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Why does iPhoto quit whenever I close the window?

1028 Views 17 Replies Latest reply: Aug 21, 2012 1:40 PM by JoeCob RSS
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dsvphd Calculating status...
Currently Being Moderated
Feb 19, 2012 3:30 PM

Whenever I close the window, the app quits. It didn't do this in S Leopard, but does in Lion, automatically. Is there a way to prevent this?

Mac OS X (10.7.3)
  • Terence Devlin Level 10 Level 10 (121,660 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 19, 2012 3:37 PM (in response to dsvphd)

    It has nothing to do with Snow Leopard or any OS. iPhoto quits when you close the window by design.

     

    The theory is simple: You can't do anything in iPhoto without a window, so it quites. Same with Aperture, iMovie, SystemPreferences and a few others.

     

    Other apps, where you can do something without a window, don't quit when you close the last window. Expamples of that include Web Browers, Word Processors etc, where command-n will create a new window or a new document, or command-o will open an existing one.

     

    So, no there is no way to prevent iPhoto quitting when you close the window. Try hiding it instead.

     

    Regards

     

     

    TD

  • JoeCob Calculating status...

    Sorry, replying on a old thread, but I have the same question as the original poster, and I dont quite agree with the response.

     

    1st - iPhoto can do things when window is closed, it can share photos or do background tasks (like looking for faces).

     

    2nd - Other Apple and non-Apple software leave its process running, even when you close the last window. Softwares I tried for this were Office, Pages and Numbers.

     

    3nd - One of the points of not shuting down the process completly is for it to reopen faster, and iPhoto can be pretty heavy at startup. Granted, it also can make it bigger, and shuting it down would save on resources.

     

    My main problem is that if I click on close by mistake, I cant share the library. And since iPhoto is horrible in a multiuser environment (ie: cant share libraries, cant work fully automated with referenced libraries and etc), having it running is necessary for other computers in the house to be able to see the photos.

     

    Still fighting with iPhoto on a multi-user environment.

  • Terence Devlin Level 10 Level 10 (121,660 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 21, 2012 7:18 AM (in response to JoeCob)

    1st - iPhoto can do things when window is closed, it can share photos or do background tasks (like looking for faces).

     

    Well no, it can't do either of those things with the window closed.

     

    2nd - Other Apple and non-Apple software leave its process running, even when you close the last window. Softwares I tried for this were Office, Pages and Numbers.

     

    Didn't read my answer above then? I refer you to the third paragraph.

     

    FWIW iPhoto can share Libraries, not sure what "fully automated with referenced libraries" means and etc

     

    Why fight with iPhoto if it doesn't have the capability you want? Seems the sensible thing would be to use an app that does?

  • JoeCob Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Terence Devlin wrote:

     

     

    1st - iPhoto can do things when window is closed, it can share photos or do background tasks (like looking for faces).

     

     

    Well no, it can't do either of those things with the window closed.

     

     

     

    Right, bad wording. It cant do now, what I really meant is that it could do those things since they dont really need for intraction or any window being opened. Even with the Window closed, it could for example keep sharing running. It just dont.

     

    But you are right, it doesnt do it now.

     

     

     

     

     

    Terence Devlin wrote:

     

    Didn't read my answer above then? I refer you to the third paragraph.

     

    FWIW iPhoto can share Libraries, not sure what "fully automated with referenced libraries" means and etc

     

    Why fight with iPhoto if it doesn't have the capability you want? Seems the sensible thing would be to use an app that does?

     

    Yep, you made the same point about other apps being kept around, but I fail to see the distinction from iPhoto since I could also use keywords to import photos, create new events or even for the reasons I mentioned above for the first point. So I still dont understand why those apps are kept running, while iPhoto is not.

     

     

    As for sharing, maybe I'am missing something. My understandig is:

    - I cant put a library at a shared location (like a network folder) and let other machines acess the library. I would need to keep some kind of control so nobody access it at the same time, otherwise it would potentially get corrupted.

     

    - Reference libraries would work for keeping a folder structure at a shared folder, and libraries pointed to there. But as soon as you import a new photo, it is not kept at the original folder location, its copied internally to the local library and as a result not avilable to the other users. So after a few imports, you have a half-referenced, half-internal library.  One could argue to always import to the folder struture, but iPhoto doesnt rescan the external location after the initial import, adding some extra steps to keep the libraries updated and recreating events, faces and etc in every computer.

