Ianvr

Q: What is the basic requirements to make a server work.

Is there some one to help?

 

I have been playing around with my new mac mini for a few weeks to see how it works and seems to end up with more questions than i have started with. So back to the basics.

 

Lets start with a server that is not connected to the internet and will provide all services to a intranet.

 

  1. Hardware:
    • Server (TCP/IP settings, DNS, ...)
    • switch/router
    • Clients
  2. ...

 

I think you get the idea. Something basic that someone like me (noob) can use to setup a Lion server and slowly learn and add more complicated stuff as we progress.

 

I seem to setup everything, but at the end it feels like im missing the on button for the server. It shows green buttons on everything but i only get access to Filesharing and screensharing none of the other services are working. So it may be something obvious i missed along the way, therefore this post. To make a tool that a noob like me can use to make my server work.

Posted on Jan 20, 2012 8:20 AM

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Q: What is the basic requirements to make a server work.

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  • by Ianvr,

    Ianvr Ianvr Jan 20, 2012 10:30 PM in response to Ianvr
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Jan 20, 2012 10:30 PM in response to Ianvr

    I have activated on my server's System Preferences/ Sharing some of the items, and now it seems to work. Is this the correct thing to do, or should the server software do this for me?

     

    As soon as I get more of the stuff to work I will post the layout and settings so others my use it. But it will be great to get some expert opinions so I don't miss lead anyone.

  • by Ianvr,

    Ianvr Ianvr Jan 20, 2012 11:17 PM in response to Ianvr
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Jan 20, 2012 11:17 PM in response to Ianvr

    After digging around i found this link with some scattered information http://www.apple.com/support/lionserver/

    O well i will keep posting to myself, hope its helpful to others.

  • by esagustin013,

    esagustin013 esagustin013 Jan 20, 2012 11:28 PM in response to Ianvr
    Level 1 (105 points)
    Jan 20, 2012 11:28 PM in response to Ianvr

    First off did you purchase OS X Lion Server from the App Store and are you using the Server Admin tools to confgure your services? From reading your posts it reads like you are running standard Lion and turning on personal file sharing and screen sharing.

     

    Prior to Lion Server...OS X Server software was a completely separate install. With Lion you purchase the add-on to convert any machine running Lion into Lion Server. Easy and simple...alas a little dumbed down compared to previous versions of Server software.

     

    Verify this and I will try and help you out.

  • by Ianvr,

    Ianvr Ianvr Jan 21, 2012 12:14 AM in response to esagustin013
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Jan 21, 2012 12:14 AM in response to esagustin013

    I am using Lion Server, bought the Mac Mini with it preinstalled. Then i went thru the setup according to the guide, but must have done something wrong as it did not work. It may have been how my hardware was configured.

     

    I Have the following configuration setup.

     

    Starting with a ISP supplied Thomson Gateway and obtaining a DHCP IP address thru my Wireless Connection on the server 192.168.1 network.

     

    I have selected to configure the server(mac mini) to be able to use the server.example.private configuration, in-order to have the VPN option for later.

     

    The server is further configured to use the Ethernet connection to connect to my Airport extreme to provide a local Intranet on 192.168.2. network.

  • by Ianvr,

    Ianvr Ianvr Jan 21, 2012 12:22 AM in response to Ianvr
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Jan 21, 2012 12:22 AM in response to Ianvr

    "First off did you purchase OS X Lion Server from the App Store and are you using the Server Admin tools to confgure your services?"

     

    Yes i am using Server Admin tools also.

  • by esagustin013,

    esagustin013 esagustin013 Jan 21, 2012 1:20 AM in response to Ianvr
    Level 1 (105 points)
    Jan 21, 2012 1:20 AM in response to Ianvr

    So you are running a Mac Mini configured with OS X Lion Server. Internal use only. You are running the Server app to configure your server.

     

    You want to provide what type of services to your intranet/lan clients? Are you in a mixed Windows/OS X environment? Are you wanting to do File Sharing? Address Book? iCal? Wikis? User/Group Profile management? Web Server? Email Server?

     

    Explain your scenerio and your concern a little more so I can understand better.

  • by Ianvr,

    Ianvr Ianvr Jan 21, 2012 10:58 AM in response to esagustin013
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Jan 21, 2012 10:58 AM in response to esagustin013

    You are asking all the right question. Yes, in good time i would like to setup and test all that you have listed. But it is more important to just get the server up and running in order to begin.

     

    That is to get the TCP/IP DNS and that stuff sorted correctly... then we go for the next step.

    I would really like the answer for all you have mentioned but before you confuse me lets take small steps please.

