Currently Being ModeratedDec 21, 2011 2:09 PM (in response to blakkheim)
this is actually what i followed from the last post on this site: http://thoughts.maayank.com/2011/08/wireless-problems-with-macbook-air-and.htmlAlas, it seems I have no Atheros, but a Broadcom. Excitement with possible solution went from 100% to 0 in 10 seconds. Could it be that the same fiasco happened with Atheros also happened with Broadcom?
Well, turns out that YES. I've downgraded my WiFi drivers to the 10.6.4 drivers and it worked!
*Happy dance*I've basically used the instructions and link provided by the user 'BananaMacintosh' (which, in turn, are a modification of instructions given by 'tenortim') with the minor change that I used Kext Wizard and not Kext Utility, since it was easier for me to verify that I had the last version of that tool and that it worked well on Lion.
0) We will replace the related kext (Kernel Extension) that contains drivers for different WiFi chipsets. Do it at your own risk.
1) Download http://hotfile.com/dl/111337068/eee082f/IO80211Family_Kext_10_6_4.zip.htmland extract it. Notice that it contains an item called 'IO80211Family.kext'.
2) Download and open Kext Wizard. Go to the Installation tab, click browse and choose the newly extracted kext file. Check the "Backup kexts..." checkbox, so you can remedy the fix in the future. Click Install.
3) After the installation is finished, go to the Maintenance tab and select "System/Library/Extensions". It should select the two sub-options. Press execute and wait for finish.
CoreWLAN: 2.1 (210.1)
CoreWLANKit: 1.0 (100.43)
Menu Extra: 7.0 (700.42)
configd plug-in: 7.1 (710.2)
System Profiler: 7.0 (700.3)
IO80211 Family: 3.1.1 (311.1)
WiFi Diagnostics: 1.0 (100.26)
AirPort Utility: 5.5.3 (553.20)
Card Type: AirPort Extreme (0x14E4, 0xE9)
Firmware Version: Broadcom BCM43xx 1.0 (22.214.171.124.1)
MAC Address: [censored]
Country Code: X0
Supported PHY Modes: 802.11 a/b/g/n
Supported Channels: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 36, 40, 44, 48, 52, 56, 60, 64, 149, 153, 157, 161, 165
Wake On Wireless: Supported
In particular, notice the different firmware version. So indeed, it seems like a software problem in Lion. Since not everyone is affected by this problem, perhaps it also requires some hardware variation? (i.e. a certain chipset revision)
Hopefully, since it's a software problem Apple could theoretically release a canonical fix to this problem in a later update.
Hope you found the information interesting/useful. Post your experiences.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 21, 2011 3:56 PM (in response to jliv)
It's been nearly a week since I swapped out Lion Broadcom driver for the one from Snow Leopard and since then I've seen a marked improvement in wi-fi performance. I've had one or two drop outs but more importantly for me, it has eliminated the randomly occurring slow downs. The only other action I've taken is to change my router to use channel 3, which isn't being used by the dozen or so wi-fi networks nearby.
I'm on a late 2009 iMac running 10.7.2.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 21, 2011 5:56 PM (in response to blakkheim)
The mere fact that you had to go to such lengths really proves that Apple is not the company they once were. It's been around six months since the release date of Lion and they've not fixed a MAJOR problem? What a freaking joke. The fact they haven't released SOMETHING even acknowledging this is even more disappointing. If they'd simply release a statement saying they're working on it I might consider buying a new Mac again....but now I'm not. Sticking with homebrew Linux tower after this iMac becomes obsolete.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 22, 2011 12:38 PM (in response to IzzyJG99)
I really am not sure I understand how you can say this with a straight face. If you know what the answer is, for all of these people having all of these problems, then why don't you tell us. The people working at Apple have a very, large distinct disadvantage! They don't have your hardware in your environment. Given the vast range of "sometimes" solutions and "always" problems with ... it seems that your are a bit of an alarmist about this being Apple being lazy and unwilling to deal with it. People have posted here that Apple does know there is something to work on. They are, apparently working on it, and are, apparently not finding an immediate solution.
My guess is that this really is an interference issue, and it has to do with certain hardware with certain types of receiver subsystems, including antennas. The driver, in concert with the network stack (Wifi->IP->TCP) is not behaving correctly, clearly!
But, simply saying that Apple doesn't care, is beyond sane. You have no idea how Apple is dealing with this issue internally, nor how Apple management and employees feel about it.
They may not be dealing with it the way you've seen other vendors deal with it, but that, is their decision. Apple is, well, Apple. They're working on this. They are also working on tons of other issues associated with the whole iCloud "moment".
