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Streamclip Settings for Apple 3?

4222 Views 107 Replies Latest reply: May 29, 2012 3:55 AM by Jon Walker RSS
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thomasmontalto Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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May 11, 2012 9:06 AM

Has anyone used Streamclip to make files for their Apple TV 3?

 

If so, I am curious to what settings you used as I can't find any.

 

Thanks!

AppleTV 2, iOS 5
  • Jon Walker Level 6 Level 6 (17,520 points)
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    May 11, 2012 1:04 PM (in response to thomasmontalto)

    Has anyone used Streamclip to make files for their Apple TV 3?

    Yes, but I prefer using HandBrake with its X.264 codec which has many more user options available.

     

     

    If so, I am curious to what settings you used as I can't find any.

    Use the MPEG-4 Export/iTunes option to select the TV2 1280x720 (HD) setting and close the iTunes presets window. Now you can modify the TV2 settings to TV3 settings. Once this is done, you can save your TV3 settings as a user preset for future use.

     

    Basically you are dealing with setting limits here. For instance, TV3 videos are limited to Main or High Profile and Level 4 encodings. This translates to a max of 8,192 macroblocks (8,100 macroblocks in a 1920x1080 frame), and a data rate of 20 Mbps (Main Profile) or 25 Mbps (High Profile). In addition, AAC audio is limited to 160 Kbps/Channel Stereo with a sampling rate of 48.0 KHz for TV3 (but MPEG Streamclip limits you to only 128 Kbps/Channel here). Limiting the video data rate to the 12-14 Mbps range would probably be a good starting place until you can better assess possible distribution limits for your home/system. Pushing 20 Mbps may cause videos with a lot of action at the beginning of the file to stop and restart continuously until enough data is cached for continuous playback. Quality settings in the 50 to 80% range would be considered normal. I normally deinterlace interlaced content but you may want to test results as this can produce issues with some source material.

     

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  • Jon Walker Level 6 Level 6 (17,520 points)
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    May 12, 2012 5:14 PM (in response to thomasmontalto)

    I'm new at this and just a bit confused and frustrated as I have been trying to get this going for months.  Are your instructions for Handbrake or Streamclip?

    Since you asked about MPEG Streamclip, the instructions were given for Streamclip. However, the basic idea also applies to Handbrake. However, I use various custom HandBrake X.264 settings to include No DCT Decimation, Optimal Adaptive B-Frames, UMH Motion Estimation with extended ranges, decomb for interlaced source, usually leave detelecine on, usually use anamorphic mode at 80% of the full display width, etc. targeting H.264/AAC/AC3/Chap M4V files rather than MPEG Streamclip H.264/AAC MP4 target files.

     

     

    I use Handbrake now, but I have some old files that I need to use Streamclip because I edited out some scenes using Streamclip and when I try to make them TV3 it knocks off the audio sync from the video.

    It may be too late to correct mistakes made in older files. Not knowing the source compression format I can only make generalizations at this point. I normally try to set "in" points on intra- or key frames and "Out" points on the final P- or B-Fames where/when possible and normally try to use a work flow that re-samples the audio to 16-bits @ 48.0 KHz to avoid mismatched data/sample rates or problems between CBR/VBR audio conversions. Sometimes it helps to demux muxed GOP compression formats to elementary data stream formats before editing.

     

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  • MlchaelLAX Level 4 Level 4 (1,550 points)
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    May 12, 2012 5:38 PM (in response to Jon Walker)

    His original files are similar to this Hauppauge HDVPR-1212 output file:

     

     

    * * * MediaInfo Mac is ©2010 by Diego Massanti - http://mediainfo.massanti.com

    * * * MediaInfoLib by Jerome Martinez - http://mediainfo.sourceforge.net

    Created on: May 12, 2012 5:28:56 PM PDT

    Report for file: 20120512_171323.m2ts

     

    General / Container Stream #1

      Total Video Streams for this File.................1

      Total Audio Streams for this File.................1

      Video Codecs Used.................................AVC

      Audio Codecs Used.................................AC3

      File Format.......................................MPEG-TS

      Play Time.........................................55s 967ms

      Total File Size...................................95.6 MiB

      Total Stream BitRate..............................14.3 Mbps

    Video Stream #1

      Codec (Human Name)................................AVC

      Codec (FourCC)....................................27

      Codec Profile.....................................Main@L4.0

      Frame Width.......................................1 920 pixels

      Frame Height......................................1 080 pixels

      Frame Rate........................................29.970 fps

      Total Frames......................................1678

      Display Aspect Ratio..............................16:9

      Scan Type.........................................Interlaced

      Scan Order........................................TFF

      Color Space.......................................YUV

      Codec Settings (Summary)..........................CABAC / 4 Ref Frames

      QF (like Gordian Knot)............................0.213

      Codec Settings (CABAC)............................Yes

      Codec Settings (Reference Frames).................4

      Video Stream Length...............................55s 989ms

      Video Stream BitRate..............................13.2 Mbps

      Video Stream BitRate Mode.........................VBR

      Bit Depth.........................................8 bits

      Video Stream Size.................................88.2 MiB (92%)

      Color Primaries...................................BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177

      Transfer Characteristics..........................BT.709-5, BT.1361

      Matrix Coefficients...............................BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177

    Audio Stream #1

      Codec.............................................AC-3

      Codec (FourCC)....................................129

      Audio Stream Length...............................56s 0ms

      Audio Stream BitRate..............................384 Kbps

      Audio Stream BitRate Mode.........................CBR

      Number of Audio Channels..........................6

      Audio Channel's Positions.........................Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE

      Sampling Rate.....................................48.0 KHz

      Bit Depth.........................................16 bits

      Audio Stream Delay................................387ms

      Audio Stream Size.................................2.56 MiB (3%)

     

    Screen shot 2012-05-12 at 5.16.35 PM.png

  • Jon Walker Level 6 Level 6 (17,520 points)
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    May 12, 2012 6:22 PM (in response to MlchaelLAX)

    His original files are similar to this Hauppauge HDVPR-1212 output file...