     

    - Photo sharing (trough iPhoto) doesnt share events and only works if iPhoto is running. So if you close the window, nobody else can access the photos. One would need to be constantly creating albuns so photos would be available to all users at a place. Too easy for someone try to reach a foto and it either doesnt have iPhoto running, or doesnt have the album.

     

     

    As far as I tested, Aperture has the same limitations. On WIndows we used to have Live Photo Gallery pointed to a network location. Photos would be centralized and each user could access the content trough their libraries.

     

    I do see more advantages on having one centralized library (not need to redefine events, albuns, faces and etc), but as long as importing into it is transparent, and access it is not limited like it is today.

     

    If you have a better photo tool than iPhoto, I would really appreciate the suggestion. But as far as I searched, this sharing situation is a problem since the first iPhoto, and either I'am missing something (some other way to handle photos shared among multiple macs in a house) or is past the point where Apple should have done something about it.

     

    Thanks a lot for your replies, really not looking into criticizing anything for free. I'am new to the Mac (~ 6 months) and really trying to understand how people handle this in the platform. Is one of the few things I found easier and more intuitive on Windows than on the Mac, but maybe its just a mindeset problem.

  • Terence Devlin Level 10 Level 10 (121,660 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 21, 2012 7:59 AM (in response to JoeCob)

    Sorry, no but you can't add keywords or import without a window, nor frankly can I think of anyway that you could add keywords without seeing the image you're adding to tags to. So I have no idea what you are referring to there.

     

     

    - I cant put a library at a shared location (like a network folder) and let other machines acess the library.

     

    You can.

     

    I would need to keep some kind of control so nobody access it at the same time, otherwise it would potentially get corrupted

     

    No. iPhoto will simply tell the second person that the Library is in use.

     

    You haven't grasped Referenced Libraries. If you want to simply share the master files, then make your folder tree whereever you want and just don't use iPhoto. If you want to use iPhoto in Referenced Mode then you are saying that "I want to do the file management" so if you do, do the file management. Move the photos to your filing structure and then add them to iPhoto. iPhoto is really clear. It won’t do anything with files it doesn’t manage, so if you don't let it manage them there's no confusion.

     

    As for iPhoto Sharing: Making an Album of an Event takes - oh, 1 second and uses no extra disk space and has better fine control over the organisation of the photos. If you're worried that you might accidentally quit the app how about something like this:

     

    Create a new Account on your Mac, call it Media. Create an iPhoto Library there. (BTW: This will work for iTunes too.)

     

    Enable Sharing on the Library:(Preferences -> Sharing), leave iPhoto running and use Fast User Switching to open the other account(s). In those accounts, enable 'Look For Shared Libraries'. The Library will appear in the other source pane.

     

    This means that all users will be able to see the pics. If you want to use a pic then simply drag it from the shared Library to your own in the iPhoto Window. This means that each user can have their own edits.

     

    If you want to add photos to the Library: Log into the Media account for that purpose.

     

    To make it all seamless: Set your Mac to log into the Media Account automatically. Set iPhoto to launch on log-in. Then switch to your own account using Fast User Switching.

     

    Net result: a Library that's permanently available to all users but also protected. Each user can have their own versions of the pics if they want.

     

    There are media server apps out there. Search on MacUpdate

  • JoeCob Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Terence Devlin wrote:

     

    Sorry, no but you can't add keywords or import without a window, nor frankly can I think of anyway that you could add keywords without seeing the image you're adding to tags to. So I have no idea what you are referring to there.

     

     

    Ok, but than again is the same problem with the Word processor, isnt it? You cant really do anything without a Window. The moment you ask for a new document, a new window will be opened. So if I do a keystroke for import a picture, it could open the iPhoto window the same way it opens on the word document. I still fail to see the reasoning behind having it for the word processor and the photo, even more when photo app needs to be running for sharing its content, where the word processor (or any other app) doesnt even have this requirement.

     

    So in a sense, at least for my usage, makes more sense to have iPhoto running than Pages for example.

     

     

     

    No. iPhoto will simply tell the second person that the Library is in use.

