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  • 30. Re: Save As, Gone?
    mdh98368 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    It's not because several users rant against Duplicate that they are right.

    Windows is the most widely spread operating system and it doesn't prove that it's the best operating system.

    VHS was the most widely spread videotape recorder and wasn't the best one.

     

    On my side, I have no problem with the new scheme and I don't wish that Apple drops it.

     

    ***

     

    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Your argument about "just because lots of people believe something doesn't mean their right" is a red herring argument in this case. It can be equally true that "just because lots of people, they are in fact right."

     

    Furthermore, the Duplicate function can stay the way it is. If it adds useful functionality, it's fine. Apparently, for many of us, however, Save As was a key feature that for no apparent reason has been removed. Not sure why this is a difficult point to grasp and why it keeps getting relegislated in this thread.

     

    Save As, Duplicate, Export, Save Version--all can live in harmony and people can use whichever one best fits their needs. For those of us for whom Save As was an integral part of our daily workflows, it is a loss.

     

    Finally, your characterization of those of us who feel this way as "ranting" is unnecessarily offensive and polemical.

  • 31. Re: Save As, Gone?
    Level 8 Level 8 (41,760 points)

    If you wish to keep a copy of the document in the state were it was when you opened it I already described two schemes

     

    (1) define it as a template so you will get a copy which will save nothing in the original

     

    (2) duplicate the doc just after opening it and close the original.

    I already posted a script doing that for Pages and for Numbers.

     

    I feel that it would not be too difficult to extend it to other applications.

     

    Replacing Save As… by Duplicate is not a workaround but a design choice.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) jeudi 18 août 2011 16:46:11

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

    My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>


    Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

     

    To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

  • 32. Re: Save As, Gone?
    Level 8 Level 8 (41,760 points)

    I used deliberately the word "rant" because

    we got the same reactions when Apple dropped MacWrite

    we got the same reactions when Apple dropped Hypercard

    we got the same reactions when Apple dropped SCSI HD

    we got the same reactions when Apple dropped Mac OS 9

    we got the same reactions when Apple dropped floppy disks

    we got the same reactions when Apple dropped the ADB keyboard and introduced USB

    we got the same reactions about the removal of optical unit in MacBook Air

    we are getting the same reactions about the removal of optical unit in Mac Mini

     

    Every change which Apple introduced was accompannied by the ranters choir

    but happily the changes remain and the ranters now feel that what they critisized behave well and fit their needs.

     

    Every important changes in the mankind story were made by minorities, not by majorities.

     

    Just an exemple, when France abolished capital execution, which was a good decision, it was voted in the parliament. Asking citizen to vote in a referendum wouldn't have abolished it.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) jeudi 18 août 2011 16:54:43

     

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

    My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>


    Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

     

    To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

  • 33. Re: Save As, Gone?
    Jardar Abrahamsen Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    Yes Yvan, I have seen your advice, and it's good to know that there are several workarounds, not just one. And although I prefer to call "Duplicate" a workaround, do allow me to thank you for your good contributions both in this thread and in general for many years.

  • 34. Re: Save As, Gone?
    Haydnsikh Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    As one of those who dearly misses "Save As," I was wondering if there is a way to revert back to the previous version of Pages (while still maintaining Lion, in general).

  • 35. Re: Save As, Gone?
    Level 8 Level 8 (41,760 points)

    Re install iWork 9.0.5.

     

    (1) if you got iWork thru mac App Store you may only retrieve the old version if you backuped it with Time Machine.

    (2) if you bought the package iWork, you must uninstall completely the version 9.1 (uninstaller available on my iDisk)

     

    For_iWork:iWork '09:uninstall iWork '09.zip

     

    re install from your original copy, apply the updater 9.0.5 which is no longer available in Apple Web Pages but which may be downloaded from my iDisk

    For_iWork:iWork '09:iWork9Update5.dmg.zip

     

    (3) But it's fighting uselessly. The change wil continue, with you or without you. The next major update of iWork will be optimized for Lion and will take benefit of every new features including, of course, AutoSave and Versions.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) jeudi 18 août 2011 17:34:55

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

    My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>


    Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

     

    To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

  • 36. Re: Save As, Gone?
    Level 8 Level 8 (41,760 points)

    I never saw a workaround clearly described in the System's Help.

     

    2011_07_31_19.08.16.png

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) jeudi 18 août 2011 17:44:01

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

    My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>


    Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

     

    To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

  • 37. Re: Save As, Gone?
    Jardar Abrahamsen Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    KOENIG Yvan wrote:

     

    re install from your original copy, apply the updater 9.0.5 which is no longer available in Apple Web Pages but which may be downloaded from my iDisk

    For_iWork:iWork '09:iWork9Update5.dmg.zip

     

    http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1436 ?

     

    (3) But it's fighting uselessly. The change wil continue, with you or without you.

     

    For some it may still be a good way to delay the inevitable, e.g. for finishing work using the old workflow before moving to another application. Also, given the reports about problems with Keynote, this could be a way to get work done while we wait for Apple. Thanks for your assistance.

  • 38. Re: Save As, Gone?
    Level 8 Level 8 (41,760 points)

    Jardar Abrahamsen wrote:

     

    KOENIG Yvan wrote:

     

    re install from your original copy, apply the updater 9.0.5 which is no longer available in Apple Web Pages but which may be downloaded from my iDisk

    For_iWork:iWork '09:iWork9Update5.dmg.zip

     

    http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1436 ?

    Thanks

     

    Glad to learn that they re introduced it.

