1 2 3 4 Previous Next 103 Replies Latest reply: Nov 20, 2013 5:24 AM by barnettgs Go to original post
  • 15. Re: Lion - no more "save as" in text edit
    AppleMan1958 Level 7 Level 7 (27,340 points)

    This is smart design in my opinion.

     

    If you did a simple SAVE AS, you would save all the incremental edits and past versions. It could be quite embarassing for a recipient of a note to see all the words you may have edited out.

     

    By changing to Duplicate, you get to zero out all the revisions and versions and start fresh.

  • 16. Re: Lion - no more "save as" in text edit
    baltwo Level 9 Level 9 (60,125 points)

    Only in your opinion. In the forty or so years I've been using computers, I've never experienced your supposed embarassment. As with this Save As deletion, versioning is another mindless design decision that should have an OFF switch.

  • 17. Re: Lion - no more "save as" in text edit
    synthview Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Excepted that your it is only one of the possible uses.

    Save as can be used from a file that is the template of something, or if you have to provide variants of something.

    In any case, "duplicate" is the same thing than Save As, just with 2 more steps.

    I think Apple simply wanted to push the new versioning system.

    the only problem of it is that the UI is a  very un-ergonomic toy. you can compare 2 documents in their "spacy" preview if you have some lines of text, but it's quite harder for complex documents or just long texts.

    It's clear Apple tries to push Mac to mass market, but this time they didn't tested enough with professional users.

    Too much marketing kills quality.

    We have to wait for the next rising star and drop AppleToys inc.

  • 18. Re: Lion - no more "save as" in text edit
    Red Robin Level 3 Level 3 (560 points)

    ^ Interesting this Mass Market vs Professional approach. I had a chat with an Apple techie yesterday which was about iPhoto and Aperture: Apple definitely differentiate quite consciously and I was politely being told that they hadn't designed the two apps to work together in the way I wanted to harness them. In other words, the user is expected to use one or the other according to being consumer or pro, but not necessarily both.

     

    I don't use GarageBand anymore since buying Logic but why shouldn't I? I can see instances when it might be simpler and easier to use GB and then transfer the song to Logic later.

     

    So you understand that I'm not going off topic, my point relates to the Mass Market vs Professional (what about the Semi-professional?) and hence how the UI relates, as the Save As vs Duplicate debate.

  • 19. Re: Lion - no more "save as" in text edit
    manzana grande Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Well I for one, in protest of the "Save As" removal, have in turn removed the Lion version of TextEdit. I'm using TextWrangler instead. I may switch to something else but will not use TextEdit until they return to industry standards and implement the "Save As" function.

  • 20. Re: Lion - no more "save as" in text edit
    Red Robin Level 3 Level 3 (560 points)

    This subject is fast becoming a storm in a teacup.

     

    "Save As" is now being written "Duplicate".... So what! Quite a few Apps in Snow Leopard already use the new term. When you "Save As" you either have the word "copy" or need to revise the whole title. Some folks don't like change, do they.

  • 21. Re: Lion - no more "save as" in text edit
    synthview Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Red Robin, you don't get the point: it's not about the label, but about the flow.

    1. duplicate has no shortcut

    2. it creates a new file

    3. you have, than, to click save to gve it a name

     

    3 actions again 1. To obtain what? That people use the crappy autosave Lion system?

    It's basic windows-like martketing here.

     

    Expecially in Pro usage (not writing a simple text) you may want to test something (for instance code) but do not save it. The fact Lion autosaves changes is really annoying.

    As I already said, it can be cool for a non  professional user. For all the others is a pain.  

  • 22. Re: Lion - no more "save as" in text edit
    Red Robin Level 3 Level 3 (560 points)

    synthview,

     

    I agree about autosaving being a nuisance unless the user can make a choice.

     

    Flow is something folks have to adapt to and it's something you get used to.... As always.

  • 23. Re: Lion - no more "save as" in text edit
    synthview Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    but Apple always claimed to make the best flow to the user. Here is not the case.

    I've already experienced some changes on my file while working were saved automatically, and it was bad for me because I didn't want to keep these changes.

    I’m working in ergonomy too, and I’m not against changes. but I find this time the changes are more marketing driven then ergonomy driven. And I feel  I’m not the only one to be unsatisfied.

    And I hope that at Apple they will hear our voice, will fire someone   and improve this beta version of an OS

  • 24. Re: Lion - no more "save as" in text edit
    Red Robin Level 3 Level 3 (560 points)

    ^ Perhaps if enough people send Apple feedback forms they may take notice.

     

    I would suggest that giving the user the option whether to Autosave or not would be the best move, and for that option to be applicable individually to different Apple Apps rather than global.

     

     

  • 25. Re: Lion - no more "save as" in text edit
    synthview Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I agree!

    I've tried to write them some days ago using thir bug tracker, but it was bugged and couldn't log in! I'm serious!

  • 26. Re: Lion - no more "save as" in text edit
    baltwo Level 9 Level 9 (60,125 points)

    Red Robin wrote:

     

    Quite a few Apps in Snow Leopard already use the new term.

    Name some. I just checked TextEdit, Preview, Pages, Numbers, and Keynote and none have Duplicate, only Save As. It's not change itself, but mindless change that results in additional steps and contradicts learned experience.

     

    As I noted earlier, sending BRs/ERs is more effective than feedback.

  • 27. Re: Lion - no more "save as" in text edit
    Red Robin Level 3 Level 3 (560 points)

    baltwo wrote:

     

    Red Robin wrote:

     

    Quite a few Apps in Snow Leopard already use the new term.

    Name some. I just checked TextEdit, Preview, Pages, Numbers, and Keynote and none have Duplicate, only Save As. It's not change itself, but mindless change that results in additional steps and contradicts learned experience.

     

    As I noted earlier, sending BRs/ERs is more effective than feedback.

     

    ....I should have written "Quite a few Apps within..."

     

    "Duplicate" is often listed as an option via Edit and Contextual Menus. I inhabit mostly Logic Studio and Adobe's Creative Suite. It's a term we should be used to by now.

     

    I assume you mean Bug Report when you write "BR". This feature which so many find unpopular is hardly a Bug. A Bug is an issue which was not designed. "Duplicate" is as consciously designed whether folks like it or not.

     

    All Apple have to do is give users the option to choose or not. Have "Autosave" selectable/deselectable in the Prefs.

  • 28. Re: Lion - no more "save as" in text edit
    baltwo Level 9 Level 9 (60,125 points)

    If you read my BR/ER post, you'd know that you can use the same vehicle for enhancement requests. If you don't consider this a bug, I do since it's a loss of prrevious functionality, then file an ER. As for choices, you're correct. That also applies to the mindless resume, versioning, and autotermination. All of those are missing the OFF button.

  • 29. Re: Lion - no more "save as" in text edit
    AppleMan1958 Level 7 Level 7 (27,340 points)

    The current version of Pages (4.1) does not have Save As, it has Duplicate and Versions.

     

    iMovie 8, 9, and 11 all have Duplicate but no save as.

     

    Final Cut Pro X has Duplicate but no Save As.

     

    By the way, here is a great article by John Siracusa of Ars Technica about the new document management paradigm.

    It is part of his review of Lion.

1 2 3 4 Previous Next