     

     

    Ok, that could be an option. At least prevent it from corrupting the files. Thanks for the info.

     

     

    You haven't grasped Referenced Libraries. If you want to simply share the master files, then make your folder tree whereever you want and just don't use iPhoto. If you want to use iPhoto in Referenced Mode then you are saying that "I want to do the file management" so if you do, do the file management. Move the photos to your filing structure and then add them to iPhoto. iPhoto is really clear. It won’t do anything with files it doesn’t manage, so if you don't let it manage them there's no confusion.

     

    I dont think it made it clear. I did understand that much from the referenced concept, but I cant understand why if under a referenced library with a concept of "I'am doing my own file management" a camera import puts the photo in the library like the library was managed, ignoring the fact it is a referenced library.

     

    Also, if it knows I'am managing the files, it could scan the location at startup like some other solutions. Granted, I could potentially use Automator for this, but thats far from a intuitive or end-user driven task.

     

    I could turn some of this things around with Automator, but I dont believe an average user (the one iPhoto is targeted for) should rely on Automator for such tasks.

     

     

    As for iPhoto Sharing: Making an Album of an Event takes - oh, 1 second and uses no extra disk space and has better fine control over the organisation of the photos. If you're worried that you might accidentally quit the app how about something like this:

     

     

    You know, the fact that I have to do that manually really annoys me. And it makes no sense at all. Why share everything, but events. Why do I need to create a Album just for sharing? My entire library is organized in events. So I need to have duplicate it in Albuns just because the software doesnt share events? Ok, I'll doit, np, but the software would be better if it presented me the events as well. More than once I had to go over my machine beacause my wife wanted a photo and either iPhoto wasnt running or the photo was not in a Album.

     

     

    f you're worried that you might accidentally quit the app how about something like this:

     

    ...

    There are media server apps out there. Search on MacUpdate

     

    But why should I have all this trouble? Woudnt keep  iPhoto running without the risk of me closing it be a lot simpler? Like iTunes does? It would consume less resources than having another user session opened and be less cumbersome.

     

    So what I'am getting is, it could be done (thanks for the tips), but is so more counter intuintive than just putting the files in a library and sharing. Has a lot of roadblocks and manual/counter intuitive ways to share the photos in the house and I need to keep constantly worried where its importing, if its running, or if I created a Album (that I dont need) or not.

     

    Thanks for all the info,  really usefull. I'll see what would fit us best, but I still believe its an area where iPhoto is lagging, and apparently Apple is not in a hurry (or just doesnt believe it needs) to do a lot better.

  • Terence Devlin Level 10 Level 10 (121,660 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 21, 2012 9:02 AM (in response to JoeCob)

    Ok, but than again is the same problem with the Word processor, isnt it? You cant really do anything without a Window. The moment you ask for a new document, a new window will be opened.

     

    No. You can create a new document with no windows in the Word Processor. What new document would you be creating with iPhoto? Creating a new document is a key part of Word Processing. There is no way to create a new document in iPhoto without exporting - and for that you will need a window. Importing is not the same process - even remotely - as creating a document. Sorry but your analogies don't hold. Even later, when you mention iTunes - see above. You can play music in iTunes without a window so it doesn't quit.

     

    But all this is entirely moot. It quits when you close the window.

     

    iPhoto menu -> Provide iPhoto Feedback for feature requests.

     

    but I cant understand why if under a referenced library with a concept of "I'am doing my own file management" a camera import puts the photo in the library like the library was managed, ignoring the fact it is a referenced library.

     

    It doesn't do that actually. Look again at the iPhoto Preferences in the Advanced pane. see the wording:

     

    Importing: Copy Items to the iPhoto Library

     

    You uncheck that box and it won't copy anything to the Library. It'll simply refer to it on the Camera Card. See? The wording is plain. If you want to manage the files do so. Uncheck that box. But getting the files from the camera to the storage is file management. So do that and then - and only then - import to the Library.

     

    It could do lots of things on start up, and more on quit. But it doesn't. That's how it works. And, again, if you don't like how it works, then the obvious thing is... use another app, one that works as you want it to.

     

    The reason why you would go to all that trouble (it would take maybe 10 minutes...) is because you can't rely on yourself not to close the window.

