, we're on this side of things, and they're on the other.

     

    So we'll wait and see.

     

    FWIW, I have no "proof" of anything, except that it's the way I want it to work. Seems like that ought to be a good enough reason in a rational world.

  • 80. Re: How do I tell Lion to disable the LCD screen even when the lid is open?
    jbarresi19 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I understand that its gonna be hard to get apple to change anything. But if they see they can make some loyal customers happy by just adding this option i cant not figure out why they would not do this. Its not like it will affect anyone who is not looking for this capability, so why not make the change? Just really bothers me. What do they lose but making some customers happy.

     

    PS. If anyone wants to hear a funny story....before I found this info online about it not working with lion I called the 1-800 number to talk to apple to find out why it was not working. The first rep told me the old ways of doing it and when i got home it didnt work again so i called back. This time the rep said I needd to get apple care to get help because my macbook was bought 100 days ago. So i asked for a manager and I was on the phone for an hour because the manager would not help me. I told him i didnt want troubleshooting I just wanted to know why what a previous rep told me was not working. He REFUSED to say anything without me purchasing apple care. So I guess he wanted me to buy the apple care so he could tell me that you cant do open clamshell on lion. What a jerkoff. It really makes me rethink my loyality to apple. They need my 50 bucks for apple care when I just read a report that said apple had more available cash than the US government. What a joke.

  • 81. Re: How do I tell Lion to disable the LCD screen even when the lid is open?
    luiz antonio Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I'm having the same issue and I simply cannot accept using a third party program to manage this simple feature.

    I've already sent a feedback to Apple as Jonathan UK asked us to do.

    I agree that we are worried about many advantages of having the lid opened while using an external monitor:

    1. Wanting better air flow.
    2. Wanting to be able to use the keyboard.
    3. Addressing inadequacies of wifi when the lid is closed.

     

    But one thing I would point as critical, is the possibility to use my webcam and microphone while the lid is opened!

    Have you tried to make a voice call with the lid closed? Nobody will hear you!

     

    Feel free to comment my thread: https://discussions.apple.com/message/15793327#15793327

     

    We really need to gather more opinions and feedbacks to force Apple to restore back the previous clamshell behavior.

  • 82. Re: How do I tell Lion to disable the LCD screen even when the lid is open?
    NineTigers Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I agree with you guys. This should have been simple common sense for apple designers. How can they leave this out? My thirteen inch air has had serious sleep problems since November. Instead of getting better they got worse. When I first got it I put it in my bag and later pulled out. It was burning hot Bc it had never turned off. The last couple of months it will sometime never go to sleep and be completely dead. Instead of fixing this problem they come out with a new air and Lion. Whats the point if the products dont work right to begin with. They are revising and updating too fast and not trouble shooting problems enough.

     

    How can they want us to run it closed. Its beyond illogical considering the keyboard is the main vent. Do they not know this? And they have the nerve to charge premium prices? Ugh!!!!!

  • 83. Re: How do I tell Lion to disable the LCD screen even when the lid is open?
    eww Level 9 Level 9 (52,975 points)

    How can they want us to run it closed. Its beyond illogical considering the keyboard is the main vent. Do they not know this?

     

    They don't know that because it's absolutely false. The keyboard is not the "main vent" — it's not a vent at all. The only vents through which air enters and leaves the interior of the machine are hidden behind the display hinge. A small amount of heat is radiated by the keyboard, but that isn't ventilation, it's radiation. A great deal more heat is radiated by the aluminum case, which does so much more efficiently than the keyboard. Exposing more of the aluminum to the air by opening the lid definitely assists cooling, but not because the keyboard is a vent. It would be a good idea to make sure of your facts before adding to the already absurd level of emotional hysteria here.

     

    Apple hasn't deliberately taken anything away. It has accidentally taken away a capability that was only accidentally provided in the first place. It has expressed willingness to listen to user requests for the feature to be reintroduced in a future update of Lion, but a better suggestion for all of us to propose to Apple is the one that has gradually emerged from this thread: Provide a simple on/off switch for the built-in display that has nothing to do with the instructions for clamshell mode or the formerly useful workaround of reopening the display after putting it into Clamshell mode.