    When I saw that it was gone, I file a message about that and uploaded the updater on my iDisk.

    I'm not checking everyday if the updater is back.

    It's really back and it's a good news. I will remove it from my iDisk.

     

    If you uninstall iWork without my script, don't forget to remove the folder :

    Macintosh HD:Library:Application Support:iWork '09:Frameworks:

    The set of files of version 9.1 aren't compatible with 9.0.5 and I'm afraid that seeing a version more recent than its own one the installer doesn't replace it.

     

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) jeudi 18 août 2011 18:19:00

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

    My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>


    Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

     

    To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

  • 39. Re: Save As, Gone?
    DChord568 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    KOENIG Yvan wrote:

     

    I used deliberately the word "rant" because

    we got the same reactions when Apple dropped MacWrite

    we got the same reactions when Apple dropped Hypercard

    we got the same reactions when Apple dropped SCSI HD

    we got the same reactions when Apple dropped Mac OS 9

    we got the same reactions when Apple dropped floppy disks

    we got the same reactions when Apple dropped the ADB keyboard and introduced USB

    we got the same reactions about the removal of optical unit in MacBook Air

    we are getting the same reactions about the removal of optical unit in Mac Mini

     

    Every change which Apple introduced was accompannied by the ranters choir

    but happily the changes remain and the ranters now feel that what they critisized behave well and fit their needs.

     

    In every case you cite (with the possible exception of HyperCard), there was an immediate fix on the horizon that provided the *same* functionality and did not involve a *loss* of functionality. If you went to the new paradigm (e.g., OS9>OS10; floppies>CDs>thumb drives; ADB>USB), you were able to do exactly what you had been able to do previously…you just had to invest in new hardware/software.

     

    This is not the case with the eliminating of Save As in favor of Versioning and Auto-Save. Apple has taken a system that has worked exactly the same way for 25+ years — a system that worked perfectly well for most folks' needs — and thrown it right out the window.

     

    It's very clear from the many comments and examples here and elsewhere that this change will needlessly complicate and interrupt the workflow of many who have never had a problem in need of solving. It's nice that it may work better for some, but I'm far from convinced that the majority of Mac users need or want Versioning for their needs.

     

    I'm hoping that Apple hears our many cries and makes Auto-Save/Versioning a choice, while reinstituting Save As for the many of us who feel Apple has fixed something that wasn't broken.

  • 40. Re: Save As, Gone?
    Level 8 Level 8 (41,760 points)

    Given the numbers of users which were complaining about the document upon which they worked two or three hours which was gone because their machine quitted for an unknown reason when the work was not saved, I'm not sure that the system was perfect as you wrote.

     

    It was just matching your old habits.

     

    You will have to learn new habits and in january 2012 you will be surprised to see that you will be at ease with the new paradigm.

    It's time to understand that in some months, iOS and OSX will behave the same, for the best and for the worst.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) jeudi 18 août 2011 23:23:07

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

    My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>


    Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

     

    To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

  • 41. Re: Save As, Gone?
    DChord568 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    KOENIG Yvan wrote:

     

    Given the numbers of users which were complaining about the document upon which they worked two or three hours which was gone because their machine quitted for an unknown reason when the work was not saved, I'm not sure that the system was perfect as you wrote.

     

    It was just matching your old habits.

     

    No, it was matching EVERYONE'S old habits, because this was the way it worked for 25+ years for anyone who had a Mac.

     

    Furthermore, a user who works on a document for two or three hours without saving it gets ZERO sympathy from me when he or she loses it. For the sake of a few idiots who flout one of the most basic rules of computing, the rest of us should suffer?

     

    In addition, if you fall into that idiot category, there have been shareware and freeware products for a long time now that save your documents automatically at specified intervals. There's one now made specifically for Pages, ForeverSave Lite.

     

    I will repeat: AutoSave and Versioning should be an *option*, not the only way of doing things. I made the point in my last post, which you conveniently ignored, that this new way will at best complicate, or at worst seriously disrupt, the workflow of a great many. Give us a choice.

  • 42. Re: Save As, Gone?
    Level 8 Level 8 (41,760 points)

    I'm not one of those which fail to save their work.

    I repeat very often in the forums that the basic rule is backup, backup and backup but choices aren't made upon the behavior of experienced users, they are made upon representative users and we must understand that most of them aren't taking care of the basic rule.

    As the goal is to grab new customers among beings which never use a computer, the choice made by Apple make sense.

     

    I didn't wait your advice about backup and iWork. I delivered a FREE autosave script which do what the ForeverSave pro achieve.

    It keep chronological backups which are highly better for safety than the simple automated save applied by ForeverSave Lite.

     

    I didn't ignored your late post, I just disagree with it. I explained several times my advice about that but I don't wish to behave as a parrot.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) vendredi 19 août 2011 08:27:21

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

    My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>


    Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

     

    To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

  • 43. Re: Save As, Gone?
    media_lush Level 1 Level 1 (35 points)

    just adding that I hate the new duplicate feature and want "save as" brought back..... my normal work flow now involves numerous more steps than it did before.... how can this be regarded as an improvement.

     

    There's even a Hitler rant video about the 'save as' missing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZksFkF4S4qI

  • 44. Re: Save As, Gone?
    Dale Gillard Level 5 Level 5 (4,365 points)
    Wouldn't it take some extra time to search for that earlier version (from before the wild restructuring) if Autosave has created, say, 20 versions in the meantime?

     

    The Auto Save feature does not create versions. The Versions feature is separate and does not work as frequently as Auto Save.