A Question Regarding RAM...

If you know the answer, or honestly think you know by shear virtue of conviction, then please, by all means contribute a response. Otherwise, I can do all the speculation myself...


I currently have a Macbook Pro 4,1 (2.5Ghz), the last model just before the unibody version. It currently has 4 GB (2x2GB) of RAM, which according to Apple is the max. However, upon further research, I learned that this Mac would accept 6 GB, and since they don't seem to make 3 GB sticks, that would in-tale acquiring a 4 GB stick, and replacing one of the existing 2 GB sticks (which I have done).


IMPRESSIONS:


Now it seems that the imbalance of having a 2 GB & 4 GB sticks slotted, affects dual channelling, as there are not equal pairs installed (but is that really a negative, if after all, one has 6 GB of RAM available?), or so I'm told.


I assumed, that as long as the RAM is 200-pin DDR2, it should fit in the MBP, and that the frequency of the chip is irrelevant, and would run at its designated level, 667Mhz. This I can confirm as I purchased an 800mhz chip and it works (almost felt like a leap of faith).


My impression of the way this issue of RAM works is; Computer manufacturers give you a max based on what is available at the time of manufacture. If 2 GB is the largest that is made, than that is the max that is listed, as chip makers usually are not likely to make them larger.


The chips it seems are limited to a few factors; 1. does it physically fit the slot, 2. does OS support it, and 3. possible firmware compatibility.


So,I pursued the net and checked as many of the credible Mac sites that would address the issue, and I found many conflicting comments from seemingly knowledgable individuals.


THE SITUATION:


In addition to my MBP, I figured I would upgrade my fathers as well, his is a sightly older model that technically takes the same type of RAM, so I purchased 2 x 4GB (PC6400 800Mhz 200-pin DDR2 So-Dimm, why? Because they were cheaper than the PC5300)


Both MBP's had 4GB (2x2GB). I then took both of the 2GB (PC5300 667Mhz200-pin DDR2 So-Dimm) chips I replaced from each machine, and decided to upgrade a third MBP, an original Intel MacBook Pro (2Ghz) from 2GB up to 4 GB. Well, that didn't pan out, as the system failed to boot up entirely...


However, before I did that, I took both of the new 4 GB chips and installed them into my fathers MBP... It all seemed to work. I checked in the Activity Monitor, and the system recognized all 8 GB (or maybe 7.75GB). I even ran a few apps to test things out a bit, and observed the pie chart of usage. All indications were that everything was working smoothly.


QUESTION:


By installing 8 GB in pairs (2x4GB) I assume I regain dual channeling (or am I wrong?). Also is there something that I am missing, is there some deleterious effect that may befall both machines?


We are currently running 6 GB in both MBP's, and want to max both with 8GB (actually I already ordered the chips). Are there any drawbacks to having 6 GB? Has anyone else any experience with any of this?


Please comment if you have, and thank you for your time...



** Next phase – Install Lion on a Hybrid HD or SSD...


(2x4GB)

Posted on Oct 22, 2011 6:37 AM

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Oct 22, 2011 7:28 AM in response to Loyalizer

You only 'regain' dual channeling if the memory architecture of the specific model Mac supported it in the first place & the specifications of the RAM DIMMs themselves match the RAM specifications for the system they are being put into.


Performance differences between 6GB & 8GB RAM will only manifest themselves if your system is actually using all that RAM in the first place. To be honest, this is not likely. There aren't many apps that can use that much RAM. Photoshop CS can; Aperture can. Office apps, browsers, iPhoto, Final Cut and most other apps generally can't use more than about 2-4GB RAM.


As long as the RAM works, you should be fine. However the risk is that if you insert RAM that doesn't match Apple's RAM specs for the model Mac you have, you risk frying either the RAM or the logic board or both. Consider yourself lucky that your 2GHz MBP only failed to boot and didn't end up dead.


Computer manufacturers specify the max RAM based on their design specifications for each product; it is not based on a nebulous "what is available at the time of manufacture". There are many factors that contribute to the amount of RAM a particular computer (motherboard/logic board) can support.

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Oct 24, 2011 10:29 AM in response to MartinR

@ MartinR


-- "Performance differences between 6GB & 8GB RAM will only manifest themselves if your system is actually using all that RAM in the first place. To be honest, this is not likely. There aren't many apps that can use that much RAM."


** Yes, I agree, Photoshop and FInal Cut are two apps that I use and will be using on this machine. However, I is my feeling that the additional RAM will benefit in the number of Applications that I have running at a given time, as well speed up a RAM intensive process, like in PS and FC. Safari seems to be RAM hog, especially when using flash, and I have been known to have up to ten different tabs open...


