1 56 57 58 59 60 Previous Next 2,670 Replies Latest reply: Apr 23, 2014 2:58 PM by ElJefeGrande Go to original post
  • 855. Re: Lion WiFi Connection Problem
    ikkyusan Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    from my point of view, I have already tried unsuccesfully all the proposed solutions.

    The only thing I found working, if you are on your home network, rather than going to modify things and settings that could affect the network and therefore other devices that are working fine, is to do a continuous ping from lion to your router, using your terminal window, it's fast, easy to do, and it keeps the wi-fi connection alive.

     

    The downside is that you have to do everytime you start your Mac, but it's just taking two or three seconds to do.

     

    Then, if it's not working, you can start modify settings.

  • 856. Re: Lion WiFi Connection Problem
    lupunus Level 3 Level 3 (995 points)

    ikkyusan wrote:

     

    to do a continuous ping from lion to your router, using your terminal window, it's fast, easy to do, and it keeps the wi-fi connection alive.

    Not a really good idea, 'cause this will not solve the problem, it just cure on symptoms.

     

    In fact, in a WiFi net a constantly beacon (icmp) is send (by default) 10 times a second.

     

    If wifi participants disconnect (disassociate) there is a specific reason for that in the net. Mostly this will be "bad packets" e.g. DUP ACK, and you better should eliminate the reason for that instead of sending even more unneeded packets into your network.

     

    You better perform a stringent classic troubleshoot, find the reason for the packets, and solve the problem.

    OK, this is work, take time and brain strain, but it's worth the effort.

     

    On this, always remember Sherlock Holmes: "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth".

     

     

     

    Cheers - Lupunus

     

     

     

    “People in this world look at things mistakenly, and think that what they do not understand must be the void. This is not the true void. It is bewilderment...” (Miamoto Musashi)

  • 857. Re: Lion WiFi Connection Problem
    ikkyusan Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    lupunus wrote:

    In fact, in a WiFi net a constantly beacon (icmp) is send (by default) 10 times a second.

     

    If wifi participants disconnect (disassociate) there is a specific reason for that in the net. Mostly this will be "bad packets" e.g. DUP ACK, and you better should eliminate the reason for that instead of sending even more unneeded packets into your network.

    Stating that a ping is just a very small amount of data that happen unnoticed thousands and thousands of time during our browsing, your 'specific reason' has yet to be find, and dozens of experienced people has not yet found it.

    If I was a customer asking you 'why pinging make things works ?' What would you answer ?

    Even if we could discuss about where the problem is (Lion or Wi-fi or both) the situation is that an old software called Snow Leopard is handling the wi-fi very well without changing anything, while Lion cannot.

    I bought my router years ago, I never touched its settings (apart from trying to solve this problem), and Snow Leopard never complained about this settings since unpacked from the box.

    The bad packet has nothing to do do with my case, nor there are intereferences on the net, none of the wi-fi device (Apple or not) I hold has never been disconnected.

    lupunus wrote

     

    You better perform a stringent classic troubleshoot, find the reason for the packets, and solve the problem.

    OK, this is work, take time and brain strain, but it's worth the effort.

    Yes, of course, altough I cannot imagine how can I suggest this to consumer user, a non expert person modifing settings, or worst to change the driver can cause severe problem leading to reinstall. So for the moment, I would at least cure the symptons, rather than waiting that this symptoms become worst and cause death !

    Regarding me, I have already splitted and analyzed every packet and reason, without discovering why.

    lupunus wrote:

    On this, always remember Sherlock Holmes: "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth".

    The truth, just because everything has already been unsuccesfully applied and tested, is that Apple should publish a patch for a problem that Snow Leopard can handle, and Lion cannot.

    lupunus wrote:

     

    “People in this world look at things mistakenly, and think that what they do not understand must be the void. This is not the true void. It is bewilderment...” (Miamoto Musashi)

    This is nice, it just suits particularly to your case of looking mistakenly, you should have noticed by now that your suggestions doesn't solve the problem, but worst are not a cure for the symptoms :-)

  • 858. Re: Lion WiFi Connection Problem
    hazeem Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    i new to mac. having a brain that has been brainwashed with windows way of doing things doesnt help much. i dont understand all of the proposed solution posted on the board. heck, i dont even know what is a terminal window.....

