1 2 3 4 5 Previous Next 123 Replies Latest reply: Nov 27, 2011 5:05 PM by Tony T1 Go to original post
  • 30. Re: Rotating pictures in Preview
    Tony T1 Level 6 Level 6 (8,385 points)

    Tom in London wrote:

     

    jdaw1 wrote:

     

    I want the OS never to change my files without my explicit consent.

    Precisely. You wouldn't let anyone physically take your documents - any or all of them - and make changes to them. I don't understand how Apple has acquired the right to do that with my digital documents. What did I agree to? Where is it in the End User Agreement ? Can someone point me to that?

     

    If I issue a ⌘R on my document, how is that not explicit consent to change the document?

    The confusion is that we have gotten used to using a file that is opened as a temporary file, only to be made permenant with a ⌘S.  Well, that was just bad practice, we should have been working on a copy ("Duplicate") for this purpose.  In any event, Versions makes is very simple to get back to where we were ("Revert Document").

     

    These changes are for the better.

  • 31. Re: Rotating pictures in Preview
    Tony T1 Level 6 Level 6 (8,385 points)

    jdaw1 wrote:

     

    Preview is used to see (even to see rotated) very many files.

     

    What I'm having trouble understanding is that the change to the workflow from:

          Open File, ⌘R, Next

         to

         Open File, ⌘R, ⌘L, next

     

    Does not seem to be as big a deal.  I understand that you (really) do not like this change, but when you issue a command to Rotate Right, you are indeed giving an explicit command to change the file.

  • 32. Re: Rotating pictures in Preview
    Tony T1 Level 6 Level 6 (8,385 points)

    jdaw1 wrote:

     

    Please could the participants in this marriage make a special rule for Preview. Perhaps it could have an ‘inviolate originals’ tick somewhere? Please?

     

    There is.  See "Lock Document", however, If you do, then you won't be able to Rotate Right.

    I understand that you see ⌘R as just a view adjustment (similair to zoom), but it's not implemented that way.

  • 33. Re: Rotating pictures in Preview
    Tony T1 Level 6 Level 6 (8,385 points)

    mulligans missus wrote:

    I have been getting around it by importing my pics into iPhoto (sometimes Apeture) and rotating the files there and saving the changed files to a desktop folder, and then they are rotated when I need to insert them.

     

    How does this work?  The images will be saved as rotated, not as original (what the OP wants).

    Anyway, this is no different than saving the images to a Desktop Folder ("Duplicate"), and then opening the Desktop Folder in Preview to view and rotate (work on copy, not original as we do not want to save chages and trash when finished)

  • 34. Re: Rotating pictures in Preview
    jdaw1 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    (New posters: if you say that it is terrible then Apple will ignore you. Don’t be rude about the new wife. Even if you hope that the new wife will be abandoned sooner than was Mrs Clippy, being rude about her will be met with unhelpful defensiveness. Big companies are slow to admit errors. Instead claim — cross fingers behind back and lie — that it is nice, but “could be even nicer”. A necessary lie.)

     

    Tony,

     

    You are defending the Apple line. (You started doing so just after I commented on a story at the Financial Times: I do not know whether the timing was concidence.) So please help me by suggesting how I can now do something that was easy under the previous Snow Leopard.

     

    • Lots of pictures to be viewed, opened from Finder with command-A command-O.
    • Files not to change. My files, inviolate. It is important that the files be the originals.
    • Not having to revert, one at a time, petty changes to hundreds of my files.
    • Pictures are to be seen in the correction orientation, without tilting head, nor tilting monitor.
    • No annoying pop-up dialogs.
    • Pictures to remain in the one window, in order.

     

    Please, rather than repeatedly praising the new model, how do I do that? If it is impossible, pleae acknowledge the loss of functionality to Tim Cook.

     

    Thank you.

     

    PS: Command-R, command-L, means that my files are no longer original. In a differenty context that has legal consequences. Original files, untampered.

     

    PPS: do any of the new posters have access to very old versions of Preview? I want to test Preview from each old OS, in the hope that one will work under Lion.

  • 35. Re: Rotating pictures in Preview
    Tony T1 Level 6 Level 6 (8,385 points)

    You are defending the Apple line.

     

    Why?, but because I agree that the user should not use an original file as a temp file?

     

     

    jdaw1 wrote:

     

    So please help me by suggesting how I can now do something that was easy under the previous Snow Leopard.

     

    Well, since any suggestion requires you changing your work habits (and we're fully aware that you are resistant to changes of any kind), I'm afraid that there is no solution in Lion (for you), so just continue tilting your head to view the files

     

    But for other users not so resistant to change, if you insist on using an original file as a temp file, just remember to return the file to it's original state (i.e. if you are issuing a command to change the file with ⌘R, just remember to issue a command to ⌘L), however, this is a very bad practice.  If you do not want to change the original file, copy to a temporary folder on your desktop first, and when done delete the temporary folder.

  • 36. Re: Rotating pictures in Preview
    Tony T1 Level 6 Level 6 (8,385 points)

    jdaw1 wrote:

     

    You are defending the Apple line. (You started doing so just after I commented on a story at the Financial Times: I do not know whether the timing was concidence.)

     

    Actually, it is a coincidence.

    But for an article more on point to this discussion, see:

        Mac OS X 10.7 Lion: the Ars Technica review - Document model

     

    "Despite decades of public exposure to personal computers, human expectations and habits have stubbornly refused to align with the traditional model of creating, opening, and saving documents."

     

    "Not every change is meant to be saved, after all. The practice of speculatively making radical changes to a document with the comfort of knowing that none of those changes are permanent until we hit ⌘S is something experienced Mac users take for granted and may be loath to give up."

