Currently Being ModeratedMar 30, 2012 8:31 AM (in response to mactorrox)
It is not useless if in fact the edit done in the Elements is intended for future use. Aperture creates a new Master when you act to send to an external editor. I like to call it a quasi-Master, because it can be altered by the external editor in place in the Aperture Library. The Version that then displays in Aperture is NOT a Version of the Original Master, but of the quasi-Master.
What do you want to accomplish by the proposed deletion?
Currently Being ModeratedMar 30, 2012 9:21 AM (in response to mactorrox)
In addition to Ernie's comments - if you are worried about the file size of the quasi-Master, check the settings for the external editor file format (Aperture -> Preferences -> Export: External editor File Format). Select Tiff (8-bit), that will give you the smallest file size, but a slightly reduzed quality compared to the other options.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 30, 2012 12:12 PM (in response to mactorrox)
Thanks or both points. Sometimes I try things out in Elements to see if I get better results than in Aperture, and to expetiment with pictures. In many cases I decide that for that photo there is no advantage of doing things in Elements (and there is a slight loss of quality if I am already at the liimit of ppi due to cropping - there is a loss somewhere along the line). In those cases I would not go back to edit that image in Elements. It is good house keeping to remove unwanted files - apart from memory issues (which are not that great), they do slow searches and other operations. As I mainly look for images in Aperture, if I can not even see it in Apreture, then there is no reason to have on file. I can still open it in Elements, since it can search through the Aperture file, but I can not open it through Aperture itself since it does not appear in the Library - that is why it is not that useful to have the quasi-master stored onthe computer. So how do I get rid of it?
Currently Being ModeratedMar 30, 2012 12:26 PM (in response to mactorrox)
You should be able to simply right click on it, and choose Delete Version and it will also delete the quasi-Master. The except might be if you are using Referenced Masters and have chosen to leave the original where you imported it from. I would have to check where Aperture puts the quasi-Master in that case. But an ordinary Referenced Master should should probably have its "near twin" saved in the same location.
More info, please, as to whether Managed or Referenced Library, and if the latter whether you ever import so as to leave in the original location.
It may also be that you only need to erase Apertures Trash -- have you done that after acting to remove one of these?
Currently Being ModeratedMar 30, 2012 2:34 PM (in response to mactorrox)
This is the problem. When I look in Aperture Library, is should be the quasi-master should be near the Master. It is not. When I do a search for it, it does not appear. It is as if Aperture does not recognise that the file exists - though it does exist as I can see it if I look through Elements (when it asks to open a file, and then I can navigate through Aperture file in finder). All Aperture photos are kept on my HD and is not a referenced library, or any other drive. I did erase Aperture Trash, and also HD Trash, just in case.
As the Aperture folder in the HD (finder) can not be accessed directly, I can not even go that route, of going through the files, and deleting that file.
I also do not undertand how the photo/file can still be in Aperture and I am not able to access it through the Library or and that it does not show with a date or name search. The only way I have managed to see it is through Elements and can not delete it that way ;(
Currently Being ModeratedMar 30, 2012 5:48 PM (in response to mactorrox)
Go to the Photos icon of the Aperture library in order to view al the images in your library. Then filter for externally edit images:
See if you find it then.
But your description of your problem is difficult to follow. I can;t make out if you deleted the image or are trying to delete it and how Elements even plays into this.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 31, 2012 1:50 AM (in response to mactorrox)
Thanks Frank. I had not realise that there was a filter for Externally Edited photos, so that is useful. I just used it and other photos I had edited in Elements appeared, but not the one I was referring to. So the problem persists.
To clarify the confusing issue. Through Aperture, I used Elements 9 as an external editor to edit a photo. The edit did not really work so I deleted it - or I thought I had. I also emptied Aperture Trash and the Finder Trash to make sure it is not there. Yet I can still open it in Elements and can see it in a folder inside Aperture (when going going through File - Open in Elements). It does not appear in Aperture when searching through the Librart panel and so can not try to delete it again.
