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Does Lion solves the window switching order?

2261 Views 49 Replies Latest reply: Jun 30, 2012 8:16 PM by Barney-15E RSS
  • bluepaua Level 2 Level 2 (170 points)
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    Jan 21, 2012 2:55 AM (in response to applxperience)

    There seems to be 2 options given the current state of play:

    • use the keyboard and not the mouse to navigate through the stack of windows
    • use tabs for those applications (e.g. Chrome) that support tabs

     

    I can see the reason why you want the behaviour you have described, but it may be just as confusing and irritating to those who have accustomed to using the keyboard shortcuts (cmd-tab or cmd-`) to quickly flip back to the previous top level window.

  • bluepaua Level 2 Level 2 (170 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 21, 2012 3:39 AM (in response to applxperience)

    How is using Cmd-shift-[ and Cmd-shift-] to cycle though the tabs different from using cmd-tab or cmd-` to cycle through windows?

  • thomas_r. Level 7 Level 7 (26,920 points)
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    Jan 21, 2012 5:10 AM (in response to applxperience)

    You keep reminding us ho long you've been using Macs like that makes any difference.  It is irrelevant.  If it weren't, then I win, since I've been using them since the 128K, so I'd drop that if I were you.

     

    I frequently use well more than 2-3 windows, and still your ideas make no sense to me.  But as I've said, my opinion makes no difference.  Tell Apple, using the link I gave you earlier, and then let's please end this ridiculous discussion.

  • Barney-15E Level 7 Level 7 (33,240 points)
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    Jan 21, 2012 7:08 AM (in response to applxperience)

    Ok, I think I've finally figured out what you want, and it doesn't make any sense.

     

    The system was changed quite a while back to switch windows and apps based on last used.

    This was to make it quicker to get back to the last one used. The theory being that the normal behavior is to compare two documents/windows. If in your mind they should keep the order, then with 10 windows open, you'd have to type the command at least five times to swap between the two windows you are working on.

     

    Given that, I doubt that any suggestion you make to Apple will be implemented as it was de-implemented. It makes more sense to allow toggling back and forth between the two "currently" primary windows than the other option.

     

    I looked through Secrets to see if I could find a command to change the behavior, but couldn't find one.

  • thomas_r. Level 7 Level 7 (26,920 points)
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    Jan 22, 2012 4:06 AM (in response to applxperience)
      • haven't you worked on documents secuentially?
      • Why do you keep many windows open then?

     

    I don't think that I have ever, in all my 28 years of using a windowed operating system, worked on more than 2 documents sequentially in the manner that you describe.  I simply cannot imagine the circumstance that would make that necessary.  I have needed to make a few changes sequentially to documents (usually image files), but that simply involved opening them, making the changes to each and then closing it.

     

    So why do I keep many windows open?  Because web development involves many different things.  For example, I will be working on a .php file, and will have several other .php files open for reference to the functions or other code contained in them.  I will also usually have a browser window open with some PHP documentation.  I also may have a .css file or two open.  I also may have some MySQL documentation and phpMyAdmin open in a couple other tabs in my browser.  I arrange everything on the screen so that I can see the ones I'm using most frequently together, and usually use either Exposé or a simple click (if I can see the window) to quickly switch between windows.

     

    If I need to switch back and forth frequently between two windows that fill the screen, then I will use command-` or command-tab (depending on context).  In that circumstance, I have only ever needed to switch between two windows, and I absolutely, 100% expect command-` to give me the next window in the stack, not whatever the next window in the stack was ten minutes ago before I moved things around.

     

    In my experience with user support, what I do is far more sophisticated than the average user, but on the same lines as what they do.  They may have several spreadsheets open for reference with QuickBooks while doing billing.  They may have a calendar app and a web browser and a customer database while doing scheduling.  I've never seen any end-user need to repeatedly cycle through a virtual "stack" of documents as you describe, touching each one in turn and then cycling back to the beginning to start over.  Honestly, if you need to repeatedly cycle through 5 documents sequentially, you're doing something that would be better done by a machine.  Figure out how to automate that task.