     

    Remember, it's a $15 app. Aperture is $80 or so, Lightroom is $150 or thereabouts (recently halved...) Those apps have more options and more capabilities. Pay more, get more. iPhoto is principally aimed at the guy with a point and shoot who takes family snaps. It's not designed for sharing photos across the house. So trying to get it to do that will always be working against its grain.

  • JoeCob Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Terence Devlin wrote:

     

    No. You can create a new document with no windows in the Word Processor. What new document would you be creating with iPhoto? Creating a new document is a key part of Word Processing. There is no way to create a new document in iPhoto without exporting - and for that you will need a window. Importing is not the same process - even remotely - as creating a document. Sorry but your analogies don't hold. Even later, when you mention iTunes - see above. You can play music in iTunes without a window so it doesn't quit.

     

    But all this is entirely moot. It quits when you close the window.

     

    iPhoto menu -> Provide iPhoto Feedback for feature requests.

     

     

    While in Pages you have new document, on iPhoto could be import, could be New Album, could be New Event. All of those could bring the window back as well. I dont see how is that different from being able to use a keyword for open a document and importing being that different.

     

    Also, while on iTunes you could be playing music, with iPhoto I could be sharing photos. Both have uses for being minimized instead of being completly shutdown. iTunes doesnt quit when I'am not playing music. It stays there and allow me to share the media, and thats good. I just believe iPhoto has the same need, being idle, but running for sharing. Why would I need to create a new account, fast user switch and leave it running? If theres a need for it, software should do it, not relly on workarounds way more complex than it should.

     

    And BTW, I alredy added this as a feedback to iPhoto, but Apple feedback page is really bad. Theres no way to attach documents, screenshots and etc. Little bit off topic, but I see a lot of people poiting to that feedback page and its really bad.

     

     

     

     

     

    but I cant understand why if under a referenced library with a concept of "I'am doing my own file management" a camera import puts the photo in the library like the library was managed, ignoring the fact it is a referenced library.

     

    It doesn't do that actually. Look again at the iPhoto Preferences in the Advanced pane. see the wording:

     

    Importing: Copy Items to the iPhoto Library

     

    You uncheck that box and it won't copy anything to the Library. It'll simply refer to it on the Camera Card. See? The wording is plain. If you want to manage the files do so. Uncheck that box. But getting the files from the camera to the storage is file management. So do that and then - and only then - import to the Library.

     

     

    Sorry, thats not how it works. Referenced libraries would  always have that option unchecked. Thats how you make a library referenced in the first place, right?

     

    After that, even having that un-selected, if you connect a camera (or a card) and choose import from iPhoto (default behaviour, pops as soon as you put the card), it is going to copy the photos to the library. It disregard the fact the library is referenced and that option is unchecked.  I did quick test for you:

     

    iPhoto Referenced Library Before Import - 38 MB (new with a few photos from a shared folder). Only metadata and some thumbnails.

     

    iPhoto Referenced Librarry Post-Import - 1GB. Lots of CR2 files inside the Library stored as masters. It even asks me if I want to delete the photos from the Card, what would make no sense (or be very risky) if the files were not copied.

     

    That happened with the option unchecked.

     

     

     

    It could do lots of things on start up, and more on quit. But it doesn't. That's how it works. And, again, if you don't like how it works, then the obvious thing is... use another app, one that works as you want it to.

     

    The reason why you would go to all that trouble (it would take maybe 10 minutes...) is because you can't rely on yourself not to close the window.

     

    Remember, it's a $15 app. Aperture is $80 or so, Lightroom is $150 or thereabouts (recently halved...) Those apps have more options and more capabilities. Pay more, get more. iPhoto is principally aimed at the guy with a point and shoot who takes family snaps. It's not designed for sharing photos across the house. So trying to get it to do that will always be working against its grain.

     

    I understand its a $15 (to free) software, it just looks half baked. You can have referenced, but import doesnt stick and it doesnt refresh from the referenced place. You can share, but not everything. You can share, but needs the software to be open but it doesnt stay opened like iTunes (it doesnt matter to me if its done to play music or not, the sharing use case is more than enough for the bahaviou).