Aperture does not seem to recognise an photo in its folder, i.e. the photo/file is still sitting in an Aperture folder, but the program is not recognising it, so I can not access it. I want to delete the photohop quasi-master and can not. The Master raw image is still there and that is OK. I hope this clarifies the situtation.
This might be a recurring problem which I just noticed, so am trying to sort it out for now and future cases.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 31, 2012 2:04 AM (in response to mactorrox)
The edit did not really work so I deleted it - or I thought I had.
How exactly did you delete it? Did you send the quasi-master that has been created, when you start your editing to the Aperture trash or did you delete it from the Finder?
Yet I can still open it in Elements
How? File -> Open Recent?
and can see it in a folder inside Aperture (when going going through File - Open in Elements).
When you are going through "File - Open in Elements" then you are creating a new quasi master all over again, if you deleted the previous quasi-master; this way you'll never get rid of the edited image, or do I misunderstand what you are doing?
Currently Being ModeratedMar 31, 2012 3:54 AM (in response to mactorrox)
I replicated everything you report using Aperture 3.2.3 and Photoshop CS5 with one exception -- there is a way to remove the quasi-master, ultimately.
My Aperture Library is Managed. I sent an image to Photoshop to edit, did so, and saved. I used Show Package Contents on the Library and confirmed that the quasi-Master had been created in the Masters folder of the Library, and consistent with my settings was Tiff. Then in Aperture I right-clicked on the edited image and chose Delete Version. I then used Show Package again and confirmed the quasi-Master was still in the Masters folder -- undoubtedly modified to respond to the filter for Trash. I then erased the Trash in Aperture, and further confirmed the quasi-Master was now gone from the Masters folder of the Package.
Then in Photoshop, Open Recent was still able to open the tiff image as you report, but doing so did not return it to the Master folder in the Package. Checked system Trash and found a folder named Aperture -- emptied System Trash, and then, and only then, Photoshop could no longer open the image, but rather gave the message that the file could not be found.
So -- to delete an image that has been sent to an internal image requires first deleting the Version, and then both emptying the trash in Aperture and then emptying the System Trash before it will gone from access by the external editor via Open Recent.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 31, 2012 4:17 AM (in response to Ernie Stamper)
Currently Being ModeratedMar 31, 2012 4:24 AM (in response to léonie)
I agree it seems odd, but replicated. I suppose I should note that my Aperture Library is on a separate disk drive and volume from that used by my boot volume, and since each disk drive has its own store of system Trash, and Photoshop is open in the boot volume, perhaps Photoshop doesn't react the same? Or perhaps because it has been placed in the System Trash by Aperture and not otherwise, and is encased in a folder named Aperture?
Currently Being ModeratedMar 31, 2012 11:31 AM (in response to mactorrox)
If I open Elements, go to File - Open and go through the folders under Aperture - Master, I can see the file I am referring to. I can open it in Elements but can not delete it, as it is in the Aperture folder/package.. If I go to Aperture, I can not see the photo. I also did the following, I made an alteration in Elements and saved the file again to see if it appears in Aperture, but still no luck. So the file is still filed in a folder in Aperture , but can not be seen in an Aperture panel so I can not delete it.
I emptied Trash in Aperture and tehs system Trash, but that did not make a difference (I know that this has to be done to really delete a file, but the file was not moved to either Trash so clearing Trash had no effect in this case).
The original delete was done through the Aperture menu. I can not remember if I deleted that version or that quasi-master and version. I think I just deleted the version and maybe that is why the quasi master is still there and I can not see the photo as there is no version . I can'r figure it out, but maybe that is where I went wrong.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 31, 2012 11:34 AM (in response to mactorrox)
Was this image simply in a Project, or was it also in an Album? If the latter, did you select and delect while in the Album?
Currently Being ModeratedMar 31, 2012 11:37 AM (in response to mactorrox)
It was in a project.
I really appreciate your help ( and the others who have been helping too)