1 2 3 4 5 Previous Next 61 Replies Latest reply: May 24, 2013 3:11 PM by marten berkman Go to original post
  • 30. Re: Sony HDR-TD10 and MVC Formatting
    therandyzone Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    The GoPro folks, who now own Neo3D, have announced that their new version of the software (both PC and Mac) will fully support the TD10's files. You can download the Windows beta now; the Mac beta is supposed to be out in "a few days". This, from an email I received -

     

    We *are* actually the Neo3D folk, so you're in luck!  CineForm was acquired by GoPro this year, and we're in the process of rebranding our products from 'Neo' to 'GoPro CineForm Studio'  lineup.  The product that will replace Neo3D is GoPro CineForm Studio Professional.

     

    More good news.  Your Sony TD10 source is now supported!

     

    Are you 100% Mac, or do you use Windows as well?  If you want to try out the Windows software, use the links I sent before.  If you're only Mac, please let me know that and I'll make a note on my list here to add you to the Mac beta list.

     

    *******

     

    Dear GoPro/CineForm User,
    Thank you for you interest in the Premium and/or Professional version of GoPro CineForm Studio for Windows.  Good news: Our first round of betas are now available for download!

     

    As these products are so close to public release, our beta time will be limited.  Please report any issues or feedback promptly so that we can address any bugs asap.  You may report any technical issues directly to me (lbrown@gopro.com).

    You will be running this beta software in trial mode.  We suggest a complete clean install, so please remove any previous versions of CineForm or GoPro/CineForm software before you install the new software.

    We appreciate your time and effort in helping us test these awesome new products.  Enjoy!

    If you currently use Neo (Windows), download GoPro CineForm Studio Premium here: http://software.gopro.com/PC/GoProCineFormStudioPremium-1.1.1.95.zip


    If you currently use Neo 3D (Windows), download GoPro CineForm Studio Professional here: http://software.gopro.com/PC/GoProCineFormStudioPro-1.1.1.95.zip

    **Note to Neo 3D users:  Independent eye correction is not yet enabled, so we've included a current version of FirstLight so that you do not lose any of your current features/functionality.  This feature will be enabled in the Studio before public release.

    You are receiving this email because you've expressed interest in our Windows versions of the software.  If you'd like to be included in our Mac beta (expected first beta release in a few days), please respond directly to me and I'll make sure to send you notice when those betas are available as well.

    Cheers,

    Laura

     

    I hope this helps - I'm very anxious to get my hands on it!

  • 31. Re: Sony HDR-TD10 and MVC Formatting
    Louis XIV Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks for the post.

     

    The only problem is, accodeing to their site, that the software will cost $2,999.00.

     

    For that, I could buy an Alienware 3D laptop loaded to the gills with options.

     

    I should note that just because you have this software for Mac, there are a LOT of hardware and software requirements to truly edit Sony TD10 footage w/o major hassles and loss of features. I figure just getting a PC laptop that supports 3D is fine.

     

    W.

  • 32. Re: Sony HDR-TD10 and MVC Formatting
    therandyzone Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I'm not sure where you got that pricing info; their Neo program, which has a lot of 3D support, is $299; Neo 3D is $999. Here is their current feature breakdown -

     

    Comparing 3D Features in Neo3D and Neo

     

    Neo: Optimized for single-body, dual-lens 3D cameras such as Panasonic’s AG-3DA1
    Neo3d: Optimized for dual-camera stereo rigs. Also includes additional professional features as shown in the table.

     

    Features neo & neo3D

     

    • Create Mastering quality CineForm 3D files from virtually any source format  
    • Compatible with Adobe CS5, Apple FCS3, Avid MC v5  
    • Stereo Convergence Adjustment: Horizontal, Vertical, Skew (Rotation)  
    • Auto-zoom (border crop) for convergence adjustments  
    • Disparity zoom to correct for mismatched lens focal lengths  
    • 3D Display modes through OpenGL:
      - Anaglyph: Red-Cyan, Amber-Blue, Green-Magenta
       - HD Frame: side-by-side, over-under,line-interleave  - Active 3D (Nvidia 3D)  
    • Assist tools for convergence and color adjustments:
      - Grid lines overlay
       - Difference mode: (Left – Right)  - Onion skin  - Split screen for stereo color matching  
    • Stereo Color Controls:
      - Keyframeable color adjustment on stereo files
       - 64x64x64 color LUTs with 34 predefined  
    • 3D Overlay Engine with independent parallax control
      - User-generated text or titles
       - Graphics (PNG) overlay  - Tools: histogram, scopes, waveforms  - Burn-in metadata overlay: timecode, filename, etc  
    • Framing Controls:
      - Crop ratios: 4:3, 3:2, 16:9, 1.85:1, 2.39:1
       - Stereo zoom  - Pan and Scan (x, y adjust)  
    • Support for Tangent Wave control surface for color and 3D adjustments  (convenient alternative to software sliders in First Light)

