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how do I do a "save as" on Pages?

9118 Views 43 Replies Latest reply: Mar 13, 2014 8:51 AM by Danny1978 RSS
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jul818 Calculating status...
Currently Being Moderated
Apr 17, 2012 4:39 PM

Want to resave a document monthly in order to make small change each month but save the previous ones (monthly billing). Is there any way? If not, will Apple issue me a refund so that I can buy Microsoft again? This is a huge billing problem for me!

iMac, Mac OS X (10.7.3)
  • Woffman Calculating status...
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    Apr 17, 2012 8:06 PM (in response to jul818)

    "Duplicate" then make the changes then "save as..."  If you duplicate from Finder then you won't have two documents open on your desktop.  The new scheme was so annoying to me that I reverted back to the previous version of iWork to get back "save/save as".  

     

    This is how I did it:  https://discussions.apple.com/message/15949298#15949298  You should be able to find what you need...

     

    Happy hunting

  • Jerrold Green1 Level 7 Level 7 (28,190 points)
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    Apr 17, 2012 8:14 PM (in response to jul818)

    It's a simple matter if you adjust your workflow order to match the new OS.

     

    Each month, before you begin making changes, open your document and File > Duplicate, Command-S..., Command-W. Then continue with the month's edits on the document you opened. You have made and saved an achieve copy of your document as it was when you just opened it and you are in the edit mode for making your monthly additions. It's no more steps than you used before, but it's in a different order.

     

    Jerry

  • Woffman Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Apr 17, 2012 8:35 PM (in response to Jerrold Green1)

    Respectfully beg to differ... Open the doc, make changes, save as... Duplicate and closing the duplicate are extra steps.  I know some strongly prefer the new scheme while others of us prefer the former one.  I just don't understand why it had to be an either/or approach instead of both/and.  Yesterday, I downloaded a little word processing program that allowed me to turn off "autosave" so I suspect that the duplicate/save as... could be "turned off" as well.  Obviously, the latest version of iWork retains save/save as on Snow Leopard, so its got to be in there somewhere.

  • PeterBreis0807 Level 7 Level 7 (27,320 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 17, 2012 10:57 PM (in response to jul818)

    Keyboard shortcuts such as command w (clicking on both the command and w keys simultaneously) save you going to the menus all the time.

     

    command w closes windows.

     

    Peter

  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,760 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 17, 2012 11:25 PM (in response to Woffman)

    Woffman wrote:

     

    Open the doc, make changes, save as... Duplicate and closing the duplicate are extra steps.

    What you describe is not the correct workflow.

    Your changes would be store in the original document too and I'm not sure that it's what you want.

    The correct workflow would be:

    open the doc

    duplicate

    save the duplicate

    edit this duplicate as you want (AutoSave will apply)

    close the duplicate when it's ready.

    You are free to close the original immediately after duplicating it or keep it open to create new documents.

     

    I use none of these workflows.

    I save every document which must be used as starting point to create new ones as templates.

    This way I'm sure that the changes which I make can't be stored in my original.

     

    There is a switch in the application.

    If the system is Lion it behave the new way, if it's an older system it behave the old way.

    Happily, there is no way to change that.

     

    Third party developers are urged to apply the new scheme.

    Some refused completely and their app can't enter Mac App Store.

    Some deliver the new feature with enable/disable switch. At this time they may enter the M.A.S.

    Only those delivering Versions and AutoSave with no enable/disable switch may enter the list of « Lion aware » applications (it's why GraphicConvert was removed from this list).

    At this time, Apple applications matching the rule are :

     

    iBooks Author

    Keynote

    Numbers

    Pages

    Preview

    TextEdit

     

    Guess that others will do when they will be updated.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 18 avril 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

  • Jerrold Green1 Level 7 Level 7 (28,190 points)
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    Apr 18, 2012 12:37 AM (in response to Woffman)

    Woffman wrote:

     

    Respectfully beg to differ... Open the doc, make changes, save as... Duplicate and closing the duplicate are extra steps.  I know some strongly prefer the new scheme while others of us prefer the former one.  I just don't understand why it had to be an either/or approach instead of both/and.  Yesterday, I downloaded a little word processing program that allowed me to turn off "autosave" so I suspect that the duplicate/save as... could be "turned off" as well.  Obviously, the latest version of iWork retains save/save as on Snow Leopard, so its got to be in there somewhere.

