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What happened to Save As?

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GunnerBuck Calculating status...
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Jul 27, 2011 6:12 AM

I use pages for my work invoices and have a pretty comprehensive filing for previous invoices. The omission of 'save as' in the lion version of pages is extremely frustrating. Is there a work around? Will they fix this in the future or should I switch to a microsoft excel worksheet?

Pages, Mac OS X (10.7)
  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,760 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 27, 2011 7:04 AM (in response to GunnerBuck)

    There are already several long threads about this subject.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 27 juillet 2011 16:00:58

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0


    Please :

    Search for questions similar to your own

    before submitting them to the community

    This time the keystring "Save as" AND lion  would be efficient !

     

    To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

  • Dennis_Burnham Calculating status...
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    Aug 31, 2011 6:36 PM (in response to GunnerBuck)

    This is just such a idiotic programming change it is unbelievable.  The Save As command has existed for more than 20 years and literally tens of millions of people have learned what it means.  So some idiot at Apple decided to do away with Save As which was working just fine and replace it with Duplicate and Save a Version. ????  Are you kidding me?

     

    And they want us to write feedback notes, too?

     

    How much time is wasted by something like this ... people screwing up their work, poking around in these discussions looking for answers, calling Apple Care, writing comments like the one I am writing now.

     

    All because some lame-brain got a goofy idea about how to change the world and for no apparent benefit whatsoever.  Let someone explain to me how Duplicate and Save a Version are in any way an improvement over the perfectly acceptable and successful way we have managed version changes since 1984.

  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,760 points)
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    Sep 1, 2011 1:13 AM (in response to Dennis_Burnham)

    Are you sure that it's the change which is "idiotic" as you wrote ?

     

    Sometimes I wonder if this word wouldn't apply better to some ranters.

     

    If you dislike the new features, uninstall Lion (which nobody forces you to buy) and return to the old fashioned system.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) jeudi 1 septembre 2011 10:13:26

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

    My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>


    Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

  • Dennis_Burnham Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
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    Sep 1, 2011 5:41 AM (in response to KOENIG Yvan)

    Yes, you moron, of course I am certain or I would not have wasted my time "ranting" as you call it.  With experience on this computer platform since 1984 and a shareholder for many years, I have earned the right to express an opinion that is, if I do say so myself, educated.

     

    I did not say that there is anything wrong with Lion, notwithstanding some early adoption problems that will certainly become corrected in subsequent releases. Only a fool would discard that much progress because of a few minor glitches having to be learned or resolved.

     

    The removal of SAVE AS is different.  It's a classic "ain't broke don't fix it" example.  On a system known for its intuitiveness, Save a Version is as counterintuitive as can be.  You execute the command and you're still on the same document, so what is the "version" and how does it differ from "Save" ?  The Duplicate command has worked splendidly in Photoshop, where there is a reason to have two identical docs open together.  In a word processing environment, that makes sense when you use BBEdit to compare text in multiple docs.  In Pages, as a substitute for Save As, it only results in your having to close the one you just duplicated and eventually use an additional step to name the new one something other than "copy".

     

    This change is totally indefensible.  If someone can explain the rationale, go ahead.  Otherwise, you can call me an idiot or a ranter, but it's obvious by the existence of these discussions of the problem that I've got the world on my side on this one.

  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,760 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 1, 2011 6:43 AM (in response to Dennis_Burnham)

    This change is perfectly coherent.

    It's you which used the word idiotic to define the choice made by Apple.

    They are perfectly free to make the changes which they want as well as you are perfectly free to drop their products.

    Alas for you, every third product will be updated to take benefit of Lion new features.

    Some will do that the way used by xCode, others will do that the way used by TextEdit, Keynote, Numbers, Pages…

     

    The logic behind the changes were explained several times but you just prove that you are unable to understand such simple things.

     

    I guess that you are ready to switch to Mer.oSoft products !

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) jeudi 1 septembre 2011 15:43:20

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

    My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>


    Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

  • mitchbentley Calculating status...
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    Sep 27, 2011 4:34 PM (in response to KOENIG Yvan)

    Koenig, you are being a jerk. Dennis_Burman didn't say a word about Lion... and he is absolutely right. The change is itiotic.

  • Dennis_Burnham Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 27, 2011 10:19 PM (in response to mitchbentley)

    I didn't want to quarrel with Koenig, but I am glad to see someone else feels the same way I do. I had a support rep on the phone the other day and he agreed with me that Save A Version is confusing.  I noticed today that the keyboard shortcut for Save a Version is the same as the old Save command, so if you routinely save while typing from time to time, you are saving a version, whatever that means.  I also noticed today that when I went to Revert to a my previously saved file when I wanted to discard my work, what appeared was a Time Machine sort of interface that was limited to just the document I was working on, so I guess that is what the auto-save is doing.

     

    Regarding Lion, I could make other complaints about the first generation of Launchpad and the way your work is now slowed down if you need to use the arrow keys on your keyboard where you used to be able to click at the top or bottom of the scroll bars.  I find the behavior of the swiping on my Magic Mouse to be annoying.  My desk surface doesn't have enough friction for me to use the page-up/page-down gestures, it just makes the mouse slide around on the desk.  So i either have to put some abrasive or rubber cement on my desk or go back to having a mousepad under the optical Magic Mouse.  Sorry if these Lion comments are off-topic.  It just makes me wonder what environment or what kind of users were doing all the beta testing for Lion.