     

    Neo 3D only:

     

    • Keyframeable convergence (convergence dissolves)
    • Floating Windows to correct for edge violations
    • Ghost Busting to reduce high-contrast ghosting on some passive displays
    • Keystoning correction (correct for camera toe-in/out)
    • Individual-eye color adjustment (for color mismatch between eyes)
    • Depth “tilt” to adjust relative depth of primary objects in a 3D scene
    • Image warping to correct lens distortion (coming later)
    • Dual-link stereo output to drive RealD, Dolby, and XpanD projectors

     

    As I said, I honestly don't know where you got that price. It looks to me like $299 will go a long way towards letting one work productively with TD10 files.

  • 33. Re: Sony HDR-TD10 and MVC Formatting
    Louis XIV Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I am assuming the prices listed on the NEO site I visited were incorrect or outdated.

     

    I do not see any information on MVC files, which are much different than the majority of 3D files.

     

    Regardless, please keep us updated. I will keep my fingers crossed... but unitl I see specific information that MVC files can be edited 100% w/o the losses and full editing limitations as with other Mac (TD-10) software attempts or conversions, I'll be a little cautious.

     

    W.

  • 34. Re: Sony HDR-TD10 and MVC Formatting
    Louis XIV Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    The NEO3D folks are worthless when it comes to answering questions.

     

    I've sent multiple requests inquiring about the hardware requirements for running (and successfully) editing with their software. I've heard nothing back, which means, A: poor customer service and likley poor technical assistance, and B: I doubt they even know what it takes to successfully edit the MVC format on a mac. I "mean" full editing, not what they think is good.

     

    W.

  • 35. Re: Sony HDR-TD10 and MVC Formatting
    therandyzone Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Well, I've got to amend my original optimistic post. I downloaded the Mac demo, and the only thing I could find that would recognize the MVC format did indeed convert it, but for only one of the two stereo images - as if one had been shooting in 2D mode.

     

    I'd love to be shown I'm mistaken, but it looks to me like the TD-10 is only supported for 2D at this point.

  • 36. Re: Sony HDR-TD10 and MVC Formatting
    joshdstanton Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    therandyzone, you are not mistaken. The Mac version of the new software cannot transcode mvc files into 3d cineform. The PC software, however, does. I'm running a virtual windows machine in order to use the pc software, which is not ideal, but from there i can work with the quicktimes in FCP which is my ultimate goal. I'm being told by gopro that mac support for mvc is in the works, but is being held up by vender approvals. So who knows when it will actually be available.

  • 37. Re: Sony HDR-TD10 and MVC Formatting
    fkamaral Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Does anyone have any news about how to work with these files in 3D on Mac without the need of a windows VM or machine?

  • 38. Re: Sony HDR-TD10 and MVC Formatting
    therandyzone Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I bypassed the issue altogether... By getting a Blackmagic Design Decklink HD 3D Extreme card, and capturing the dual stream via HDMI. Works like a charm.

     

    I'm also using an 8-drive RAID array, so your mileage may vary. It does the trick, though... I can then edit the stacked pair in FCP while viewing just one channel, and export each eye one at a time.

     

    I use BMD's Media Express software to view the resulting stereo pair on a Samsung 3D LCD. It's not quite as convenient as having real 3D support in the editor, but it gets the job done. Good luck!

  • 39. Re: Sony HDR-TD10 and MVC Formatting
    marten berkman Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)

    hey therandyzone, is there any compression off the TD10 as it comes over hdmi 1.4? ie are you happy with the quality of transcoded files? and what format do you transcode to? left and right apple pro res 422 HQ or other?

     

    Thanks!