     

    None of us knows how difficult it would be for Apple to implement such a switch. All we can do is ask that it be done, and hope for the best.

  • 84. Re: How do I tell Lion to disable the LCD screen even when the lid is open?
    sherby_paladin Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    "None of us knows how difficult it would be for Apple to implement such a switch." Well, what I know is that Mac OS X uses a Unix core, Darwin, and that most Linux flavors allow you to choose which display you want to use. Furthermore, how can Microsoft engineers manage to implement this feature in Windows, since XP (if not before, I don't remember), if it's that difficult? Are they better than those at Apple? I don't believe so.

     

    Also, when you affirm that this debate has become "emotional", well, of course it rightfully has. When you shell out 2K for a computer (the price of my MBP in 2008), you expect it to behave as well, if not better as a Windows-based PC. I do, however, agree that all we want here, is for Apple to implement a simple ON/OFF switch for each display we want to use. 

     

    People in this forum have the right to be emotional about this and it's in no way "absurd" or "hysterical". Please respect the variety of opinions expressed in this forum.

  • 85. Re: How do I tell Lion to disable the LCD screen even when the lid is open?
    jbarresi19 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    sherby_paladin wrote:

     

    "None of us knows how difficult it would be for Apple to implement such a switch." Well, what I know is that Mac OS X uses a Unix core, Darwin, and that most Linux flavors allow you to choose which display you want to use. Furthermore, how can Microsoft engineers manage to implement this feature in Windows, since XP (if not before, I don't remember), if it's that difficult? Are they better than those at Apple? I don't believe so.

     

    Also, when you affirm that this debate has become "emotional", well, of course it rightfully has. When you shell out 2K for a computer (the price of my MBP in 2008), you expect it to behave as well, if not better as a Windows-based PC. I do, however, agree that all we want here, is for Apple to implement a simple ON/OFF switch for each display we want to use. 

     

    People in this forum have the right to be emotional about this and it's in no way "absurd" or "hysterical". Please respect the variety of opinions expressed in this forum.

     

    Well said. Everyone has the right to react as they please. When you spend tons of money on a particular company you expect them to listen to your needs.You expect the product to work as you want it to work and as it has in the past, within reason.

  • 86. Re: How do I tell Lion to disable the LCD screen even when the lid is open?
    tjk Level 7 Level 7 (24,150 points)

    jbarresi19 wrote:

     

    You expect the product to work . . . as it has in the past

     

    Actually, I don't want it to work the way it did in the past in what appears to have been an "accident."

     

    I want it to be intentionally set up with one teeny-tiny little software switch so that I can use an external display and turn off the built in display while still leaving the display open.

     

    I really don't think that's too much to ask, and I can't begin to imagine why they wouldn't implement this.

  • 87. Re: How do I tell Lion to disable the LCD screen even when the lid is open?
    jbarresi19 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    tjk wrote:

     

    jbarresi19 wrote:

     

    You expect the product to work . . . as it has in the past

     

    Actually, I don't want it to work the way it did in the past in what appears to have been an "accident."

     

    I want it to be intentionally set up with one teeny-tiny little software switch so that I can use an external display and turn off the built in display while still leaving the display open.

     

    I really don't think that's too much to ask, and I can't begin to imagine why they wouldn't implement this.

    I agree, but I think you get my point....I just wanna use my god **** laptop with the screen open and off.... and it really upsets me that i have to put a magnet on a 1500 computer to get it to do what i want....like this is 1990 or something

  • 88. Re: How do I tell Lion to disable the LCD screen even when the lid is open?
    Linda Custer Level 2 Level 2 (315 points)

    I do not agree.

     

    First, I don't know where that post came from earlier claiming to be from Apple that says the Leopard and Snow Leopard behavior was accidential. In my view, that is not correct. Apple had prior knowledge base articles that CLEARLY detailed every step of attaching an external display, closing the Mac so it would sleep, and then re-waking the Mac with a Bluetooth or USB peripheral.