  • by MrHoffman,Helpful

    MrHoffman MrHoffman Jan 21, 2012 3:01 PM in response to Ianvr
    Level 6 (15,627 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jan 21, 2012 3:01 PM in response to Ianvr

    Assuming your network is configured within a private IP address space (preferably 10.0.0.0/8 and 172.16.0.0/12 subnets and outside 192.168.0.0/16, as specific parts within the latter will mess up VPN services) and if you don't have another DNS server within your private address space, then here is how to establish LAN DNS services on Mac OS X Server.  (There are links there to other network-related information.)

  • by Ianvr,

    Ianvr Ianvr Jan 21, 2012 8:48 PM in response to MrHoffman
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Jan 21, 2012 8:48 PM in response to MrHoffman

    MrHoffman, again you have been most helpful. I have once looked at the link above and lost it, thank you now i have it again. This is going into my bookmarks

     

    I see they (you) advise against using the server.example.private format. maybe this is part of my problem.

     

    Any advice on what will be the correct settings (bridge-mode) to configure my Airport Extreme?

    And what should the settings be in System Pref/Sharing?

     

    Feels like im going back to school on this .... wow lots of info on DNS you have. Will have to go make a pot of coffee.

    I thought i have read somewhere that setting up a Lion Server will be easy! I have made a big mistake.

    why cant they just make it work? (sorry just venting a bit)

  • by MrHoffman,Helpful

    MrHoffman MrHoffman Jan 22, 2012 6:48 AM in response to Ianvr
    Level 6 (15,627 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jan 22, 2012 6:48 AM in response to Ianvr

    The "private" stuff works, as stated in the article.  The "fun" here is for two reasons: that many sites will eventually decide to and start using their domain names more publicly (and $10 per year for a real and registered domain is cheap insurance against rebuilding the whole network with a new domain) and that that the ICANN folks have recently opened up the top-level domain (TLD) registrations to pretty much any TLD that anybody that is willing and able to pay for.  (And I haven't seen any indications that ".private" has been registered anywhere. Hopefully, it will be, but....  Another discussion from ServerFault.)

     

    As for your venting, yes, Mac OS X Server isn't a "No IT" solution.  That written, Mac OS X Server is very easy to set up, in comparison with just about every other server I've ever dealt with.  Often vastly easier.  (But at its core here, you're now working with servers, which means you're expected to have a bit more knowledge about networking and security and related.  The servers are serving what makes it easier for the clients to be clients, after all.)

     

    I do not prefer to use Apple Airport devices nor Time Capsule as network gateways for use with servers.  They make fine access points (APs), and they're good residential gateways, but they're not that capable as gateways for servers.  A server-grade gateway firewall can provide a VPN server end-point "upstream" of the NAT, among other features - and that VPN feature alone is often worth the price of admission, particularly given that VPNs and NAT are working at cross purposes.  And there are other benefits of having a good gateway firewall.

     

    With the Apple WiFi device configured as an AP (what Apple calls Bridged Mode), DHCP services and the rest of the show are provided to the clients via the server, or via some other device that's connected to the network.   When configured as an AP, the WiFi device is basically transparent to the clients; the clients operate as if they were connected via wire, and with no intervening IP routers.

  • by Ianvr,

    Ianvr Ianvr Jan 22, 2012 10:01 PM in response to MrHoffman
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Jan 22, 2012 10:01 PM in response to MrHoffman

    MrHoffman, Again you provide answers to all my questions, Thank you.

     

    I would recommend anyone with server setup to look at your references, its very informative and can be understood by all even a noob like me. "noob" not for much longer!

     

    I wonder if if i can make a suggestion? Some people like me are more graphic orientated and therefore learn faster with pictures. (my have read to many comics) Will it be feasible to provide a example diagram depicting how to allocate TCP/IP settings in a basic network outlay. i.e.

     

    Router (Public network/Internet side/ISP side)

     

    IP Address:

    Work Group:

    Router:

    DNS:

     

    Server

     

    IP Address:

    Work Group:

    Router:

    DNS:

     

    Router (Private network/Internal network/Intranet)

     

    IP Address:

    Work Group:

    Router:

    DNS:

     

    Client

     

    IP Address:

    Work Group:

    Router:

    DNS:

  • by MrHoffman,

    MrHoffman MrHoffman Jan 23, 2012 1:03 PM in response to Ianvr
    Level 6 (15,627 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jan 23, 2012 1:03 PM in response to Ianvr

    The location of your gateway firewall is key here.  That's the edge of your network, and what I use to distinguish inside or private from external or public.

     

    On your gateway device...

     

    The IP address and subnet mask on the external side of your gateway device are assigned by your ISP, either a static address assignment, or via a DHCP running at your ISP.

     

    Your gateway's router address is received from your ISP.

     

    Your gateway router might have a DHCP server pool.  If so, set this to a range of addresses in one of the private IP address blocks.  A subnet in 10.0.0.0/8, or in 172.16.0.0/12 or (less desirably) 192.168.0.0/16.

     

    Inside your network...

     

    Your internal hosts use your gateway router's internal address; your router address is your internal IP address of your gateway router.