     

    alternatively, was think of connecting a LAN cable to my router and stop using wifi. that is until apple provide an update to resolve this problem (crossed my fingers). i been typing this post 4 times. hope this time around, the wifi did not disconnect while im trying to post it.....

  • 859. Re: Lion WiFi Connection Problem
    hazeem Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    could you show me how to ping? what / where is terminal windows. sorry to be such a nuisance but i'm very frustrated now.....

  • 860. Re: Lion WiFi Connection Problem
    lupunus Level 3 Level 3 (995 points)

    hazeem wrote:

     

    could you show me how to ping? what / where is terminal windows. sorry to be such a nuisance but i'm very frustrated now.....

    Easy as a pie (If one knows the way)

     

    Open from Utilitys the Network Utility - click on the PING tab, enter the destination's IP or address (name) and check "Send an unlimited numer of pings" then click Ping.

  • 861. Re: Lion WiFi Connection Problem
    Stress Test Level 4 Level 4 (1,265 points)

    Open the Terminal.app (Applications > Utilities)

     

    insert

     

    ping <ip-addres-from-router>

     

    hit enter

  • 862. Re: Lion WiFi Connection Problem
    hazeem Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    thanks. solved my current problem. lets hope a permanent solution is made available in the very near future. just out of curiosity, would this unlimited ping affects the internet speed. thanks again for the info.

  • 863. Re: Lion WiFi Connection Problem
    lennydas Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    I had a similar problem with snow leopard after one of the many updates.  I would loose my wi-fi connection and would have to manually connect after every log-on.  Tried many things and waited for Apple to relase another upgrade that might fix it.  I found that because I have two routers, an apple extreem and fios, that my wi-fi kept trying to connect to the extreem which was only atteched to an old photo printer.  I had to go into settings and move my fios router to the top of the list of routers, this solved the problem.  I am posting this as hopefully it may help your problem, one way or another.

  • 864. Re: Lion WiFi Connection Problem
    DaPunk Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I test with 3 wifi router in 3 week. The result is no drop connection with Atheros chipset one router use ralink chipset is drop every time. I think osx is so sensitive with some router. I recommend router use Atheros or Broadcom chipset check you router first.

  • 865. Re: Lion WiFi Connection Problem
    lupunus Level 3 Level 3 (995 points)

    ikkyusan wrote:

     

    Stating that a ping is just a very small amount of data that happen unnoticed thousands and thousands of time during our browsing, your 'specific reason' has yet to be find, and dozens of experienced people has not yet found it.

    ...and also thousands had never a WiFi issue or have found a solution for their problems. They dont show up here, though.

     

    The problematic point is, that every network situation and every computer configuration is unique, even if the reported problem seems similar to others.

     

    It's literally the same problem either patients and doctors have. There is no "Hey, looks similar to the guy we had yesterday. OK, lets cut out the appendix" or "My cousin had similar symptom's once. So sad I have to die too."

    There is a clear "No cure without a diagnose"

     

    As we could learn in this thread here, there may be a problem with the sensitiveness or WiFi handling on the wireless chipset drivers (firmware) that came with Lion.

    On the other side, there are millions of users out there on Lion without any wireless problem and I'm pretty sure, that the Apple engineers had very good reasons to put this drivers in the version, instead of keeping the former ones.

     

    If you take look on some complaints about Lion and wireless, you may often read "No problem on job or elsewhere but on my home wireless Lion is useless" or vice versa.

    That indicates clearly that Lion (in this cases) could not be the root of the problem. To say it precise, not Lion is the problem it's (if so) the WiFi Stack.

    If the driver where generally faulty or useless the problem would affect any wireless connection and any user, not only just some (even if count in thousands) in office, at home or on public access points.

     

    For that, rant over Lion is not a single step towards a solution. It's talking about a problem instead of looking for a solution that fits the own situation.

     

    As I wrote before, somewhere in this thread, I had a wireless problem too after switching to new MacBook and Airport base. For that I signed in here, read about causes and solutions, monitored my infrastructure, compared all findings and at least found the reason and a solution for my problem within two days.