Currently Being ModeratedDec 22, 2011 3:07 PM (in response to gphonei)
While I agree with some of what you are saying, I have to wonder why you so often (and I do mean often) feel compellled to defend Apple. They're a big company. I suspect they can fend for themselves. So, unless you're an Apple employee, you may want to consider your position a little more carefully, lest you be labeled a zealot or worse yet, a fanboy.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 22, 2011 3:57 PM (in response to jliv)
I am not defending Apple. I'm suggesting that the crap people are throwing out here which is "beating down" Apple has no supporting reality. These customers either have 1 year support, no support, or 3 years of additional Apple Care for their computers. That's the support path that Apple has in place. If they have "no support", than that's the position they've elected to be in. If they've talked to Apple Care and still don't have a solution, then they still need to keep going back. The people that they talk to are the path that Apple provides from their customers to the business mechanics. It can only work as well as the customers demand that it work. If you call and get mad at the people on the phone, and let them know exactly how much you need a solution, you will make them unhappy enough to demand that their be a solution too. It will make a much bigger impact on Apple than griping and whining here.
Using Apple Care (or any other kind of issue/logging based customer support) is like voting. If you don't vote, how can you possibly believe that you have any "right" to stand around and complain about what is happening around you. If you don't tell your elected representatives what matters to you and what you need done, do you think that they'll know what to do for you? This is the real world, not some imaginary world where some "miracle" is just going to happen. Participate in the process, and since its the process that Apple says we should use, than if it's not working for you, tell Apple it stinks.
If you know (I did not say think) that Apple is ignoring you and your needs, than keep telling them that you are a paying customer, and that you can vote with your wallet. I am all for this problem getting fixed and I firmly belive that Apple is responsible for helping all of their paying customers, who have support contracts, resolve the issue.
I also know that there is nothing obvious as a solution, and as a Software engineer who has worked in the industry for close to 3 decades now, as well as being an Amatuer Radio licensee who has quite a bit of knowledge of RF and interference and how that all works, I don't see anything definative going on here. Clearly something changed when Lion was installed. So, you can really imagine that it's just a software problem and that all people need to do, is just have a driver fix.
However, people are posting here that replacing the Lion driver with the Snow Leopard driving doesn't always stay working. Thus, for me, it seems closer to being a combination of things. Perhaps, that the driver changed in how it dealt with interference patterns, and is now creating a behavior, visible to the stack above, which that stack above doesn't handle very effectively. But, I'm just guessing, as is everyone else here.
We can either stand around and whine and gripe, waiting for a bit of "magic" or a "miracle" to happen, or we can use the "details" of what is happening when the failure happens to eliminate or discover the facts that are visible in our investigations.
I am not convinced that everyone who reported "success" here has come back to say "ahh crap that didn't last". I think that probably most people are in the "area" of "it works better now, but still bugs out", and I'm still just resetting/rebooting/pluging in the ethernet cable. There are a few people that seem to be having continued luck. Several of those bought new routers, changed frequencies and did other things that still point at "inteference" being the problem. Some switched channels, some went from 2.4ghz to 5ghz, or just got a device with a technically better RF deck that can better ignore/deal with interference.
Often, the people running around calling out FanBoy or Zealot are the ones that feel better if they can belittle someone for something which they don't believe/like. I am sorry that those people have such low self esteem. But, I appreciate the fact that people are paying attention to the passion that is visible in my posts.
I'm serious about Apple needing to fix this, just like others are. This is the kind of problem that is very problematic to solve. Especially if you understand the layers and layers of software involved here, and the decades of development and how that means 100s of people have made "little fixes" to network stacks, everywhere, and some of those fixes are optimizations that are only applicable in very specific cases, and can be problematic in others. Companies/OSes are replacing their network stacks here and there because of how the systems can degenerate overtime due to the complexities of everything weaved into the software.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 22, 2011 4:53 PM (in response to gphonei)
With all due respects I spent 2000 for my MBP, my second Mac in 8 years. I upgraded in good faith to Lion knowing that Apple is a superior product and would not throw an OS out until it was ready, regardless of whether or not I spent an additional 350 bucks on support I never need with my PowerBook. So IMHO Apple needs to fix this for all of us, not just the apple care folks.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 22, 2011 4:56 PM (in response to gphonei)
800+ word reply. Made note of your three decades of programming experience. Kind of half-hearted opinion on the Wi-Fi issue without really taking a side one way or another. What's that called? Oh, yes. Shill posting.
To even pull the "Oh, you complain but don't call up Apple cause you're either too dumb to have it or don't use it" is absurd. It's well documented here and on other forums many of us have contacted Apple about this. Apple even called ME after I filed a software bug complaint. The guy on the phone wanted me to install some kind of program to monitor the drops. I told him straight up I had already gone to 10.6.8 again for the sake of my own sanity. If they want to test a TCP/IP problem call their developers, not consumers. That was 5 months ago. And here we are. Still problems.
