@lvmedic3214 old dogs can learn new tricks. Our point is those "new" tricks are not efficient from a human factors perspective.
It is those who are fixated on arguing cursor keys are not needed who unable to change. Don't be a lemming. Steve Jobs was brilliant, but he was human too, and not all of his ideas were gems.
If Apple eventually wakes up and takes the stick out by adding cursor keys to IOS, the problem with a previous lack of cursor keys will soon be apparent to all. :)
I seriously doubt that Apple would tie a change like this to hardware. Either it will roll it out in an iOS update or it will not. I would expect the entire iOS supported product line to receive it upon upgrade.
I miss the reports of Steve Jobs randomly texting people who ask him things like this. For example, he wrote one guy "no" for an answer who asked him if an option could be allowed in settings to allow the hardware switch be used as a screen lock - and then did it anyway! I can't see Tim Cook riding cowboy like that.
If you use the iWork apps (Pages, Numbers, Keynote), this might help.
"Swipe to move the insertion point through text"
In those apps you can single finger swipe to move the insertion cursor one character at a time, two fingers moves it a word at at time, three fingers moves to the beginning or end of the line. I find gentle swipes work best.
Alas, I tested in Notes and it didn't work, but if you use iWork apps, give it a try.
Yup, the original Mac 128k and 512k models had no arrow keys, you had to buy the optional numeric keypad to get them. They were finally added with the Mac Plus in 1986, 2 years after the original Mac launch. And it was done, as I understand it, not so much to force users into acclimating to a mouse, as it was to make sure developers coded for complete mouse navigation, which would not be enforceable if there were cursor keys available. (This especially makes sense when you realize that, back then, many buyers had no previous experience with computers at all!) Jobs did not want quick ports of existing apps, he wanted to make sure everything was geared toward the Mac interface.
There are definitely times a cursor key on an iPad would be a quick convenience. Though what bothers me more is that there's no top row of numbers. I understood why they would do that on an iPhone where space is at a premium, but it makes no sense on an iPad. And with so many sites requiring passords that use a combination of letters and numbers, all the switching back and forth is especially tiresome.
Arrow keys included, there are keys that I just don't see how you navigate around without.
I have been a Mac OS user my whole life. Maybe I am becoming an "old dog" and perhaps I have plateaud with my mouse and keyboard as perfectly efficient input devices, but I almost despise the iPad experience. Maybe because I use an Android smartphone, maybe because I use common sense, but there's something highly UN-intuitive about all touch, and one **** button. Maybe I don't get the whole idea of a limited device that isn't meant to be used in the way I feel I should be able to be. Maybe I just don't get the iOS and Lion melding together thing. Maybe I don't understand why you can't just download any number of free alternate keyboards to use, or for that matter, just be able to customize your keyboard to what ever the heck keys you feel like having!? You are the user, no? You are who says what you need or want on your device, no?
Here's one of my major quirks/questions using an iPad....what if I just want to go "back?" Not in a text line per se, but just BACK to what I was just doing prior?
Example: My kid is playing a game (app) and hits an advertisement unintentionally (he's 2). Safari opens the page for the ad's product....and there I am....in a browser...not where I want to be. I now just want to "go back". Back to what I was just doing previously. Now, if I were on my phone, all I'd need to do is hit the "back" button and viola! I'd be right back at my game, and move on. But in iOS, I guess I have to hit the ONE BUTTON available, go "home", then find the game app I was playing amongst a thousand icons on multiple screens, re-open the app, and maybe then I'll be where I was.
Really?! How is that better or intuitive?
Or better yet, how do I just Quit something!? Always with this hidden double-click home, get a row of active apps, HOLD one until they jiggle, then one by one hit the little red X......seriously? wow.
Arrow keys and command keys missing completly removes any "hot key" use, and I simply dont understand how to work like that. No cmd-c, cmd-v, cmd-q? No up arrow or down arrow to go to the beginning or end of a text line? I can't control my VNC sessioned computer much at all, or my mini running a media server without having arrow keys (in liu of an apple remote), can I?
I can't deal with it, so I'll just go all the way to my computer downstairs and do it the "old fashioned" way I guess, much faster.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 26, 2012 10:11 PM (in response to Brian Conner4)
If you want to go back to the app that you were using then just double-click the home button to open the taskbar and tap on the app on there - you don't have to go back to the homescreen.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 26, 2012 10:18 PM (in response to King_Penguin)
Ok thanks King, I'll try that.
I'll be the first to admit, I turn my back immediatly without searching for the answer when it comes to iPad/phone...I have no idea why as it is the single solitary thing I do that with. Must be spite...I am not a fan of the iOS interface or experience.
