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HT5246: About Flashback malware removal tool

Learn about About Flashback malware removal tool

HT5246 how do i know if i have java installed?

2186 Views 19 Replies Latest reply: Apr 19, 2012 3:49 AM by jsd2 RSS
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RL22 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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Apr 16, 2012 11:39 PM

the software updatethe flashback malware removal tool says its only necessary java is not installed.

well....how about a little help apple....

 

how can i tell if java is installed?

isnt it  part of the system software???

Mac Pro. PowerBook G4, Mac OS X (10.4.8)
  • Kappy Level 10 Level 10 (221,025 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 16, 2012 11:41 PM (in response to RL22)

    If you have Lion installed and did not specifically download and install Java, then you do not have Java installed.

  • baltwo Level 9 Level 9 (59,150 points)
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    Apr 17, 2012 12:50 PM (in response to Kappy)
    27" i7 iMac 10.6.8 , Mac OS X (10.7.3), G4 450 MP 1.5 GB RAM w/(10.5.8/10.4.11/9.2.2)
  • MadMacs0 Level 4 Level 4 (3,320 points)
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    Apr 18, 2012 12:58 AM (in response to baltwo)

    baltwo wrote:

     

    AFAIK, Most Java components are installed by default.

    Not sure where you learned this, but I have not read that anywhere, including the two articles you referenced. I've been informed by several others in the forum that the Lion installation removes all traces of Java when installed over older systems and there is no sign of it on a virgin Lion Mac (other than the Java Preferences).

     

    It is true that JRE can be controlled separately once installed and the c|net article describes disabling other components.

  • Kappy Level 10 Level 10 (221,025 points)
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    Apr 18, 2012 8:51 AM (in response to MadMacs0)

    That is correct prior to Lion. Java is installed with OS X. That only stopped with Lion.

  • MadMacs0 Level 4 Level 4 (3,320 points)
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    Apr 18, 2012 9:33 AM (in response to Kappy)

    Kappy wrote:

     

    That is correct prior to Lion. Java is installed with OS X. That only stopped with Lion.

    Yes, of course, but we are all talking Lion here, are we not?

  • Kappy Level 10 Level 10 (221,025 points)
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    Apr 18, 2012 9:46 AM (in response to MadMacs0)

    I think B2 was thinking pre-Lion.

     

    Sometimes it's hard to know what we are talking about at any given time here in the forums.

  • jsd2 Level 5 Level 5 (6,200 points)
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    Apr 18, 2012 10:55 AM (in response to RL22)

    RL22,

     

    An easy way to tell if Java is installed is to go to your Utilities folder and launch Java Preferences.

    I have a dual-boot system. When I do this in Snow Leopard I see:

    .Screen shot 2012-04-18 at 1.32.42 PM.png

    This indicates that Java is installed and displays the versions, which reflect Apple's recent updates. I have unchecked the boxes, which means that Java is disabled, though still "installed."

     

    By contrast, when I launch Java Preferences from my Lion system, I instead seeScreen Shot 2012-04-18 at 1.29.05 PM.png

    .

    indicating that Java is not installed there at all.

  • baltwo Level 9 Level 9 (59,150 points)
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    Apr 18, 2012 11:59 AM (in response to MadMacs0)

    MadMacs0 wrote:

    baltwo wrote:

    AFAIK, Most Java components are installed by default.

    Not sure where you learned this, but I have not read that anywhere, including the two articles you referenced. I've been informed by several others in the forum that the Lion installation removes all traces of Java when installed over older systems and there is no sign of it on a virgin Lion Mac (other than the Java Preferences).

    Then, you need to do your own investigations. I just installed Lion onto an empty volume and migrated only my user info. A check inside /System/Library/ reveals a Java folder and inside  /System/Library/Frameworks/ reveals three subfolders: JavaFrameEmbedding, JavaScriptCore, and JavaVM. All of these are Java components.