     

    I tried Aperture, it has the same flaws (need to recheck the auto-close tough), maybe light room is the answer. But even if it was, makes little sense to pay US$ 99-150 if the use will be just the "keep open" feature. But I'll look into that anyway. And I believe having multiple iPhoto users would be more common than multiple Aperture users (from a home user perspective). Altought maybe Apples licensing makes this point moot, since the App could be in most (all?) computers in the house.

     

    Maybe the use cases Apple uses are different. I have the concept of sharing everything. Apple could start from the principle that users dont want to share everything (might make a lot a sense on a house with teenagers, I dont know), but just share some parts of the library and only when you are watching.

     

    Message was edited by: JoeCob - Missed a word in the last sentence.

  • LarryHN Level 9 Level 9 (54,870 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 21, 2012 9:50 AM (in response to JoeCob)

    Bottom line. This is the way it works and this forum is only users who can help use use it. No one here can change it and how you want it to be is frankly of no interest since we can not change anything.

     

    Contact Apple with your request. IPhoto menu ==> provide iPhoto feedback

     

    LN

  • JoeCob Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 21, 2012 10:02 AM (in response to LarryHN)

    Not sure you read all the thread, but we  were discussion on how to achieve the funcionality.

     

    - Terence showed quite some examples on how to do it not trough the sofware.

     

    - I agreed it could be done, it was just not easy nor intuitive.

     

    - I also showed that the behaviour of import is different of what to expect.

     

    - And Terence also showed the feedback option before you, to what I mentioned I already opened the feedback.

     

    As you pointed out, this is a forum where we could exchange idea and help on how to use it. Thats what we've being doing, so not sure what the point of your reply. It is clear this is how it works (altough we dont quite agree if thats a good or bad design), we are discussing other options (like the referenced library, the keep it running on another account and etc).

  • Terence Devlin Level 10 Level 10 (121,660 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 21, 2012 10:56 AM (in response to JoeCob)

    I simply don't know how I can explain to you that creating a new document in a word processor is not as complex an operation as importing something like a photo into a database - parsing the metadata, cataloging and so on. As I said, it's moot. You don't want iPhoto to quit when the window is closed. So, file a feature request.

     

     

    And sorry, but

     

     

    If theres a need for it, software should do it, not relly on workarounds way more complex than it should.

     

    is a nice idea but software doesn't work like that. For a start - who defines the need? For instance, I don't see that need.  As you see the need, add your feature request. If they agree they'll add it.

     

     

    For feedback on Apple's Feedback... http://www.apple.com/feedback/ sorry, couldn’t resist.

     

     

    if you connect a camera (or a card) and choose import from iPhoto (default behaviour, pops as soon as you put the card),

     

    1. Change the default behaviour. It's a setting in the iPhoto Preferences, or the Image Capture Preferences or in the Preferences of whatever app you might choose. Then iPhoto won't pop up, instead your chosen app will. Using iPhoto to move the files from the camera if it's not managing the files makes no sense.

     

     

    2. As to the app copying files with the option unchecked: I can't check this right now, but I believe it's a recent change. It protects your data. Think about it. If it didn't then you risk losing your data if you erase the card after import. We've seen lots of reports on here over the years from folks who've run referenced libraries and forgot to move the files from the card to their filing system first.

     

    So, the workflow for a Referenced Library would be

     

    Change the settings for whatever happens when you connect a camera - do nothing or use Image Capture (or whatever app you want)

     

    Move the files from the camera to your storage

     

    Import to iPhoto.

     

    As for half-baked: It's a $15 app. For that you get a lot but not everything. Used as intended it works very well. But I think you're underestimating the complexity of live sharing - for instance LR (it quits when the window closes btw, as does Aperture) has no ability to share the Library whatever.

  • JoeCob Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Import from a keystroke would just popup a window, like new document from Pages will just popup a window. I understand the process after that is different, but from a workflow perspective, they start very similar. Both start with a windows/dialogs being shown.

     

    is a nice idea but software doesn't work like that. For a start - who defines the need? For instance, I don't see that need.  As you see the need, add your feature request. If they agree they'll add it.

     

     

    By need, I mean the need to keep it running. If the software needs to be running to share, it should allow, like iTunes does, not to close and keep running.