It is very true that I worship the aura of Steve Jobs more than any self respecting person should. That being said, it is very clear from chapters 13, 16 and 23 of Walter Isaacson's biography that Jobs does not care if users want arrow keys, and that Apple will only implement them because he is dead (if it ever does). And the MacBook Air is a far better productivity tool than the iPad, but it costs twice as much and is not nearly as simple. Thanks for the "hold for magnifying glass" tip which mostly solves the problem for me. Programming developments, or skill enhancements by myself, should take care of the rest.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 27, 2012 8:08 AM (in response to Brian Conner4)
I am very happy having downloaded the app Heart Writer. It has left/right cursor keys and a bunch of other very useful (and cleverly implemented) keyboard enhancements. You can use that app to write, and then copy and paste the completed text into the email you want to send, the web page you are commenting on, whatever.
Another app that may be useful is OnLive Desktop. You can't directly copy and paste out of it, but you can generate docs with its own full keyboard (with 4-direction cursor keys), and then there are various ways to access the document to get the text elsewhere if you need it. For various reasons, I actually prefer typing in Heart Writer, but OnLive is free and may be worth checking out as well.
If you are willing to jailbreak your device, you can also download an app called iKeywi HD which gives you a full keyboard with number keys which work in pretty much any app, as well as 4-direction cursor keys. For some reason, though, while the number keys always seem to work, the cursor keys seem to work in some apps and not others. They work in Heart Writer (where the enhancement is still useful to have for the up and down), and they work in Safari (including on an email site like Hotmail), but not in the standard Mail app.
As for some of the other side criticisms being mentioned... yeah, it's annoying to not have a "back" button (forget going back to other apps, I get lost *inside* the App Store -- a horribly designed app itself, but that's a whole other coversation)... But much of the things that make iOS a bit frustrating is how much is not obvious from looking at the screen, and how little in the way of documentation comes with it when you get it. I think a lot of people have no idea about what you can do by double-tapping the Home button, or positioning the cursor with the magnifying glass, how text selection works, etc. I mean, people in this very thread are learning these things, and if you're here, you're probably not among the most naive users to begin with! It's not a bad interface, it's just not always a terribly intuitive one. Once you know how to do these things, they mostly work well... it's just not always obvious how to do them at first, because so much of the interface is "invisible." This even extends to inside the apps themselves, where functions can depend on knowing where to tap the screen, or there are icons that have no text labels that tell you what they do.
Currently Being ModeratedApr 12, 2012 7:32 PM (in response to Barbara Brundage)
Unfortunately, when you turn it off, it also turns off things like adding apostrophes that you mightve wanted, or perhaps you wont, and i find it also wont capitalize simple words like i. But you cant add i to shortcuts since it wont take singleletter words (oh, wont splitwords either). Worthless. And rather than tell people "why would you want that, and ZOOM IN that takes less time than hitting an arrow key" someone should answer the actual question. Appstore has some aftermarket solutions, i believe. Oh, and since so many have asked, the reason is because everytime i try to put my finger on text where id like the curser to go, it asks me if i want to select all, just the word, copy, paste, etc. the one thing it never gives as an option is INSERT STUPID CURSOR HERE.
Glad i use a company-purchased ipad. Id feel nauseous if i spent my money on something so ludicrous. Motorola Xybook on my shopping list. And mostly due to the autocorrect. I'm one of the most accurate spellers on the planet, and with it on, it makes elementary mistakes, and with it off (like now), it wont do even simple capitalization and punctuation. Deal killer for me. ("I'm" is only spelling correctly because i put it in my personal shortcuts)
I do get some vengeance though. I named my ipad Steve Jobs. Now when it makes simple errors, i can chastise it by saying aloud something such as "Now, Steve Jobs, dont be silly, you know that Im has an apostrophe, dont you? Oh you dont? Oh well...."
BTW tried to take apostrophe out of I'm, and stupid ipad kept wanting me to select all, select a word, or paste. So annoying. Even blown up, it was doing it. So i did what i always do: erased the word and started over.
Currently Being ModeratedApr 13, 2012 10:23 AM (in response to stealthmouse)
Hilarious, "Stealth"! I agree -- huge waste of money, and as someone who takes pride in my spelling and punctuation -- even in phone texts -- I also hate autocorrect. And that is the main reason I have such an issue with the arrow keys. For the same price you can get an actual computer that does stuff that 99-cent apps can't accomplish (and you can usually expand the memory in various ways on other devices). I was lucky enough to have won mine, and I do use it a lot since I'm way into my social networking (but you can do that on any device these days). I try to tell all my friends that they should invest in a laptop or a cheaper tablet, but they just think this thing is da'bomb. Oh, well...