14 Replies Latest reply: Apr 16, 2012 8:42 AM by Michael Holmes1
Michael Holmes1 Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)

I have been having sync problems with the QuickTime movies created by FCP X.

I have now been a test that says to me that QT is playing movies at 44.1 even though I originally created 48K movies in FCP X.

 

My test went this way:

- I set the audio hardware (Pro Tools/HD Native card) to 48K

- I played a 48K video (that I had created in FCP X) in QuickTime 7

- It played in sync (I have reinstalled QT 7, reinstalled Pro Tools, trashed preferences, and done many other things that I believe solved the sync problem)

- I checked the hardware sample rate and it is now set to 44.1K

- I opened Digi CoreAudio Manager and it is set to 44.1K

 

So, it seems to me there are two possibilities:

(1) The 48K videos were converted to 44.1K when I created the QT movies

(2) QT converts all videos to 44.1K

 

Anybody know what is actually happening here?

  • 1. Re: Does FCP X always create QT movies at 44.1K?
    Tom Wolsky Level 10 Level 10 (106,220 points)

    All Macs play out audio through their speakers at 44.1, which has nothing to do with the actiual sample rate of the media.

     

    1. That doesn't happen unless you explicitly instruct the application or use a setting that converts to 44.1. Without knowing your export procedure there's no way to tell.

     

    2. That never happens unless you explicitly instruct QuickTime to do it.

  • 2. Re: Does FCP X always create QT movies at 44.1K?
    Michael Holmes1 Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)

    I never play out of the Apple speakers. In System preferences --> sound, I have "Pro Tools/HD Native" selected for both input and output.

     

    In FCP X, I am in a 48K Project and I simply Share Media, select Video and Audio, use current settings (which is ProRes 422). I have assumed that FCP X exports a QT movie that is 48k. Is this correct?

     

    How do you instruct QT 7 to play at a certain sample rate? I didn't find where to do this in QT Preferences. I have assumed it plays at the sample rate of the .mov file that came from FCP X. Am I wrong on this?

  • 3. Re: Does FCP X always create QT movies at 44.1K?
    Tom Wolsky Level 10 Level 10 (106,220 points)

    Do you mean export media? If the project is 48k the output is 48k.

     

    You can only change the sample rate in the QT player by exporting the file.

     

    I'm not sure what you're asking or trying to get to. It seems like we're going around in circles without getting to the point.

  • 4. Re: Does FCP X always create QT movies at 44.1K?
    Michael Holmes1 Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)

    I guess I wasn't clear.

    - QT 7 is playing out through the Pro Tools card, not the apple speakers

    - I can see the sample rate of the audio hardware on the front of the Pro Tools audio boxes. When QT is playing, the sample rate reads 44.1 on the hardware, not 48

    - When I open Digi CoreAudio Manager, it says the sample rate is 44.1

    - So, I am pretty confident that the audio is being played at 44.1, not 48

    - I don't understand how this can be, and why the video/audio is in sync if it is playing at 44.1

     

    As I said, I know for certain that the Project sample rate was 48. There is no way to alter this when I export media. You are saying that the sample rate of the exported QT movie is thus 48. Yet everything say QT 7 is playing at 44.1. I don't understand:

     

    (1) Why it is playing at 44.1

    (2) Why this works on a 48 .mov file

     

    I also don't see a way to change the QT sample rate.

     

    Is that clear?

    If not let me know where I am confusing the issue. 

  • 5. Re: Does FCP X always create QT movies at 44.1K?
    Tom Wolsky Level 10 Level 10 (106,220 points)

    -What's the QT inspector say the sample rate is? If ProTools says different you have a problem with ProTools and the way it's reading the media.

    -One more time, the Mac always plays audio internally at 44.1. If your hardware cannot read the media file at the correct sample rate and not through the Mac playback system then that's something you have to address with ProTools.

     

    None of this hardware sample rate playback will be relevant to any sync problem.

  • 6. Re: Does FCP X always create QT movies at 44.1K?
    fox_m Level 4 Level 4 (3,810 points)

    FCPX should export the current project's audio properties — so you may be assuming something that isn't true (that it's actually 48k). When you set up your project, you have the option to have FCPX set up the project automatically based on the first clip. If you used this method, check to see what the audio rate of the first clip is (probably 44.1kHz)

     

    If you "Use Custom Settings" setting up the project, the "default" audio and render properties are Surround, 48kHz, ProRes 422. You can custom set the audio properties by clicking the Custom button and setting the Audio Channels and Audio Sample Rate. It should override first clip properties. If you custom set audio properties in a former project, FCPX might be remembering that "preference".