     

    This was not a trival change by Apple.  I'm afraid that your hope of getting an option to have it your way are slim

  • 37. Re: Rotating pictures in Preview
    Stoaty Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I do see both sides to this.  To Apple (and probably most users) the change to the image file is trivial - it is just a change to the meta-data describing the orientation of the image - probably a few bytes of data.  Most users would not want to "save" changing the orientation of an image if it is wrong and prefer the one step approach.  And no doubt, Apple had a big focus group to discuss this aspect of the user interface.  It certainly would not have been done by an over zealous programmer.

     

    Unfortunately, it has raised the valid issue of users being in control of their files.  I do agree with jdaw1.  It is the users file and it should be their choice to change it - or not.  And not all changes are meant to be saved.

     

    I do not think having an option in Preview to autosave changes is difficult.  Preview is not a complicated application and it is the autosave functionality in Lion that enables recovery of previous versions.  But the chances of Preview being changed are slim.

  • 38. Re: Rotating pictures in Preview
    Tom in London Level 4 Level 4 (1,585 points)

    Tony T1 wrote:

     

    we have gotten used to using a file that is opened as a temporary file, only to be made permenant with a ⌘S.  Well, that was just bad practice

     

    Oh right. 20 years of bad practice. Excuse me.

     

    I need to be able to open a file in Preview, play around with it in all kinds of ways, often undoing or re/doing, ON THE SAME FILE, not some other version of it. I want to work on one file at a time because remember, I may be using that file to write a report in another application (and I only want to have one file open in that application too - the one I CAN SEE ON MY SCREEN.

     

    Then when I've finished playing around with I need to be able to hit command + s and save it.

     

    Or not, if I don't want to save it.

     

    Or save it with a different name, to a different place, keeping the original file unchanged.

     

    Sorry about those bad practices that I've been doing all these years. How could I have been so dumb? I guess I'm not good enough for Lion.

     

    Oh and I don't want my files to be locked, ever. Not even after 10 years. Why would I? What is the point of my files being locked ? I have more than ten years of archived files that I refer back to from time to time. I don't want them to be locked. I cannot for the life of me understand why they should be,

  • 39. Re: Rotating pictures in Preview
    Tony T1 Level 6 Level 6 (8,385 points)

    Tom in London wrote:

    I need to be able to open a file in Preview, play around with it in all kinds of ways, often undoing or re/doing, ON THE SAME FILE

     

    Exactly what Verions if for.  And if you want to revert to a version that you were "playing around with" yesterday, last week, or even last month, you can.

     

    Or save it with a different name, to a different place, keeping the original file unchanged.

     

    Also covered in Versions.  File->Export As.

  • 40. Re: Rotating pictures in Preview
    Tom in London Level 4 Level 4 (1,585 points)

    Tony T1 wrote:

     

    Tom in London wrote:

    I need to be able to open a file in Preview, play around with it in all kinds of ways, often undoing or re/doing, ON THE SAME FILE

     

    Exactly what Verions if for.  And if you want to revert to a version that you were "playing around with" yesterday, last week, or even last month, you can.

    I seem to be talking to the wall here. I said THE SAME FILE. Not another version of it. The same file.

     

    I hope that is now clear.

  • 41. Re: Rotating pictures in Preview
    jdaw1 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Versions? In a typical day on my rubbish Windoze work computer I use about a dozen spreadsheets. If that were an Apple machine, then insisting that I revert some of those would be but a minor burden. I could live with that.

     

    But Preview is a fundamentally different thing: it is used to view, not to construct. And (in my happier S-L life) I would open hundreds of JPGs at a time, whizz through them, digitally rotating almost as if being easy for the user was of any importance (silly me!), see what I want to see, and then close without saving. Inviolate originals.

     

    My Snow-Leopard Mac was a pleasure to use. Now I am paranoid about not doing anything that would cause Apple, who have deprived me of control of my machine, from altering the files I want inviolate. Pleasure has become paranoia.

     

    Tim Cook: hear your users. Pleasure deleted, replaced with paranoia and neck-ache. Is it really the user’s fault that isn’t seen as progress?

  • 42. Re: Rotating pictures in Preview
    Tony T1 Level 6 Level 6 (8,385 points)

    jdaw1 wrote:

     

    But Preview is a fundamentally different thing: it is used to view, not to construct.

     

    ok, there's the problem.  I now see your confusion, as the name of the App, "Preview" leads you to believe that Preview is only an image viewer.   Preview is also an image editor

     

    You should look for a 3rd party image viewer

     

    Screen Shot 2011-11-23 at 5.42.13 PM.png

  • 43. Re: Rotating pictures in Preview
    Tony T1 Level 6 Level 6 (8,385 points)

    Tom in London wrote:

    I said THE SAME FILE. Not another version of it. The same file.

     

    Well, sorry, but you can no longer work on a file as if it were a temp file.  You have no choice with Lion (and chances are slim that this will change, but hey, who knows).  Either stay with SL, or move to another OS X.  (You can switch to an App that does not have Versions now, but that will likely change when they update). 

  • 44. Re: Rotating pictures in Preview
    jdaw1 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Translation: Apple has changed. Apple has removed a way of working to which you have been become accustomed over the twenty-three years that you have owned a Mac. In doing so we have destroyed your workflow. Tough; get used it; Apple is now big and can make the rules.

     

    Meanwhile, do any users have access to old (perhaps very old) versions of Preview? Maybe one will work under Lion. Please compress; upload somewhere; and send me the location.

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