     

    Currently the history is REPEATING the same doc. So if you history is 1,2,3,2,1,2,3,2,1,2,1,2,4,5, you'd need 14 keystrokes to get doc 5! And you only have 5 docs! Do you think that's right?

     

    That is not how it works.  (Of course, you keep bringing Chrome tabs into this, which has nothing whatsoever to do with window-cycling behavior on the Mac.  Perhaps Chrome does tabs like that, but I don't know, and I'm not addressing that.)

     

    Command-` cycles through the open windows IN ORDER.  There is no history.  If you have 5 open windows, you will need to press command-` precisely four times to reach the one in the back.  If you stop and do something with one of the windows, then the next time you use command-`, you must deal with the current order, not with whatever order the windows had at some unknown time in the past.  That is the way it should work, IMHO.

  • Barney-15E Level 7 Level 7 (33,240 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 22, 2012 6:26 AM (in response to applxperience)

     

    Barney:

    What you said makes no sense. First of all, your example in which you think you'd need 5 keystrokes to get some doc, is already happening! Currently the history is REPEATING the same doc. So if you history is 1,2,3,2,1,2,3,2,1,2,1,2,4,5, you'd need 14 keystrokes to get doc 5! And you only have 5 docs! Do you think that's right?

    Now, if the behavior was as I say, and the "only" purpose of the weird current behavior is "to help to switch the last 2 documents you worked with", as you said, then:

     

    It doesn't keep a "history" except the last window used becomes the second window in the z-order. If there are 5 documents and you start with z-order 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, with window 1 selected, then click on 3, the new order becomes 3, 1, 5, 4, 2. There is not repeating of any window in the order. If you then click on another window, that will become frontmost, the last one you were on before the click becomes the second, and the others are ordered by history of use. There are never more steps than there are documents. They're just ordered by usage. There aren't any duplicates.

     

    If you've got an app that is doing something other than that, please let us know what that is so we can test it.

  • Barney-15E Level 7 Level 7 (33,240 points)
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    Jan 22, 2012 6:51 AM (in response to Barney-15E)

    After some more testing, I did find something that may be causing the confusion you see.

    If you switch to another app, then back to the one you had multiple windows on, the z-order gets reset based on the two most recent windows. So, while you had already set a z-order based on previous usage, leaving the app and returning will reset that order based on your last two used windows.

  • thomas_r. Level 7 Level 7 (26,920 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 23, 2012 7:59 AM (in response to applxperience)

    I'm totally talking about DOCUMENT WINDOWS. NOT tabs.

     

    Yes, we know.  We get it.  It seems that you're not getting what WE are saying, though.

     

    Now, please before to write again and getting in the middle of someone who could actually want to test it, please stop writing. thanks. You are making me to write too much and visitors get scared when too many words say answer nothing.

     

    As more than one people on this thread have said, we HAVE tested what you described, and we don't see the same things or we don't see it as an error when we do see the same thing.  However, I have given up on trying to get through to you, so I will grant your wish and stop responding here.  This discussion was pointless from the start, so I don't know exactly why I've continued responding as long as I have.

  • Barney-15E Level 7 Level 7 (33,240 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 23, 2012 5:58 PM (in response to applxperience)

    Well, if you don't click and just cmd-`, then the order never changes, unless you change apps, then the order changes based on last two windows. Ignore the word "click" and substitute in "any method that would switch to a document window that is not the next or previous document."

     

    Now, I don't use Chrome, so maybe that is the problem. Perhaps it uses some odd doc switching behavior.

    Safari and TextEdit works as I describe.

     

    I have no idea what your point was with the SEO paragraph.

     

    Asside from posting on Apple's feedback page, how you want it to work is completely irrelevant. It doesn't work that way. We have tried to explain how it is supposed to work; if you are not seeing that behavior, I have no idea what is wrong. If it is Chrome, try the similar behavior in Safari and see what it looks like.

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