    Since the compressed data depicted here is already TV3 compatible, I personally would simply try using VLC to re-wrap the original audio and video content in an MOV file container along with an additional MPEG Streamclip AAC stereo transcoding of the AC3 audio (added using QT 7 Pro). All three MOV tracks could then be re-muxed to an M4V file container if desired. Unfortunately, not having an sample file to play with at this time, I have not actually tried this work flow to see how well it might work. The advantage here is that all of the original audio and video data remains untouched as far as re-compression is concerned. The extra audio track is for compatibiloity purposes with QT players/mobile devices that do not/can't use the AC3 audio.

     

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  • MlchaelLAX Level 4 Level 4 (1,550 points)
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    May 12, 2012 6:27 PM (in response to Jon Walker)

    I can YouSendIt my sample file to you if you want to send me a communication at my profile name at America Online (AOL) dot com.

  • MlchaelLAX Level 4 Level 4 (1,550 points)
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    May 12, 2012 6:34 PM (in response to thomasmontalto)

    Tom: As you know I do not normally digitize at 1080i, but I noticed that my sample is at 29.97 fps while yours is at 59.94 (and my 720p's are also usually at 59.94).  I wonder how I got this 29.97 frame rate?

     

    Jon:  Would the AppleTV3 natively play these files if their original frame rate is 59.94, as is Tom's?  I am surprised that my sample came in at 29.97...

  • MlchaelLAX Level 4 Level 4 (1,550 points)
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    May 12, 2012 6:44 PM (in response to thomasmontalto)

    thomasmontalto wrote:

     

    ...I have no clue what intra, key frames, or final P- or B-Frames are.  So I am going to have to go google that...

    Historically on analog film, as the film stock was the succession of each frame moving at 24 fps and with persistence of vision, it gave us the effect of moving pictures. An editor could just use his blade to cut between frames at the point of edit.

     

    When commercial videotape first was introduced in the late 1950's, the frames were electronic and hence hidden from view.  Before large scale editing machines were developed later on, the editor actually dropped some oxide powder on the tape which would magnetically show the editor where the frame breaks were.

     

    When early uncompressed digital was developed the file sizes expanded geometrically.  This problem was solved with the various compression methods that have been developed in the last three decades: MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MPEG-4, etc.

     

    Compression algorithims looked at each frame and if effect threw out the common information for succeeding frames and kept the differential information, allowing for a savings of file space.  However this made editing much more complex.

     

    You can start with an article such as this, but at the end of the day, don't sweat the details, once experts like Jon tell you how to use the tools:

     

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_compression_picture_types

  • Jon Walker Level 6 Level 6 (17,520 points)
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    May 12, 2012 6:51 PM (in response to thomasmontalto)

    Well, someone sent me some directions on how to export from Stream Clip that made a 60GB file, but it kept it in sync.  So I figured if I could find a way to export directly to AppleTV 3, maybe it would keep the sync that way as well.

    File size is directly proportional to the data rate. (I.e., Data Rate x File Duration = Total File Size) Since you did not include the duration for the file in question, I cannot say whether this file is typical and/or meets requirement standards.

     

     

    If I may ask more about your post from earlier to try and help me.  I am not really sure where the settings are for Main or High Profile and Level 4 encodings.  I did what I thought were your settings and its taking forever, lol.  It also said for the 40 minute video it will be 7.5GB.

    MPEG Streamclip accesses the QT structure built-into the OS. As such it uses a context adaptive aproach to automatically set the Profile and Level as needed for the task you have set for it. In this case, a 40 minute clip with a file size of 7.5 GB would have a combined total average data rate of approximately 25 Mbps for both the audio and video data. This in turn would seem to imply that you did note enter a limit on the video data rate as I indicated you should—i.e., to try something in the 12-14 Mbps range initially to see how it worked and then you could possibly adjust the data rate up or down as may be desired to balance quality and target file size requirements as needed for your specific projects.

     

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  • Jon Walker Level 6 Level 6 (17,520 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 12, 2012 7:06 PM (in response to MlchaelLAX)

    I can YouSendIt my sample file to you if you want to send me a communication at my profile name at America Online (AOL) dot com.

    Don't believe you can send your sample file as an email attachment. Have sent you an email indicating upload instructions to my server area.

     

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    iMac, Mac OS X (10.7.3), 3.4 GHz Quad Core i7, 4 GB 1333 MHz
  • Jon Walker Level 6 Level 6 (17,520 points)
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    May 12, 2012 7:34 PM (in response to MlchaelLAX)

    Jon:  Would the AppleTV3 natively play these files if their original frame rate is 59.94, as is Tom's?  I am surprised that my sample came in at 29.97...

    If output is progressive, I assume the interlaced fields would be merged to a single fame and sent at half the interlaced frame rate. (I.e., did you delinterlace the 29.97 file in question?) Another possibility if using the newer TV2 HandBrake (or custom setting based on this preset) setting, the output frame rate is automatically limited to 30 fps or less.

     

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    iMac, Mac OS X (10.7.3), 3.4 GHz Quad Core i7, 4 GB 1333 MHz
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