  • 40. Re: Sony HDR-TD10 and MVC Formatting
    Louis XIV Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Interesting Mac / HDR-TD10 / MTS converter I just found during a search.

     

    http://www.mts-converter-mac.com/import-sony-handycam-hdr-td10-mts-files-to-imov ie-fce-fcp-for-mac.html

     

    I am out of town and don't have access to my files, but I'm really wondering if this software actually works, and what quality the converted clips are rendered into.

     

    If anyone wants to give it a try, please post back your results.

     

    The software is free but has a water mark on the saved clip unless it's purchsed. It costs $29.95 but will be well worth it if it does indeed work.

     

    W.

  • 41. Re: Sony HDR-TD10 and MVC Formatting
    therandyzone Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Hi, Marten -

     

    I capture the dual video stream using Apple Pro Res 4444, as I like to edit and add effects using this codec, regardless of the fact that the original material doesn't have quite this range.

     

    Of course, the material was compressed using Sony's AVCHD codec when it was originally written to the camera's hard drive; there's no way to get around that. Still, the resulting quality is actually quite high and generally free of visual artifacts.

     

    As an example, here's a frame taken from just one of the two video streams, using my HDMI capture method. It was originally captured using Pro Res 4444, but I've provided it as a .tif, to avoid adding additional compression. It's about 6MB, and if your browser won't handle .tifs, you'll need to download it to your desktop and view it with an image editing program. Safari handles it, no problem.

     

    (Actually, to see it at actual size, you should definitely download it and view it outside a browser, as the browser will almost certainly resize it.)


    http://memepuffs.com/firetruck.tif

     

    It was an investment, but I absolutely love this Blackmagic Design 3D Extreme HD card; it works flawlessly.

     

    Randy Walters

  • 42. Re: Sony HDR-TD10 and MVC Formatting
    marten berkman Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)

    Thank you Randy! That is great to hear, and the sample you provided is remarkable...especially from a consumer level camera with AVCHD compression. I have admired the picture in realtime playback through hdmi to a 3d tv, and have been disappointed by the compromise in image quality with roundabout transcoding processes. I will look into the specs for using this card. I do not have a RAID system, but the eSATA connection with an external G-Tech RAID drive might manage this real time data transfer. Do you have an idea of the data transfer rate through hdmi when playing 3d off your TD10? Never any issues with buffering?

     

    Thanks again for your experiences and sample, great to see a successful solution for what I consider a great camera.

  • 43. Re: Sony HDR-TD10 and MVC Formatting
    therandyzone Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    You're welcome, Marten -

     

    I don't think the data transfer rate through HDMI is the issue... that data is the highly compressed and difference-encoded AVCHD stream from the camera.

     

    What matters is the data rate that needs to be written to disk, after the stream has been demuxed and transcoded into whatever codec you plan to use.

     

    I did the math on a few of my TD10 files, all of which are 1080i 59.94.

     

    Files encoded as ProRes 422HQ single-stream are about 27MB/s, which means 54MB/s for stereo.

     

    To my surprise, ProRes 4444 files are roughly the same.

     

    For comparison, uncompressed files are 127MB/s, or 254MB/s for stereo. My 8-drive RAID tops out at 414.9MB/s write, 256.7MB/s read. Remember, you'll need to be able to cover the bandwidth for read as well, for smooth playback. (None of these figures should be taken as gospel; they're just the results I'm getting on my system.)

     

    I double-checked, and that fire engine image I linked to was actually ProRes 422HQ, not 4444.

     

    You can test your system's capabilities using this handy free app...

     

    http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/blackmagic-disk-speed-test/id425264550?mt=12

     

    Note that the results it gives for success in different formats are for *uncompressed* files... if you're using ProRes, you'll actually be able to capture in many formats this test marks as failing. You'll need to compare the actual numbers you get from the test with the numbers I've shared for comparison.

     

    I hope that helps!

     

    Randy

  • 44. Re: Sony HDR-TD10 and MVC Formatting
    Hollekamp Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Hello,

    well is it possible to connect the Camera to a Mac and get the files from the Camera or is it still impossible ?

    Do i need a special Driver to mount the Camera File Sytem ?

     

    Thank you all

     

    P.S. did someone Test the mts Coverter mention above ? http://www.mts-converter-mac.com/import-sony-handycam-hdr-td10-mts-files-to-imov ie-fce-fcp-for-mac.html