    Just for curiosity and for trying to reproduce some Lion issues I read about here, 10 days ago I installed Lion from the scratch on a spare system and imported my personal data and app's from a TM backup. As said, just to see what will happen and how Lion handle things.
    Aside from the fact, that I'm definitively not amused with some Lion functions and had some trouble with outdated add ons in Safari and one non compatible application, I had not a single issue since.

     

    The Router is now up and running for 44d 17h 49m since I've cleared my network problems. My MBPro (the working machine) is up for 20d 6h 22m right now without any network issue.

    The Lion system (2008 MB 2.4 c2d 6GB) runs a randomly time triggered benchmark with different kinds of network activity three times in 24h. Until now (uptime 9d 6h 13m) with no issue.

     

    ikkyusan wrote:


    If I was a customer asking you 'why pinging make things works ?' What would you answer ?

    To one who has no glue about OSI, ARP, TCP, IP, CCMP Keys or the way different packets get handled by the stations network interfaces:

    In, more or less, simple words...

    The disassociation of a station in a wireless network is (aside of regular ones) mostly caused by a timeout, if none or wrong answer to a transmission is received.

    For that, there are two possibilities, if you send a constant ping in the network.

    First. The participant in the network who cause the trouble have no reason to time out as it have constantly to decide if one of the ping's may be addressed to it or not nor has a reason to timeout on idle.

    Second. If you are a lucky guy the problematic participant is either the transmitter or the destination of the ping. In this case e.g. addresses are cleared on both sides, no "void sender" or "void receiver" and therefore no timeout and no disassociation.

     

    To one who pretends to have knowledge about networks:

    "R-T-F-M" while finger pointing at Addison-Wesley Networking Basics in the bookshelf.

     

    ikkyusan wrote:

    Yes, of course, altough I cannot imagine how can I suggest this to consumer user, a non expert person modifing settings, or worst to change the driver can cause severe problem leading to reinstall.

    Wireless networking is a highly complicated, crappy piece of s***.

     

    It may look alike to Ethernet network from the viewpoint of a customer, but it is basically as far away from the 1970's invented Ethernet as a 1960's cable based phone system from a actual UMTS cellular phone system. 

     

    Neither Apple, HP, Dell, Lenovo, Sony nor Broadcom or Atheros are able to foresee any possible customer's infrastructure, system settings, used router model, wifi-protocol or network participants. Every case is unique.

    For that, they can only try to match as close as possible the given standard's and RFC's and also try to implement them as good as they can into there products.

     

    It's sad but true: There is very often no plug and play easypeasy wireless networking.

    Especially not as long as marketing departments and customer's wish to integrate stone-age protocols and hardware as well as Ethernet seamlessly into a highly efficient rocket fast multi-band-multifrequency-mimo state of the art wireless network.

     

    It's like the attempt to integrate cars and horse carrigages in the Tokio Highway System on rush hour.

    Hey! Both carry people or goods so lets try it. You would tip your head on such an idea.

     

    For that, customers sometimes faces problems with there wireless construction. And for that also customers are asked to configure, troubleshoot and change settings, if they are able to do so.

    If they are not able to do it, the may ask for support or assign a paid specialist as well as they do if there 2011 Toyota-Hybrid-Car have a problem.

     

    ikkyusan wrote:

     

    The truth, just because everything has already been unsuccesfully applied and tested, is that Apple should publish a patch for a problem that Snow Leopard can handle, and Lion cannot.

    Unfortunately, I'm afraid, you have not applied and tested everything, especially not tested and monitored what happens in your network in a clear troubleshoot attempt.

     

    Take a step away from the Snow Leopard / Lion view.

    It leads to wrong conclusions about cause and effect. The operation system has not much to do with the wifi itself. What handles the connection and the outmost part of the conversation inside the network is the wireless stack (aka driver / firmware) and the wifi-chipset, regardless of running on OS X, Windows, Unix or whatever.

    And what causes the trouble happens in your network, even if the former driver had eventually ignored it.