     

    W,

     

    I believe that those arguing that we're discussing a simple on/off switch are missing the point that this change is in harmony with a shift in philosophy, or attitude, or how we think about, the "save" status that Apple is promoting. If we think about our documents as being continuously saved, when we duplicate them we should naturally assume that we are duplicating the current state, not some previous condition. That previous condition is now, more than ever, ambiguous, because it is no longer necessary to ever close an active document and reopen it, or consciously save it, even if we close the application that created it. I predict that at some point when this way of thinking about the save status of documents becomes ingrained we will scratch our heads trying to recall why one would ever assume that "Save As" means to store the document in some previous state.

     

    Jerry

  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,760 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 18, 2012 12:42 AM (in response to Jerrold Green1)

    Well said Jerrold.

     

    Glad to see that there is at least one other user understanding the new scheme.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 18 avril 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

  • PeterBreis0807 Level 7 Level 7 (27,320 points)
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    Apr 18, 2012 12:47 AM (in response to Jerrold Green1)

    Because Jerrold we do want to save it in a particular state.

     

    Rubbery is for schmucks.

     

    Which is why banks and similar institutions love having their conditions on the web and your signature on their paper documents. Usually in triplicate.

     

    Peter

  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,760 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 18, 2012 1:08 AM (in response to PeterBreis0807)

    Hi peter

     

    With the new scheme we master the state as we ever did.

     

    -- open a document

    as long as we aren't fool enough to embed a living item like a date there is no chjange applied to it.

    -- duplicate the document

    changes nothing to the original

    -- save the duplicate with the wanted name/location so that Autosave will apply

    required due to the bug already described

    -- edit the duplicate as we want

    AutoSave apply

    -- close the duplicate document

    it saves automatically every changes.

    When the described bug will be killed it's during the close process that we will set the name and the location because when it will apply automatically, AutoSave will save in a temporary location (the one displayed in my late screenshot).

     

    One more time, it would be even more efficient if like me you start from templates.

    About living dates, when we create a custom one, if we insert a living date in it, it would behave as a really living one in the documents created from the template … only if we don't apply a tip described in the 1st half of 2009. This tip give to this kind of date the same behavior than dates embedded in in-the-box templates. Its value is set to the date of the new doc creation, then it remains fixed.

     

    Every applications accept templates.

    Some like : iBooks Author, Keynote, Numbers, Pages require a specific name extension

    Others like Preview or TextEdit are ruled by a setting applied in the file's infos window.

    2012-04-18T10.04.31.png

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 18 avril 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

  • PeterBreis0807 Level 7 Level 7 (27,320 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 18, 2012 1:37 AM (in response to KOENIG Yvan)

    Yvan

     

    There are many aspects to this that you have not thought through, just as Apple has not.

     

    Newton established the rules of the universe that help us understand intelectually what we know instinctively.

     

    Objects remain in their original condition unless an external force changes them. Apple has chosen to have a hidden external force change things behind our backs and it is extremely frustrating to try and follow what is going on and prevent it when you do not want ANY changes at all.

     

    A typical example is work that posters send me to determine what is going wrong. Whether I work on the original file or a duplicate, OSX Lion is constantly saving changes I do not want to take effect as I experiment with the file.

     

    I never know at what point the saves are happening without having to examine the file for possibly minute changes. I never know what is the original file, because to open it is to eventually change it.

     

    This applies to many files that I receive as part of my workflow. I do not want to change what the client has given me in any way because it is my reference, my safety net, my legal binding evidence of what was given to me.

     

    Further I do not want to issue work that has versions in it, because I do not want clients reverting to previous versions and in many cases I do not want them to even see what I may have done.

     

    Trying to keep track of what version of which document has been exported to possibly a further versioned alternate format is a nightmare. The clients will have the same problem as they can not safely establish what I have given them is not changed on their computer.

     

    This all smacks to me of idiots trying to be smart, but not realising how far off target they are.

     

    This is way beyond even Microsoft's Paperclip Bob for constantly tripping you up whilst supposedly "being helpful"

     

    Peter

  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,760 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 18, 2012 2:04 AM (in response to PeterBreis0807)

    PeterBreis0807 wrote:

     

    Yvan

     

    A typical example is work that posters send me to determine what is going wrong. Whether I work on the original file or a duplicate, OSX Lion is constantly saving changes I do not want to take effect as I experiment with the file.

