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Two versions in two different Projects?

2839 Views 45 Replies Latest reply: Nov 13, 2011 12:02 PM by eltjofromu RSS
  • léonie Level 8 Level 8 (46,510 points)
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    Nov 6, 2011 4:04 AM (in response to chacro)
    Likewise, as our skill progresses what was once a 5 star photo will in the future be a 1 star. If you have multiple versions you have to individually change all of them. If you have only one version in the library that shows up in multiple albums you only have to edit that one and all the others instances follow suit.

    That is a very important point you made there. Redundant entries in a database  are wasteful, for they will increase the amount of data and the maintainance work required. And they are potentially  dangerous, as they may be the cause for inconsistencies (contradictory entries), if you forget to apply an update to all copies of an item; so redundant/duplicate entries are strictly to be avoided.

  • chacro Level 1 Level 1 (50 points)
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    Nov 6, 2011 11:17 AM (in response to hotwheels 22)

    hotwheels 22 wrote:


    For instance, I can seeing having an image that I /want/ to be in two different projects instead simply tagged with a keyword that allows it to be found along with the images in the other projects in which it does not reside. Or perhaps I go ahead and set up a Smart Album and I suppose that catches it along with the images in the other Project or Projects.

    Hi Jon,

    Glad I could be of help. Sounds to me like you're starting to get it. To me it seems everything you've stated in this last post is correct, though I'm not 100% sure what you're saying in above quote. You can do whatever you like. Aperture is very flexible. In my opinion though, having duplicate versions in different projects is not 'The Best Practice', and there's no reason I can see to do it. I will always take the metadata road when I see it.


    You might want to do a little experimenting with the button just to the left of the search window. It's a tiny magnifying glass (i guess) in a black rectangle. Can't remember what it's called, but it'll bring up a very powerful filtering window. Here you might hone your metadata skilz. Add some rules. Maybe IPTC and EXIF options. Maybe mutliple instances of each. Spend some time trying out different filtering criteria. Don't forget to hit the little 'X' in the window to the right that clears the filter when you're done. More than once I've forgotten that and have been left wondering what the heck happened to my library.


    Here's an example: I'm considering buying some perspective control lenses. I'm wondering how wide I tend to shoot when doing architectural photography. I do an EXIF filter that shows everything shot under 24mm. I now know that the 24mm shift lens will be sufficiently wide for about 90% of the interiors I shoot. I have the info I need to make a pretty substantial investment.


    Smart albums can be set up with any of the criteria that can be constructed in the filter window. Then you'll have to learn about how their placement affects the scope of the search. It's in the manual.


    Keep plugging. Bone-headed determination will serve you well. It's clear to me that you're sufficiently endowed to make the most of this program :-)



  • chacro Level 1 Level 1 (50 points)
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    Nov 6, 2011 2:04 PM (in response to hotwheels 22)

    I have to admit that this 'Theme Project plus Theme Keyword' thing is a bit unusual. It's happening because you're doing projects based on themes rather than shoots. If there was an easier way to structure on shoot would you do it? It won't work unless your originals have some basic metadata already. Might not work on scans for EG.


    click on 'Photos' right under 'Library'

    put viewer into list view

    click on date column

    you're photos *should* now be listed in chronological order

    select a range by the month or something

    drag those into a new project named by that date range


    Do this as much or as little (one project idea) you'd like to have the projects broken up, and then keyword by theme. A photo could have as many themes as you want. Make smart albums that show the themes.


    Another way, which involves starting again from scratch. It would eliminate your duplicates and make most of this automatic instead of manual. But again, the originals will have to carry a date stamp already. Most likely they do.



    nav to a theme folder

    'Do not import duplicates'

    uncheck all

    put import window in list view (middle of the 3 buttons bottom left)

    select a date range

    click one check box (all selected should become checked)

    select theme keyword preset (might as well add copyright etc)

    import into project named by date range


    The only manual sorting/keywording that you'll need to do is to find the photos that have more than one theme. I'd likely do that by clicking 'Photos' under 'Library' and selecting multiple photos to keyword. I'd probably do this in Viewer mode so I could see as many thumbnails as possible at once. Or maybe I'd work in a theme album and see which of those have more than one theme.


    Ultimately only you can decide what to do, but If I were you I believe I'd start over from the beginning.Then you'd have project strictly by shoot with themes by keyword and nothing duplicated. If in the future you decide a photo has a different theme, or a new theme it's very easily done.


    I'm not trying to monkey-wrench your plans. I just think this will give you a library that's easily managed and makes the most sense. And that's all it is really. Your project by theme idea is fine if it works for you.


    Just some more food for thought. And maybe a few pointers on how powerful the metadata tools are.


  • chacro Level 1 Level 1 (50 points)
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    Nov 7, 2011 6:54 PM (in response to hotwheels 22)

    hotwheels 22 wrote:


    OK. So if I am following you I could /export/ by date to a folder on my desktop? And then I would /import/ with DO NOT IMPORT DUPLICATES and this would have the advantage of eliminating all duplicates?

    Hello Again,


    That's not really what I was thinking. I thought you had folders of photos outside of Aperture organized by theme. I If that's the case I might just start completely fresh with a new library, and do the sorting by date on import. If you don't want to do that you'd just continue on your present course.


    I was also trying to show how you can view your library in different ways that might help with the shuffling. List view can let you see where the versions are living, under 'Project Path'. If you don't see that column you can learn how to add it in the manual. List view also allows you to click on any column and have the list sorted by that, so if you click on file name and you have 2 files with the same name you'll see them adjacent to each other if you're looking at 'Photos' right below 'Library'.