     

    Unfortunately, there is written conversation here, often with a great lack of information. For that, the attempt to solve difficult problems like the WiFi one in a text based community over great distances and time zones is merely a way of try and error, based on empirical values and things that worked in similar situations.

     

    ikkyusan wrote:

    lupunus wrote:

     

    “People in this world look at things mistakenly, and think that what they do not understand must be the void. This is not the true void. It is bewilderment...” (Miamoto Musashi)

    This is nice, it just suits particularly to your case of looking mistakenly, you should have noticed by now that your suggestions doesn't solve the problem, but worst are not a cure for the symptoms :-)

    The Musashi quote suits well to everyone looking on a situation he will not understand as long as he not realize that he knows nothing.

     

     

     

    Cheers - Lupunus

  • 866. Re: Lion WiFi Connection Problem
    hormelmeatcompany Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    One possible cause (I think at this point, given the number of solutions to fixing it, there are multiple underlying, independent problems) for random disconnects and reconnects might be Lion thinking that the BSSID of the router you are connected to has changed.

     

    I've always noticed that the disconnects happened more frequently at school.

     

    We have 2 SSIDs at school: a WPA2 enterprise one and a normal one which is unsecured but uses a redirect to an HTTPS webpage to authenticate (much like at Starbucks or an airport) with the same credentials (it's either AD or LDAP on the backend) that the secure network uses.

     

    At first, I thought it might have been a WPA2 enterprise vs. personal thing (WPA2 enterprise at school, personal at home) but my breakthrough happened when I realized that that should only affect the speed at which it would reconnect, NOT necessarily the frequency. This was backed up when I connected to the unsecured network and found that the disconnects happened just as frequently as they did on the secure one.

     

    There are usually several routers that I can see with iStumbler. Each one has 2 SSIDs it broadcasts: one for the  WPA2 enterprise SSID and one for the unsecured SSID. They all have the same SSIDs on each router.

     

    To be more specific, each router's secure SSID has a different MAC from all of the other routers' secure SSIDs and each router's unsecured SSID has a different MAC from all of the other routers' unsecure SSIDs. Additionally, a secure and unsecure SSID on the same router will have different MACs (it's usually a single number in the last octet that's different).

     

    I think the root problem may be that Lion thinks the BSSID of the router it is connected to has changed, even when it actually hasn't. I presume that it thinks it's changed because it scans periodically and sees different BSSIDs with the same SSID and instead of realizing that there are multiple BSSIDs with the same SSID, it thinks that there's only 1 BSSID/SSID pair where the BSSID keeps changing. Confusing, I know…

     

    This would explain the greater frequency of the disconnects at school, as there are multiple BSSIDs with the same SSID whereas at home, I only have 1 BSSID that I can see with the SSID it uses.

  • 867. Re: Lion WiFi Connection Problem
    iPreferMac Level 1 Level 1 (85 points)

    I too had the problem of an intermittent connection to our home wi-fi after installing Lion.  What seems to have worked for me having had no issues now for four days, was to ensure that the checkboxes in the advanced network preferences that requires administrator privileges to change networks and turn wi-fi on and off are both enabled on all wi-fi clients running OS X.  Other devices such as iPods, Kindles don't seem to have had the problem.  Seems a simple solution if indeed it does prove to continue to work.

     

    The DNS issue where sites can't be found and Safari tries to find files in the cache also seems to be less of a problem.

  • 868. Re: Lion WiFi Connection Problem
    kickassss Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    thank, it fixed the wifi problem but not sure how long it would last

  • 869. Re: Lion WiFi Connection Problem
    putnik Level 3 Level 3 (690 points)

    Fot those  of you using the latest BT Hub3 routers (British Telecom), here is a forum thread about issues with Mac OSX. It seems the router makes names for devices connected to it and this means the computer can't find DNS information. To quote "In the current setup there is no control over what dhcp adds to it's list of pc's. No option to delete or change info there. So mac OS gets confused over identities of itself and its peer in the network by the info from the hub."  I suspect this type of router is not the only one to have the problem.

     

    http://community.bt.com/t5/Other-BB-Queries/DHCP-home-hub-3-and-mac-os/m-p/14835 7#M2517

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