As I type this now my Activity Monitor reads:


6.00 GB - (5.92 GB -used, 2.59 GB -inactive, 2.94 GB -active, 408.1 MB -wired, 72.7 MB -free)(VM size: 149.55 GB, Page ins: 1.26 GB, Page outs: 57.6 MB, Swap used: 37.3 MB)


-- "However the risk is that if you insert RAM that doesn't match Apple's RAM specs for the model Mac you have, you risk frying either the RAM or the logic board or both."


** What factor determines this, If you match the pins "200 - DDR2", and frequency "667Mhz", why would the amount increase damage the logicboard ?


From what I have researhed thus far, and tested myself, is that the frequency of the ships do regulate themselves either by the OS or logicboard, which exactly, I do not know... However, the system profiler does confirm this...


Thus far, I see it as similar to the power adapter. While in the US I can plug into the walls 120V socket and charge, or run the computer. Likewise, while in the EU without fret, the adapter regulates to work up to 240V...


PoR: Also, I always use static guard to ground myself before touching the RAM or logicboard...


-- "There are many factors that contribute to the amount of RAM a particular computer (motherboard/logic board) can support."


** Can you please elaborate... As far as physically matching the slots of the logicboard by matching the pins, and the OS's ability to read it, what else am I missing?


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Oct 24, 2011 11:16 AM in response to Loyalizer

Simple


1: Use MacTracker to find out the exact amount of RAM your machine can handle.


2: Use Crucial.com checker, punch in your machine and the RAM upgrade most likely used and grab the specs or order it there.



Do not mess around, touch the contacts, discharge static onto the modules or electronics etc.


Use a catch mat and a plastic compartmentalized holder to place each screw/part in order of disassembly so it's reassembled exactly the same way, some screws are longer or of a different thread than others on Mac's.


Use the right tools and follow online pictures and instructions.


The more you mess around and experiment the more reason for something seriously wrong to occur to the hardware and then your out of several thousand dollars of equipment.



It's far better to let your fingers do the walking and your mouse clicking to learn than it is to take a chance on installing the wrong component into the wrong machine.

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Nov 2, 2011 1:15 PM in response to Loyalizer

UPDATE:


Well, I have recieved the new RAM. I installed a total of 8 GB into a Macbook Pro 3,1. Everything seems to be working well. (here are a few screen shots of the System Profiler, and Activity Monitor)


I also want to add, that I attempted to do the same on a MacBookPro 4,1 (2.5 Ghz) Core2Duo and it did not work. The max capacity for RAM on that machine is 6 GB...


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Nov 2, 2011 3:54 PM in response to ds store

Interesting observation:


I have found thus far, the easiest way to determine what the largest RAM chip will work in your machine, is to simply install one chip into a slot and then start your computer. If it works with one then it will work with two.


I tried to place a single 4 GB stick of RAM into the computer, and found that it did not work. However, when I installed the 2 GB stick along with the 4 GB stick, the computer recognised both...



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Nov 2, 2011 8:44 PM in response to Loyalizer

If you match the pins "200 - DDR2", and frequency "667Mhz", why would the amount increase damage the logicboard ?


It's not about the amount of memory. I didn't say that. What I said was about matching the Apple specs for the specific machine. The frequency is important, yes, but equally if not more imporant are more arcane hardware characteristics such as buffering, ECC vs non-ECC, single vs dual channel support, timings, CAS latency, etc. and frankly the quality of the RAM itself; and whether or not the RAM characteristics match what the system (memory controller, memory bus) was designed to support.


While in the US I can plug into the walls 120V socket and charge, or run the computer. Likewise, while in the EU without fret, the adapter regulates to work up to 240V...


That's because the power adapters were specifically designed to support those two voltages.


Would you even consider plugging into 480 VAC in order to get more power? Would you even think for one minute that the system would run if you plugged the adapter into a 24v DC supply? I don't think so. You know it wouldn't work because the voltage or the type of power is beyond the capacity of the adapter to handle it. Well, similar principles apply to RAM as well. The system is designed to support RAM that meets certain specifications. RAM that doesn't meet the specs may or may not work at all; may or may not work reliably; or may or may not damage the system. Depends on the degree of mismatch between the characteristics of the RAM and what the system was designed to support.


I'll just stand by what I said at the end ... so far you have been lucky.

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Nov 7, 2011 1:23 PM in response to Loyalizer

Not sure luck has anything to do wih it, but I have a MacBookPro 2007 model 3,1 working with 8 GB of RAM when I have read from credible sources that list its max as 6 GB, and officially 4 GB...


Also my real world experience shows that 800mhz functions well in two machine that lists 667mhz as it's frequency...



Pics posted above showing Activity monitor and system profiler bares the results...

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A Question Regarding RAM...

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