     

    If you're original audio is 44.1, changing the sample rate up to 48kHz will not improve it's quality, it will just increase the file size needlessly.

     

    If you "mismatch" 44.1 with 48, you'll end up with the 48k audio being approximately 8% longer (more samples "conformed" to 44.1 rate.)

     

    Forcing fcpx into a 48k audio rate should conform the video's audio to 48k and should sync with your imported 48k audio (although you might have to "Reset Speed" from the retiming dropdown).

     

    You can *change* the audio rate of a project by selecting the project in the project pane and clicking on the wrench icon under the inspector pane and specifying the new rate from the dropdown dialog.

     

    QT doesn't change anything unless you specifically export with different options. You can get all the data about the playing video in QT7 with the Info dialog (command-I) including the playing audio rate.

     

    HTH (kind of a shotgun answer... but I hope I covered what you needed to know somewhere )

  • 7. Re: Does FCP X always create QT movies at 44.1K?
    Goldfish Level 2 Level 2 (355 points)

    Michael,

    QuickTime will resolve the sample rate to conform to whatever your hardware clock is manually set to for playback.

    As Tom suggested you can confirm your media properties by looking at the inspector in QT7.

     

    Tom,

    Macs can clock at 44 or 48.

     

    g

  • 8. Re: Does FCP X always create QT movies at 44.1K?
    Michael Holmes1 Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)

    fox_m: "When you set up your project, you have the option to have FCPX set up the project automatically based on the first clip. If you used this method, check to see what the audio rate of the first clip is (probably 44.1kHz)"

     

    Doesn't this apply only to the video properties?

    Maybe I'm misreading it, but it appears to me that you are setting the Project sample rate, one way or the other. Under "Audio and Rendering Properties":

    (1) If you use default settings, it is set at 48K

    (2) If you use Custom settings, you still set the sample rate.

     

    Can you highlight a clip in the Event folder and use Inspector to read the Event clip's sample rate independent of the Project's sample rate? Or will you simply read the Project's sample rate (which you have set)?

     

    If I am misreading this, please set me straight.

    I am just trying to find the sample rate of the original material, somehow.

  • 9. Re: Does FCP X always create QT movies at 44.1K?
    Tom Wolsky Level 10 Level 10 (106,220 points)

    Open the original media in the QT player and see what it says in the movie inspector.

  • 10. Re: Does FCP X always create QT movies at 44.1K?
    Michael Holmes1 Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)

    Well, I answered my question. I trashed my Projects, then opened FCP X with no Projects available. I highlighted a clip in the Event folder and in Inspector--> Info, it shows it to be 48K.

     

    So, the issue around QuickTime and sample rate is not yet resolved to my satisfaction. But at least I can go forward using 48K Projects and get some editing done. At the same time, I will continue to sort out the 44.1K issue with QT, using some of the suggestions you guys have made. More to come.

     

    As an aside, I should also add that I spent the entire day trying to keep FCP X from freezing up every time I opened it. Per guidance from Apple techs, I reinstalled FCP (takes time), trashed the particular Event folder and re-imported (takes lots of time), tested external hard drives in the Mac Pro internal bays, etc., etc.

     

    After all that, I noticed this little AuvalTool icon popping up and down when I launched FCP, then disappearing. I did a search and found AU plug-ins are poison for FCP. Well, Pro tools doesn't use them, so no problem..............except I have Melodyne Editor installed as a stand-alone program. I love Melodyne, but I uninstalled it and the freezing stopped. Only one day wasted (except for the wonderful learning experience.)

     

    How many more of these traps does FCP X have in store? 

    Man.

  • 11. Re: Does FCP X always create QT movies at 44.1K?
    Michael Holmes1 Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)

    Well, here is what happened. I created a QT movie, working in the 48kHz, 24 bit Project (consistent with the imported files). When I played the movie in QT 7, the QT Inspector said:

     

    - Format: Apple ProRes 422, 1920 x 1080, 24-bit Integer, 48.0kHz

    - FPS: 29.97

    - Playing FPS: 30 (occasionally dropping to 29 for an instant)

    - Data rate: 149.3 mbits/sec

     

    So, it recognizes the file is 48k.

     

    I had the Digidesign hardware set in advance to 48.0k before I opened QT 7, with clock set to "internal" so CoreAudio could change it.

    However, the instant QT 7 launched (before I told it to play any file), the hardware switched to 44.1k.