     

    Your Mac OS X Server is assigned a static IP address from your private IP address space.  I usually use low-numbered IP addresses for static hosts, as they're shorter and easier to remember.  The DHCP server gets a pool of addresses from, say, .100 to .254, if you're using the usual /24 subnet; that /24 is a different notation for the255.255.255.0 subnet mask.

     

    Your client address is whatever you decide, static or dynamic, the router address is the internal address of your router, and the DNS server is the IP address of your Mac OS X Server; of your DNS server.

     

    Workgroups are irrelevent to IP networking.

     

    For a description of IP networking, see this IP Networking, Routers and Gateways article.

     

    I'm working on a different presentation, but that's not going to be available on your schedule.

  • by Ianvr,

    Ianvr Ianvr Jan 27, 2012 3:12 AM in response to MrHoffman
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Jan 27, 2012 3:12 AM in response to MrHoffman

    Ok Let me try and allocate IP addresses and see if i do it correct. Please help especially with DNS and Router

     

    Router (Public network/Internet side/ISP side)

     

    IP Address: 172.16.1.1

    Work Group: 255.255.255.0

    Router:172.16.1.254

    DNS:????( this is not asked in setup?)

     

    Server (Internet router side)

     

    IP Address: 172.16.1.10     (this should be a fixed address, not DHCP, if i understand correctly)

    Work Group: 255.255.255.0    

    Router:172.16.1.254

    DNS: (1st) 172.16.1.10???  (2nd) 172.16.1.254??? (not sure about this)

     

    Server (Intarnet)

     

    IP Address: 10.1.1.1     (fixed address, not DHCP, if i understand correctly)

    Work Group: 255.255.255.0    

    Router:10.1.1.254

    DNS:(1st) 10.1.1.1???      (2nd) 172.16.1.254??? (not sure about this)

     

     

    Router (Private network/Internal network/Intranet)

     

    IP Address: 10.1.1.2 (Fixed)

    Work Group: 255.255.255.0

    Router: 10.1.1.254

    DNS: (1st)10.1.1.1 (2nd) 172.16.1.254???

     

    Client

     

    IP Address: 10.1.1.100 (100-110) fixed and (111-120) DHCP

    Work Group: 255.255.255.0

    Router: 10.1.1.254

    DNS: 10.1.1.1 (2nd) 172.16.1.254???

  • by MrHoffman,

    MrHoffman MrHoffman Jan 27, 2012 7:10 AM in response to Ianvr
    Level 6 (15,627 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jan 27, 2012 7:10 AM in response to Ianvr

    I don't have the cycles right now to write up and post a class in IP networking, particularly given what I have linked to (posted) is clearly inadequate for your understanding; that I've "missed" with what I've provided.

     

    Please read the IP routing and DNS links that I've posted.  End to end.  If you have questions on those, please ask.  (That'll help you get some background, and it'll help me improve those articles.)

     

    I don't know where that 172.16.0.0/12 address is coming from here.  I know some ISPs use weird IP address blocks (AT&T UVerse was using a 10.0.0.0/8 address space), but that 172.16.0.0/12 assignment is not one I've seen.  I'll guess that's something you've thought you needed to assign?  The external IP address is provided by your ISP.  That IP address is not assigned by you.  (You might have to enter it into the device, but it's an address value that you have acquired from the ISP directly from support, via an IP networking set-up FAQ for your ISP, or via the ISP's DHCP server.)

     

    What you are calling "workgroup" is the subnet mask. What's usually called a "Workgroup" is something completely different. 

     

    You have 255.255.255.0 listed as your subnet mask; that's what is (also) known as a /24 network, using the newer IP routing notation.  That means you have IP addresses .1 through .254 available to you, without either using an IP router, or without moving to a larger subnet.

     

    Your DNS server address is the IP address of your DNS server.  If 10.1.1.1 is running your DNS, then 10.1.1.1 is your DNS server address.  (The sole exception here is the DNS server reference present on the DNS server network interface on the DNS server itself; that's 127.0.0.1; the IP itself; the IP localhost; the IP address of "me".)

     

    If you don't have a secondary DNS server, then there is no secondary DNS server listed. 

     

    If your IP router is at address 10.1.1.2, then the IP router address is 10.1.1.2 and not that 10.1.1.254. 

     

    You'll need to enter the router and DNS server addresses in static-configured hosts, and you'll need to configure the router and DNS server addresses into your DHCP server for the hosts that get their addresses from DHCP.

     

    And FWIW and without intending any insult, you can and probably should either do some reading on or watch some videos on, or attend some classes on IP networking, or you can offload this stuff and acquire more formal help.  When these networking configurations go wrong - and they do, I just ended up troubleshooting an error on one of my own networks after a power restoration this morning - you'll either get to troubleshoot the networking error yourself, or you'll want to call in help.  Having some background will help you troubleshoot this stuff, if that's your choice here.

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