    I'm not big on naming conventions so I don't have much to say about that. I use 'Batch Change' under 'Metadata' to rename by project name and counter. You can do a lot of other things in there too.



  • chacro Level 1 Level 1 (50 points)
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    Nov 11, 2011 5:34 PM (in response to hotwheels 22)

    That sounds right to me.


  • eltjofromu Level 1 Level 1 (85 points)
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    Nov 12, 2011 3:17 AM (in response to hotwheels 22)

    i think for me that there is a bit of a battle going on obviously with the "themes" but i would say that i have a Folder called "mathematical" and then i have Projects in this folder called "algebraic" or "arithmetic" or "division" or whatever. And then I have a folder called "manuscript" and it may have Projects called "book 1" and "book 2" and book 3" or whatever. Then there may be a Folder called "architecture" and a Project called "good construction examples" and one called "good architecture examples".


    It's a very good question because I didn't really think twice about it until you asked. I'm finding this one tricky but manageable and I guess I would propose (?) that I would move forward by importing images and assigning them a "Theme" and/or a "Sub-Theme" by tagging them with these as Keyword. That way I can sort them in this manner in the future.


    Looking at the examples it would make sence to figure out the total taxonomy before creating and taging the keywords:


    "algebraic", "arithmetic", "division". All photo's in this project will be taged algebraic, some will be taged arithmetich and other division.


    "manuscript" and the "book 1" and "book 2" and book 3" or whatever can probably put into different keywords having logical names. Probably the subject of the book?


    The 'good construction examples' as a keyword doesn't make sense to me. This would be one overall keyword: construction. I would give the rating based on the number of stars.


    Would this make sense to you?

  • eltjofromu Level 1 Level 1 (85 points)
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    Nov 12, 2011 10:39 AM (in response to hotwheels 22)

    1. If I think about it there is no reason I can't simply - at least momentarily - tag the /current/ organization with "project #1", "project #2", project #3" and so on. And then /change/ this to something else later once I consider it more. The key is to make sure that I tag them with a keyword NOW before I sort them into a Project by Date or Shoot organization, right?!

    Correct by taging this way you will be able to go back to the old structure.


    2. I mean, since they are organized in a way that makes sense to me /now/ - I don't want to lose this when I put them back to be organized by Date the Photos Were Taken. I mean, this organization into Date Photos Were Taken seems to me to be what everyone means by "one project one shoot", Yes?

    I think so too.


    3. Also, I guess I have been having a bit of a battle with the fact that I find it easiest to drag and drop since I have been doing this for years. I find it pretty direct since the images actually go where they need to go and they /disappear/ once they have been sorted. When I finish a sort there are no more images in a folder. Can I ask you if there is a way to "turn off visibility" for a Keyword or Keywords, so that when I sort Images that are in a Project by Keywords that they actually are no longer seen in the Project? I mean, I can see wanting to tag everything in a Project with a Keyword and if they go away when I do this it will make assigning these easier for me, I think. Then I could turn on visibility later. Does that make sense? I do this from a visibility filter somewhere, yes?

    You can use the filter and add rule keyword, in order to see all non-keyworded photo's select 'are not applied'


    4. I don't intend on using Stars or Flags from what I can tell. I am just using Albums for images that are in use and I am leaving alone any image that is not used. Also, at this point in time I have gone ahead and COLORED any image that is in an Album by adding a color to different Albums. This way I can see that they are in an album almost immediately when I look in the Project. If an image has a purple color in a project I then know it is in one of my "creative" Albums and so on. I also know it is published to the web because all my Albums at the moment get uploaded to the web. Does that make sense to you? The one thing that I can see improving upon here is if I set up a SMART ALBUM that grabbed all the images that I tagged moving forward. Then I could simply ASSIGN AN ALBUM KEYWORD to an image that I wanted in my creative Album (say this Keyword was "creative album 1") then this image would automatically get added, yes? Does this make sense to you? Do you know if there is a way to tell all the images in an Album to be colored purple, for instance, so that I didn't have to go in and do this manually as I am doing now?

    Correct, makes sense. I don't know an automated way. However if you use smart album, you could make an additional one which includes all the one with a keyword, you can then assign the collor to all keyworded photo's. You don't have to go through each and every album anymore.


    5. OK. "good construction examples". From what I can tell I can work out the Keyword Taxonomy as I move along, yes? I mean if Book 1 etc does not work great I can change it. Or if I want I can somehow tell Aperture to show me only the images that have that keyword - and then I can either change the name of the keyword to something else or i can subdivide the images in that keyword and split them into two other keyword or even add "sub - keywords" (like a second keyword) to some of the images, yes? The one thing I have not figured out is that I really don't ever (like ever) take a "shoot" in the conventional sense of one block of photos is one theme or one topic. If i upload images (say 50 images from a week or a trip or whatever) I will have photos that might be someone else's buildings under construction (7 images), there might be one of my projects under construction (15 images), there might be of a friend or of something interesting that I saw (13 images) or of someone's sculptural work (12 images) or maybe the title of a book or a shot of a product I want to buy (6 images) . Right now I take all the projects under construction and dump them into a "construction photos" Project and I take the sculptural photos and dump them into a "creative" project and I take the photos of my project and I put them into a project with client's name etc, etc. And we are saying that I am now going to stop doing this once I get the database together and instead I am going to add KEYWORD instead and leave all these disparate images in the same project as I move forward, yes?

    Your workflow looks normal. The problem arrised when you wanted to put the same picture in different project.


    With your database having thousants of pictures it would makes sense to work on the keywording taxonomy first. In your current way of speaking it looks to me as if you are using a combination of keywords as one. It's better to use single keywords and assign mulitipe keywords to your photo's. In the smart album you will be able to gather the photo's together again. I could be wrong on this?


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