8 Replies Latest reply: Aug 1, 2011 9:32 AM by hansfromhoorn
cjd1234 Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

I've shot and edited at least 75 multicam projects with almost no problems. They've all been shot using tape cameras- Panasonic DVX100Bs and later Canon HV40. I've shot in DV or HDV. FCP has beem virtually perfect. I've rarely had problems and I usually use 5-7 cameras. Even when somebody messes up and stops srecording for a couple of seconds it's not that difficult to re-sync one of the shots. Clients have been very happy.

 

Now I want to purchase a few tapeless cameras, but I'm reading about gaps created in the recordings if you shoot too long. This, of course, would be a big problem because of the syncing problem it would create on multiple cameras. And it's not uncommon for me to shoot 60-plus minutes non-stop.

 

Has anybody faced this issue after capturing into FCP? What tapeless cameras have you used successfully for multicam work? i.e. no gaps.

 

Thanks.

 

Message was edited by: cjd1234


Mac Pro4,1, MacBook Pro5,2/iMac7,1, Mac OS X (10.5.6)
  • 1. Re: Multicam editing/Tapeless cameras creating gaps
    Shane Ross Level 8 Level 8 (41,895 points)

    >but I'm reading about gaps created in the recordings if you shoot too long.

     

    What gaps?  Shooting too long causes gaps? Where did you read that?  Makes no sense.

     

    >Has anybody faced this issue after capturing into FCP?

     

    No.

     

    >What tapeless cameras have you used successfully for multicam work?

     

    DVCPRO HD P2, AVCIntra P2, XDCAM EX, AVCHD (Sony NX5).  Zero gaps.  Shooting between 5 min and 3 hours.

  • 2. Re: Multicam editing/Tapeless cameras creating gaps
    cjd1234 Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    Thank you for the reply.

     

    This is terrible but I can't find where I read about these issues earlier today. Sorry.

     

    It had to do with SD cards. It said that after you start using them and deleting files, gaps are created which can affect continuous recording/capturing. I should have bookmarked the reference of posted the link.

     

    I'll try to find the info and post it later.

  • 3. Re: Multicam editing/Tapeless cameras creating gaps
    cjd1234 Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    OK, so I finally found where I read about long clips broken up. This is from the Canon site in reference to the XA10. (You have to scroll all the way to the bottom)

    NOTE: Longer continuous recordings may be broken up into multiple files of up to 2GB each. This is normal and is necessary for compatibility with the built-in memory and/or memory card file system. Most AVCHD editing software is capable of rejoining these files into one large video file on the computer.

     

    http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/camcorders/professional_camcorde rs/xa10#ServiceAndSupport

     

    Is this only a PC issue? Does this also happen with FCP 7 and or FCP X? And how do you "rejoin" these clips in FCP? (I didn't mean to hit the "correct answer" button.)

  • 4. Re: Multicam editing/Tapeless cameras creating gaps
    Eric Pensenstadler Level 3 Level 3 (675 points)

    I use Sony NX5U's and often record 60+ minutes.  When I first started using these cameras I was shooting in SD.  It automatically created new files every approx 30 minutes (approx 2 gigs I think).  At the end of every clip I would have an audio dropout of between 2 and 6 frames.  The manufacturer says to use the provided software to rejoin the clips without the audio dropout, but that is only for PC.  Some people say to use a program such as Mpeg Streamclip to join the clips but I haven't tried it.

     

    Now, with that said, that was SD.  These cameras also create a new clip every 12 minutes (approx 2 gigs) when shooting HD, however, FCP7 works with the HD files MUCH better than with the SD files.  When I L&T into FCP and convert to Apple ProRes 422 the clips are automatically rejoined into one long clip.  I'm not 100% certain but think that was thanks to an update made for FCP not too long ago. 

     

    Try searching the CreativeCow forums for NX5U dropout or something of the sort. 

     

    Hope that helps.