My original post put an emphasis on only one thing, which I find it hard for anyone to argue against. I just want Apple to, for those of us lingering about with 30 dollars out of our pockets, simply say they plan on addressing the problem in earnest. Unfortunately they seem to be more concerned with iOS development and iCloud.
Like I said all I want is Apple, like in the good old days during the fiasco that was OS 7 to let us, the people who paid good money, to know it'll be attended to and fixed. Which is not asking much. Not much at all.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 22, 2011 7:26 PM (in response to gphonei)
Sorry brother. I guess I was a bit harsh. No one on this thread needs to be told to keep pointing on Apple Support. We're already doing that. We just want it fixed. That's all. We just want it fixed.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 22, 2011 7:36 PM (in response to lrogersinlv)
gphonei, I think some of your points are valid, but the key problem is that in post after post where people have contacted Apple Support, they are being told the problem doesn't exist. There are only a couple of posts in this thread where anyone stated that apple even awknowledged a potential problem. And a LOT of people in this thread have contacted them. And a lot of people have spent hours dealing with them on multiple occasions.
You can take offense to the "apple doesn't care about the problem' statement all you want. But I think it's clear Apple doesn't care about the CUSTOMERS. There are a lot of people in this thread who would be very relieved just to hear them aknowledge the problem and say they are working on a solution. They won't even do that for people who are spending hours of their time on the phone though.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 23, 2011 1:30 AM (in response to torndownunit)
I am a very basic computer user, surfing, mail but primarily Photoshop editing of my photos, what goes on beneath the interface is beyond me, I am not defending Apple but this is just my experience with Lion, I upgraded a 2.5 year old 17" MBP with only very minor issues with the wifi which was solved by deleting the various connection points from coffee shops etc and dragging my primary router name to the top of the list that remained, stable ever since, I have ( 2 weeks ) ago bought a new 17" MBP, I bought it home, unboxed it, connected it to the older machine to use the migration assistant, 2 hours later everything up and running with no additional adjustments needed, it connects to my wifi router and is stable. I live in an area in the UK which does not have the super fast broadband connection available though it is improving from the initial 3.5 to a more reasonable to just over 6 download speed so any slight delays are down to traffic during the evening, I am using the BT HH3 and it has selected channel 11 as the best option to avoid interference from nearby routers.
I understand this is going to be no help to those having problems but a newcomer reading this thread may have come to the conclusion that no one has a working wifi connection.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 23, 2011 2:22 AM (in response to Arthur Jacks)
I don't know if this will help anyone in relation to the driver's issue, but I have both Lion and SL installed on two partitions on the internal disk of my MBP (details at the bottom of this ost).
Wifi works fine on both systems and interestingly, the firmware version is the same. Does anyone have any idea what the numbers in brackets refer too ??
SL Wifi Details (Green):
Lion Wifi Details (Yellow):MacBook Pro 2.53GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, Mac OS X (10.6.8), 4GB 1067 MHz DDR3
Currently Being ModeratedDec 23, 2011 7:27 AM (in response to torndownunit)
There is no doubt that people are spending their time trying to get the problem resolved, with Apple Care, or otherwise. My point, in a more direct statement is, you paid for the product, it's not working to your expectations, they have a support path, so use it. An extension of that is, use it with vengence and determination. If you think that the product fits your needs otherwise, then you really should have some impetus to keep cracking the whip.
If you have a local Apple store, keep going back. Each time, tell them, I am back here again, spending my time, and I don't really like having to do this. Keep on top of them and make it happen. If you don't want to commit to that kind of activity, then I'm not sure you will be able to "tell Apple" that you need them to fix this sooner, rather than later.
And again, some follow ups after my last posting indicate that people have had the problem and fixed it. And clearly not everyone has the problem. So, it's not a fundamental, run a software test and see it fail, develop a fix, and send it out kind of fix.
I am sorry that people are having to deal with this. I here, willing to spend some of my time to help people who are not experienced with this stuff, go through the steps that I think can provide more information on what's actually happening at your location. I don't have a direct path to solving it for any of you, if you are unwilling to spend time looking at where the problem really is at. If you aren't willing to call Apple Care, over and over and over, or go to a store, and say, "It still is not working", then I'm afraid that you will just get what you've got now.
Some people are spending time and getting it to work. Clearly allot of people are spending time and it's still not working for them. In either case, if you keep on doing the same thing, but expect different results each time, then you don't really have a chance to find a solution. You have to try something different.
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