     

    When I had QT 7 open the file and play it, the hardware stayed set at 44.1k, even though QT 7 is saying that the file is 48k. I can see the sample rate on the faceplate of the Digidesign digital boxes and also on the Lavry D-to-A converters downstream of the Digi boxes, which read the sample rate of the digital input. So I am confident the actual sample rate of the digital stereo going out is 44.1k.

     

    The file played in sync, it works fine.

    This tells me that QT 7 is converting the sample rate to 44.1k........I don't know how else to interprete the data.

    I don't see any control setting I have to tell QT 7 to play at the sample rate of the file it is playing.

     

    I don't get it. 

     

    So my title question should have been:

    "Does QuickTime always output audio at 44.1k?" (After converting the sample rate)

    At least on my player, the answer seems to be "yes"

  • 12. Re: Does FCP X always create QT movies at 44.1K?
    Goldfish Level 2 Level 2 (355 points)

    Michael Holmes1 wrote:

     

    "... I had the Digidesign hardware set in advance to 48.0k before I opened QT 7, with clock set to "internal" so CoreAudio could change it.

    However, the instant QT 7 launched (before I told it to play any file), the hardware switched to 44.1k.

     

    That's odd - I can't comment on how Digi handles clock with respect to core audio, I'm a MOTU / ASIO user and if I set my sample rate to 48k nothing messes with it.

     

    That said, I have one other suggestion.

    Have you opened the Audio Midi Setup Utility and set that to 48k? That might be the reason Core Audio is trying to change your hardware.

     

    RE- AU Plug-ins. I had the same experience with FCP7 a few years ago when I tried to install it on my music production computer. I had to go into "library / Audio / plugins / components" and remove all the AU plugs.

    Luckily I'm a VST user so I just put it behind me. I just assumed it was due to FCPs pre AU coding.

    I'm actually shocked to her that it's still an issue with FCPX. Especially considering that AUs are an Apple product.

     

    good luck.

    g

  • 13. Re: Does FCP X always create QT movies at 44.1K?
    Michael Holmes1 Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)

    Well, I watched the hardware boxes as I went through the process to see when the sample rate changes from 48k to 44.1k.

    When I quit Pro Tools, the boxes are at 48k (the Pro Tools session is 48k), and both Audio MIDI Setup and Digi CoreAudio Manager show 48k.

     

    When I launch FCP X and it is open to a Project, the sample rate jumps to 44.1k.

    So, it is not being caused by QuickTime, but rather by FCP X.

    This makes no sense to me, because all the Projects in FCP X are at 48k.

    The sample rate is then locked in and I cannot change it from either Audio MIDI Setup or Digi CoreAudio manager........44.1k is the only option.

     

    When I export a 48k QuickTime movie and open it in QuickTime 7, there is no change, even though the movie is at 48k (and QT Inspector confirms this). I assume QT is converting to 44.1k and my hardware boxes then convert at 44.1k, because the movie plays fine.

     

    The sample rate stays locked to 44.1k until I open a 48k session in Pro Tools. Then, it jumps to 48k (as it should).

     

    Is there a settings somewhere in FCP X that I can change to stop this?

    It seems to be ignoring the sample rate of the Projects............yet it exports audio and QT movies at 48k.

    I don't get it. 

     

    Has anybody seen this before?

  • 14. Re: Does FCP X always create QT movies at 44.1K?
    Michael Holmes1 Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)

    Well, here is specifically what is happening:

    - I run a Pro Tools session at 48k, which sets the audio hardware sample rate at 48k

    - The FCP X Projects are all at 48k, the relevant Pro Tools session is at 48k, all clips in the Event Folder are at 48k.

    - When I launch FCP X, the sample rate of the audio gear remains at 48k (as shown on front of audio hardware, Digi CoreAudio manager, Audio MIDI Setup)

    - The sample rate stays at 48k until I start to play the video in the Timeline. Immediately when it starts to play, the sample rate switches to 44.1k.

     

    Exactly the same thing happens when the sample rate is at 48k and I start to play a QT movie that has been exported from FCP X.

     

    Once the sample rate switches to 44.1k, I cannot change it in either in the Digi CoreAudio Manager or the Audio MIDI Setup. The only way to get to 48k is to launch Pro Tools and open a 48k session.

     

    My conclusion:

    FCP X, QuickTime and Grapler all output audio at 44.1k, independent of material sample rate.

     

    I know some of you have stated that that these applications will output at the sample rate of the material, but it is not happening on my system. If you think my conclusion is wrong, then what can I do to change the operation of my system?