     

    java.png

     

     

    Java2.png

    27" i7 iMac 10.6.8 , Mac OS X (10.7.3), G4 450 MP 1.5 GB RAM w/(10.5.8/10.4.11/9.2.2)
  • MadMacs0 Level 4 Level 4 (3,320 points)
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    Apr 18, 2012 1:59 PM (in response to baltwo)

    baltwo wrote:

     

    Then, you need to do your own investigations.

     

    If only I could...

    I just installed Lion onto an empty volume and migrated only my user info. A check inside /System/Library/ reveals a Java folder and inside  /System/Library/Frameworks/ reveals three subfolders: JavaFrameEmbedding, JavaScriptCore, and JavaVM.

    Thanks for getting back to us on this.

     

    Now I need to think about why these components don't need to be updated. The CVE must be exclusively in JRE?

  • baltwo Level 9 Level 9 (59,150 points)
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    Apr 18, 2012 3:56 PM (in response to MadMacs0)

    Now I need to think about why these components don't need to be updated. The CVE must be exclusively in JRE?

    Some of them are updated. Check the install log and you'll see entries for other updated items. Ultimately, peruse the various Java-related bom files located in /var/db/receipts/ for what was put where.

    27" i7 iMac 10.6.8 , Mac OS X (10.7.3), G4 450 MP 1.5 GB RAM w/(10.5.8/10.4.11/9.2.2)
  • MadMacs0 Level 4 Level 4 (3,320 points)
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    Apr 18, 2012 4:48 PM (in response to baltwo)

    baltwo wrote:

     

    Some of them are updated. Check the install log and you'll see entries for other updated items.

    As I hinted before I don't have access to a Lion Mac at the moment, but right after I wrote my note I downloaded the Update and took a look inside and found the same thing. For instance, both the JavaFrameEmbedding and JavaVM Frameworks are updated (JavaScriptCore isn'tJava).

     

    So here's my question. If you don't have JRE installed then Software Update does not offer an update, correct? If those two frameworks (along with a few other assorted Java related files) aren't updated what's the impact? I realize this doesn't open the door to Flashback via the web interface, but would you still be vulnerable to attack by some other means that use say one of those two frameworks?

  • baltwo Level 9 Level 9 (59,150 points)
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    Apr 18, 2012 9:02 PM (in response to MadMacs0)

    MadMacs0 wrote:

    If you don't have JRE installed then Software Update does not offer an update, correct?

    Don't know. Since the attacks come through browsers, I don't worry about anything else, just disable Java in the browser, if it really bothers you. I need it for Mathematica and other things. IMO, much to do about not much. Just an overhyped threat because Mac OS hasn't had much attention.

    27" i7 iMac 10.6.8 , Mac OS X (10.7.3), G4 450 MP 1.5 GB RAM w/(10.5.8/10.4.11/9.2.2)
  • MadMacs0 Level 4 Level 4 (3,320 points)
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    Apr 18, 2012 9:35 PM (in response to RL22)

    RL22 wrote:

     

    Original poster here..

    Sorry, we've been talking amongst ourselves here.

    but what this is really about is the software update notice for "Flashback malwareremoval tool"

    in which it is stated: 'This update is recommended for all Mac users who do not have Java installed.'

     

    Which, first of all, is very un-apple like in terms of user-unfriendliness....how many users know whether they have java installed...

    Secondly it doesn't even seem to be correct...so far the advice I've gotten seems to imply if you don't have Java you DON'T need the removal tool...because the malware runs on Java...

    Just a bit confused on why your profile says you are running 10.4.8 on a G4 Mac, but let's assume that you are posting to this forum because you are now running Lion.

     

    From your point of view you should run whatever Software Update tells you to run and not worry about trying figure out what you need or don't need. Software update knows whether you have Java installed or not and will deliver the proper update to you.

     

    The advise that not having Java installed means you don't need the tool may be incorrect. If you installed Lion over a previous version of OS X or migrated your home folder from another computer or hard drive, then most of the Flashback malware will still be there. If this is a new machine and you haven't migrated, copied or otherwise moved anything onto it, then you are OK.

     

    The statement that the malware runs on Java is totally incorrect. Java is only used when you are browsing a web page to download Flashback onto your hard drive.  All of the components are non-Java executables that run perfectly on an Intel Mac.

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