  • mitchbentley Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Sep 28, 2011 6:53 AM (in response to Dennis_Burnham)

    Indeed, I agree - both that this is off-topic and that there are other issues...

    I actually use a trackball (Kensington Pro), which does have a large footprint, but has made both the mouse and keyboard (except for the obvious) almost obsolete. It has saved me from carpal tunnel and increased my productivity.

     

    Compared to the whole gestures thing - well, I just don't know. I never use a pad on my laptop; I plug in my trackball, and I don't have a phone that uses any gestures, nor an iPad... all of which makes gestures sound reasonable, if difficult to learn. I have watched my wife get used to her new Droid and it has been a challenge. I have no use for a phone that requires more than a single button push to make a call, myself. If I want to surf or research, I don't really want to do it on a phone... but I do understand the convenience. We have certainly have taken advantage of it - but one in the house is fine. I really don't need my production computer to behave like a pad or a phone, though.

     

    For me, I have ordered SL disks. I think Lion is too much of a change. Mine came on a new iMac and it is not working out too well for my Graphics Production. But that's just me... I am sure this will be a great OS for the newest young adult generation who cannot even imagine life without their internet connected phones.

  • Yvan KOENIG Calculating status...
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    Sep 28, 2011 2:31 PM (in response to Dennis_Burnham)

    It's simple,

     

    beta tester tested the operating system and discovered iWork 9.1 when it was delivered to the rest of us

    As Apple user since the Apple ][ and shareholder since 1996 ($24 each)

    As the guy which built two versions of the French GSOS (it was dropped by Apple France)

    As the guy which built the French AppleWorks GS (and Claris allowed me to sell it)

    I think that I may give my advice if I want.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 28 septembre 2011 23:28:50

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

    My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>


    Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

     

     

  • Dennis_Burnham Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
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    Sep 29, 2011 2:44 AM (in response to GunnerBuck)

    Thank you, Gunner for those kind words of wisdom.  I admit that I wrote a rather harsh message about the subject that opened this discussion and I was not surprised to have someone rebuke me for not sharing his point of view.  The world is full of opinionated people and I count myself among them, but I draw the line at being nasty just for the sake of expressing myself in public.

     

    Back to the point though, I see that my answer was marked as the "correct" one, but it really isn't the answer at all.  Mine is still a question:  what's the meaning of Save a Version?  What's the logic behind making a duplicate and saving that under a new name, leaving two open document windows?  If there is a different way these new menu commands should be used, I am willing to learn it.

     

    Incidentally, I have observed that Text Edit is also changed in Lion, and with those changes comes another bug:  I used to be able to paste clipboard images from my screen capture program, SnapZPro (Ambrosia) but that no longer works.  I can paste other clipboard images into Text Edit, but not from SnapZPro.  And the same SnapZPro image that can't be pasted into TextEdit from SnapzPro can still be pasted into other program documents.

     

    Go figure.

  • dusner Calculating status...
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    Dec 7, 2011 2:03 PM (in response to GunnerBuck)

    The removal of the Save As command is a stupid move and I hope someone deep in the bowels of Apple will get the message. Unfortunately, this is just one of many changes that make Apple software harder to use. I really wish I could get through to someone at Apple. They're dismantling all that was wonderful about Mac software AND hardware. It seems that someone from Microsoft has infiltrated Apple and is determined to make the Mac OS and other Apple software just as awkward, bloated and difficult to use as Microsoft products.

  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,760 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 8, 2011 12:45 AM (in response to Dennis_Burnham)

    Save a Version was described several times.

     

    It save the late changes in a hidden folder whose contents is used when you ask the app to move back to an older version.

    I posted details and tools enhancing its power in :

    https://discussions.apple.com/message/16208616

    2011-12-08T09.42.33.jpg

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France)  jeudi 8 décembre 2011 09:45:15

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

    My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>


    Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

     

     

  • mitchbentley Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Dec 8, 2011 6:33 AM (in response to KOENIG Yvan)

    Yes, you have described it several times.

    Yes, we have said several times that is is stupid and we don't like it.

    Yes, you keep insisting it is a great thing because you worked on it and you are a stock holder.

     

    Grovey for you. We remain dissatisfied and hate the change, as do many others out there who have not found this thread. I now have multiple steps to perform what used to be a single "Save As" just so I can have different versions I can find without the itiotic "Time Machine" like search for a revert that I don't want to revert to, just open and do something with. Same with the stupid "This doccument is locked because you haven't worked on it in some time, are you sure you want to save these changes" dialoge. Well, duh. If I didn't want to save the changes, I wouldn't have clicked command-s, now would I?

     

    You people are NOT LISTENING to your customers.

    You are instead, defending a change that is indefensible to us. You may as well be trying to convert us to a different religion.

     

    Desktops are not hand-helds and the physics of use are different. The application of use is different. These differences make moving the OS to reflect hand-held devices a bonehead move that reeks of corporate push for sales, ignoring actual customer base, relations and usage. This OS direction is likely gain you the younger hand-held market in the begining, but they will not see a need for desktops in the long run (that marked sees no need to actually own printers even), so they will not stay will it. In the mean time, Apple will lose their existing customer base due to arrogance and pride because they will not listen to those who actually WORK in this desktop environment.

     

    My wife works at Penn State as a professor. She teaches in communications at the Capital Campus. She says they will not be upgrading to Lion because of these changes. If Apple loses the educational industry over this, the reprocussions will be severe in the long haul.

     

    Apple better be paying attention.

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