    Eric

  • 5. Re: Multicam editing/Tapeless cameras creating gaps
    cjd1234 Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    Here's another multicam issue from Canon regarding the use of SDXC cards:

     

    "After repeatedly recording, deleting and editing scenes (fragmented memory), it will take longer to write data on

    the memory and recording may stop. Save your recordings and initialize the memory."

     

    http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/camcorders/consumer_camcorders/v ixia_hf_m31#ServiceAndSupport

     

    So after researching for a long time and two visits to B&H, I have concluded the only consumer camera that can- on paper- reliably shoot for more than one hour without any breaks in the recording are Panasonic cameras such as the HDC-HS900. However, you cannont use 1080/60p- the highest quality setting at 28Mbps. You must shoot  in HA mode at 17Mbps.

     

    BTW, my criterion also included a camera with headphone and mic input capability.

     

    I hope this discussion has been useful to those of you who shoot long events. Please post your experience with tapeless cameras and long shoots.

  • 6. Re: Multicam editing/Tapeless cameras creating gaps
    hansfromhoorn Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Tapeless camcorders use SD or Compact Flash cards. These cards are most times formatted in FAT 32.

    The movie container is almost all times AVI. AVI has an 4GB limit. The file can't be larger than 4GB.

    I use on my Sony Z-1 a Compact Flash memory recording unit. Sony supplies excellent software for FCP7 to 'Log and transfer' the data. During the 'transfer' the Sony software sews all 4GB parts together without losing a frame and also in QuickTime format!

    For instance, with an 32GB Compact Flash card I can record 146 minutes in HDV and after 'Log and transfer' it is one QuickTime movie.

    So if you buy an digital tapeless camcorder look out and ask for such software for your camera model and your Mac!

  • 7. Re: Multicam editing/Tapeless cameras creating gaps
    Eric Pensenstadler Level 3 Level 3 (675 points)

    hansfromhoorn,

     

    What software are you using from Sony with FCP7?  I'm using the NX5Us (see my post a few up) and the software I thought was only for PC. 

     

    Do you L&T directly from the camera, or do you dump the card onto a HD and then L&T from there?  The latter is my method and FCP joins the 12 minute clips together. It's great now!

     

    I do have a question, though, that ironically I was going to post today.  So I'll ask it here and then also start a new thread:  In FCP7 it seems that I can L&T 60 minutes and even a bit longer with no problem.  But every time I have footage that is 1.5 hours FCP crashes at the very end of the transfer.  The file is created, I can see the 100+ gig file in the capture scratch folder, but it's not readable.  I have to capture the file in 2 segments, which really stinks when syncing 2 or 3 or more cameras.  Any idea what's going on here?

     

    Thank you!

    Eric

  • 8. Re: Multicam editing/Tapeless cameras creating gaps
    hansfromhoorn Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    SONY RECORDING UNIT/FINAL CUT PRO® PLUG-IN SOFTWARE  This software transfers movie files from a HVR-DR60 or CompactFlash card to a folder on the hard disk drive (HDD) of your Mac. During this process, it will also merge together any footage that has been divided into two or more .M2T files by the FAT32 specification of the HVR-DR60 and CompactFlash cards. The software also changes file names automatically during transfer to avoid duplication of the same name. M2T and DVCAM/DV files stored on the HVR-DR60 and the CF card of the Memory Recording Unit can be imported correctly to your Final Cut Pro 7 project by installing the Sony Recording Unit Plug-in software. This software allows the video and audio stored on these devices to be transferred into Final Cut Pro using the Log and Transfer feature. Please ensure that your version of Final Cut Pro is upgraded to 7.0 or higher before installing this plug-in software.   1. The CompactFlash Memory Recording Unit has a FireWire connection. The card stays in the Recording Unit. I just connect the Recording Unit to a FireWire800 external drive during Log & Transfer. 2. The shows I record are at most time 2hours or 2 1/2 hours long but always with a pause in the middle. My Sony Z-1 is programmed to recognize the start/stop commands. In my case the footage is never longer than 5 quarters of an hour (2 times!). So I have never ever reached your 1,5 hour limit.