     

    I never know at what point the saves are happening without having to examine the file for possibly minute changes. I never know what is the original file, because to open it is to eventually change it.

     

    This applies to many files that I receive as part of my workflow. I do not want to change what the client has given me in any way because it is my reference, my safety net, my legal binding evidence of what was given to me.

     

    If you apply the workflow which I described, the changes apply to the duplicate, no to the original.

    When I receive such documents for tests, the first thing which I do is to rename them.

     

    xx.numbers become xx.nmbtemplate

    yy.pages become yy.template

    zz.key become zz.kth

     

    This way, they behave as template and the original isn't modified.

    I'm a bit tired to be forced to repeat this simple scheme so often.

    Further I do not want to issue work that has versions in it, because I do not want clients reverting to previous versions and in many cases I do not want them to even see what I may have done.

     

    Trying to keep track of what version of which document has been exported to possibly a further versioned alternate format is a nightmare.

    If you choose to trust ranters which don't understand the tool's behavior, no need to ask my advice.

    I repeat that versions aren't stored in the documents.

    Yes, I wrote once, just after the Lion delivery, that they were stored in the doc but I explained the correct behavior more than twenty times since.

    They are stored in a hidden folder which never move to an other device.

    2012-04-11T22.23.59.png

    On the left I show the folder in which documents are saved.

    On the right is the hidden folder whose access is disabled in which datas describing the versions are stored.

     

    I carefully use different verbs.

     

    The system save documents but it store datas describing the versions.

    If you duplicate a document from the HD on which it is saved to an other HD, only the document is duplicated.

    If you move a document from the HD on which it is saved to an other HD, the datas describing versions are deleted on the original HD.

     

    I described that in detail in :

    Versions as a recovery tool

    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3303794

    Alas, if I may explain features, I can't read these explanations for you.

    I gave scripts able to duplicate the hidden folder in a safe area so that :

     

    (1) we don't loose the datas if we delete a file by mistake

    (2) we may replace, for the replicate, the "access denied" status by "read allowed"

    This way, if we mistakenly delete a file, or get it corrupted, we may extract (thanks to the two other scripts) the datas related to versions allowing the app to recreate a correct document.

    More, when you use the scripts, you see the date when the differents version-datas were stored so you may choose the version to revive.

    I'm waiting a bit because I want to try to think to every possible consequences but I plan to file an enhancement request : in the window displaying the versions, replace the doc name which uselessly appear at top of every version by the date-time of these versions. Displaying the doc's name only once at top of the current version seems to be sufficient.

    If you think of a possible drawback of such change, let me know.

     

    Of course, I plan also to ask Apple to deliver an official application doing what I offered with my three scripts.

    I'm unable to code in C+ so I can't gather the scripts in a single tool whose use would be easier.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 18 avril 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

  • PeterBreis0807 Level 7 Level 7 (27,320 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 18, 2012 2:36 AM (in response to KOENIG Yvan)

    Here Yvan try and follow this:

     

    1. I receive a file open and duplicate it, hopefully I have beaten any attempt by Lion to save changes to the original which is a named file and subject to auto save.

     

    2. I then work on the duplicate, trying a lot of alternatives which are getting saved as I work so that the file is no longer original. To get back to the original state I have to start all over again or jump through complicated hoops to find a version that may or may not be the original file as I opened it.

     

    3. As this is happening behind my back, I would need to hunt out the saved versions and compare them to an opened "original" version to find out what has changed, only the "original" version would also be being changed whilst I am checking it for changes!

     

    4. As the versioning is stored on your current system's hard drive, what happens when the file is on another hard drive or volume? What happens when you switch systems/users to work on the same file? What happens across servers?

     

    5. What happens to backup copies which are obviously on another drive?

     

    6. What happens when someone accesses the file on the original drive and can check through and possible revert back to older versions? Like when I thought twice about calling the Apple Engineers Arse Hats for creating this monster.

     

    It is like herding cats.

     

    Whatever Apple chooses to do in a hidden folder is hardly illuminating or helpful to the user who isn't watching what is going on, nor even able to easily check what is going on if they have to.

     

    To make this "easier" the user needs to understand what Apple hasn't bothered to explain and isn't readily apparent. Frankly my brain is not "the size of the universe" and is unlikely to become so just by Apple assuming I fall into 2 categories:

     

    Too stupid to know

     

    or

     

    So clever, I don't need to be told!

     

    Peter

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