     

    For me the use case is the same since, as I said before. iTunes doesnt quit when I'am not playing music. It stays there because it can be usefull like that (syncing, downloading, sharing or even starting to play if I click the play on my keyboard). Sharing would be the same for iPhoto, just lying around. Thats why I think the use case is the same (from a keep open while sharing perspective). Close it if sharing is disabled, but keep it open if sharing is enabled for example.

     

    But, anyway, as I said, I already added the feedback.

     

    As for feedback on the feedback, theres no such thing. I looked for it.

     

     

     

     

    1. Change the default behaviour. It's a setting in the iPhoto Preferences, or the Image Capture Preferences or in the Preferences of whatever app you might choose. Then iPhoto won't pop up, instead your chosen app will. Using iPhoto to move the files from the camera if it's not managing the files makes no sense.

     

     

    2. As to the app copying files with the option unchecked: I can't check this right now, but I believe it's a recent change. It protects your data. Think about it. If it didn't then you risk losing your data if you erase the card after import. We've seen lots of reports on here over the years from folks who've run referenced libraries and forgot to move the files from the card to their filing system first.

     

     

    I dont know what makes less sense: To have it to import or iPhoto importing but completly disregarding the option and making no warning about it. If it makes no sense for iPhoto to import into a referenced library, it should not allow it. Period.

     

    But if it allows you to import, it should not do it disregarding the entire logic behind the library its using. Honeslty, importing into managed is counter intuitive and have no logic. I would not expect it to import a reference from the memory card, but also would not expect it to disregard the concept of the library it is using.  It could either import into a default location or into the pictures folder, or not import at all.

     

    Btw, thats also in the feedback I sent.

     

     

     

    So, the workflow for a Referenced Library would be

     

    Change the settings for whatever happens when you connect a camera - do nothing or use Image Capture (or whatever app you want)

     

    Move the files from the camera to your storage

     

    Import to iPhoto.

     

     

    Yep, thats what I'am getting to. Still see some holes that could happen, so it will demand a few Automator  workflows to make things work on the other machines, since I'll have to do the import in all machines. And I cant just import the main folder, I need to do it as they come to the shared place. Automator is not launching folder action on remote folders (I think thats expected), so, not as easy as it seems. As I mentioned, doable, but too many workarounds for a common thing to do (sharing pictures in the home).

     

     

     

    As for half-baked: It's a $15 app. For that you get a lot but not everything. Used as intended it works very well. But I think you're underestimating the complexity of live sharing - for instance LR (it quits when the window closes btw, as does Aperture) has no ability to share the Library whatever.

     

    Not sure I agree. The price is a good reason for having less features, but not having half implemented ones. Anyway, I would pay more for that, but even the more expensive doesnt do it as you pointed out.

     

    So, theres no easy way. It either needs a pice of software to be running all the time (and it wont help you to leave it running) with Albums always being created, or constant house cleaning on referenced libraries where the software doesnt keep track if photos are being added to the shared folder. And making sure its not importing to a different place and leaving pictures spread across all the computers in the house.

     

    So, its difficult and counter intuitive for me in so many different ways (I understand you dont agree and have different needs, thats fine). I hope it was easyer, you know "just works" and "magical". And yes, I added all that to the feedback (except for the magical piece).

     

     

    Thanks again for the tips.

     

    PS: I hope Apple looks every now and them for this discussions. Having both points of view its important when defining requirements.

  • LarryHN Level 9 Level 9 (54,870 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 21, 2012 11:58 AM (in response to JoeCob)

    Apple does not use this. As previously noted

     

    Bottom line. This is the way it works and this forum is only users who can help use use it. No one here can change it and how you want it to be is frankly of no interest since we can not change anything.

     

    Contact Apple with your request. IPhoto menu ==> provide iPhoto feedback

     

    Clearly you love to argue and are incapable of accepting the fact that this is not the place to design or redesign Apple products. It is strictly a user to user support fourm. Nothing more

     

    LN

  • JoeCob Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 21, 2012 12:07 PM (in response to LarryHN)

    Isnt this a place to "discuss" about products? Sorry, the site name mislead me.

     

    I belived it was ok for discussing about the software, finding a better way to use it and learning about it. And I think both sides learned a little bit from the discussion.

     

    Btw, I alredy added the feedback, as I pointed out in my last two posts, in case you missed.

     

    Thanks anyway for trying to help.

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