     

    How could this have been accidental when for at least the entire life of Leopard and Snow Leopard this was taught by Apple articles?

     

    That is my main problem with what is claimed in your post. This was not an accidental feature. It was how it was designed to work. It would not have survived and been documented for so long as an accident.

     

    Second, through the capabilities already provided in the Displays preference pane it would be very easy for Apple to engineer an on-off switch. They already have all the code written to detect displays; it has worked for years. They also have the code written to disable a display through the sleep mechanism. All they have to do is change when that code is activated. I think it is splitting hairs to say we don't know how easy it is. Everything is easy or hard depending on our perspective. It is a matter of what is a priority. But enabling this when the display detection and disabling code is already there is easier than writng that code from scratch.

     

    Third, you mention that the keyboard doesn't vent significantly. Why be so petty when you admit that the increased surface area of aluminum that is exposed to ambient when the case is open is increased? Who cares whether the cooling comes from aluminum or through the keyboard -- either way keeping the case closed is not a heat help. No one has ever argued that keeping the case closed is better. It is at least incrementally worse. So why not allow for a solution, obviously already in use by many given the comments here, that allows for at least marginally better heat flow. (My experience, like the proof offered earlier, is that the difference is much more than marginal.)

     

    A few additional comments:

     

    I think this choice was made more for simplicity than anything else. I agree that Apple thinks a closed case still puts the computer into operating fully within specs, even if it is hotter. (Whether that is true is up for debate, but I do believe they have extensively tested this.) I believe they had service calls and genius bar visits (which they do carefully log) that didn't understand why the internal display didn't light up when the case was opened. People didn't know to go into the monitors preference panel and do a "detect displays" if they really did want the monitor on.

     

    Apple sees: People find it easier to learn that case open = monitor on; case closed = monitor off. (And external display works whenever connected.) Since the computer still runs within engineering specs with this simpler paradigm, it's more simplicity and they design to that.

     

    We users who are a bit more sophisticated and desire a cooler computer (or better WiFi -- same arguments) are probably in the minority and Apple figured it might be able to take the complaints.

     

    My experience tells me that Apple WILL listen. It may take a while, because they are never knee-jerk reactionary. I have had many issues with Apple products over the years and the ones that weren't just simply broken hardware were all eventually fixed within a few months with software updates. Apple unofficially monitors this board and officially monitors the feedback channels and comments at genius bars and by phone. They will learn that they have an engaged user base who sees value in having this changed, and they will likely take the time to think about the best solution. (It surely won't involve a magnet -- grin.) It may be the on-off switch we've been discussing or it may be something more elegant. I can almost completely assure you it will not be regression to the Leopard and Snow Leopard behavior for the simplicity argument I made earlier.

     

    In the meantime, I will use the magnet. It's far from ideal, and I don't and won't like it, but it is working for me with the least hassle. For now.

  • 89. Re: How do I tell Lion to disable the LCD screen even when the lid is open?
    Linda Custer Level 2 Level 2 (315 points)

    See my other recent reply of a few minutes ago.

     

    This was NOT an accident. I don't know how that rumor got started. Apple, going back for years, has clearly documented every step of the previous behavior. Every single step. In an Apple-official knowledgebase article on the Apple-official website. For Leopard and Snow Leopard. In the past operating systems, the close-to-sleep then wake-with-bluetooth-or-USB then open lid actions were clearly spelled out every step of the way.

     

    The documentation Apple provided in the past is proof-positive that the behavior was never an accident.

     

    One Apple engineer may have said it was accidental, but that doesn't mean that particular engineer knew the facts. The Apple engineer WAS correct that the way Lion now works IS "as designed" and "intentional" *FOR LION*. And that is what the majority of us on this discussion thread -- including me -- feel was a mistake and that we want changed.

     

    As I stated, I think the change in Lion was intentional because it made the system simpler (not necessarily better) while still meeting their internal design requirements. I think that Apple will reconsider.

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