Currently Being ModeratedMay 12, 2012 10:37 PM (in response to MlchaelLAX)
Looks GREAT! How did you accomplish the 59.94 to 24fps reduction?
As previously stated, I deinterlaced the content since it was 1080i to begin with. This this merged successive fields together reducing the 59.94 interlaced frame rate down to 29.97 progressive. Since I leave the detelecine switch active, the content was then processed to remove duplicate frames but vary the frame rate to maintin the original playback as close as possible. But remember that this may not work will all files. It depends on how the original content was recorded and how it was reprocessed for television playback.
If I can repeat that, I can convert my 720p - 59.94fps files to 24fps and they will run natively in the AppleTV1, which only runs 720p up to 25fps. Above that the maximum resolution is 540p, which is what I usually transcode to for my network of family & friends that I gifted classic AppleTV1's to...
I disconnected my TV1 device when I got the TV3 (and a 3D HDTV) for my main viewing area but also still have 3 TV2 devices active in my home. You know, of course that you can use anamorphic encodes to further reduce settings to meet playback limitations. I frequently us anamorphic encodes to simply save file space and even my 12 TB thunderbolt RAID (my iTunes content dedicated) unit is filling up faster than I like.
In any case, here are the settings I used on your file:iMac, Mac OS X (10.7.3), 3.4 GHz Quad Core i7, 4 GB 1333 MHz
Currently Being ModeratedMay 12, 2012 10:45 PM (in response to MlchaelLAX)
you should have the email with the download link for the mp4 by now...
File downloaded and tested. It opens in QT Player, QT 7 Pro Player, MPEG Streamclip, etc. Your software must be doing something that VLC is not doing correctly. Will have to wait until tomorrow to look at it in MPEG Streamclip as far as working out and testing a specific work flow as it is way past my bedtime now.iMac, Mac OS X (10.7.3), 3.4 GHz Quad Core i7, 4 GB 1333 MHz
Currently Being ModeratedMay 12, 2012 10:52 PM (in response to Jon Walker)
Jon Walker wrote:
I may have to run additional tests here. My normal work flow includes built in frame rate limitations and detelecine so most of my content ends up at 24 (23.976) fps. Test I made prior to first answer was a 24 fps source file so I did not have to worry about this. In fact, your 59.94 sample file using my normal work flow ended up as a 24 fps progressive file.
Still confused if you are referring to HandBrake or MPEG Streamclip for draw down to 24fps...
In any event; thank you for all this: a treasure trove of information.
PS: How are The All-Stars? I always loved "Shotgun!"
Currently Being ModeratedMay 12, 2012 10:59 PM (in response to MlchaelLAX)
Still confused if you are referring to HandBrake or MPEG Streamclip for draw down to 24fps...
I used HandBrake on your file since I could not open your re-wrapped data in MPEG Streamclip at that time. Screenshots I posted are also from HandBrake since it allows you to use the X264 codec with access to both the advanced user settings and the decomb/deinterlace with/without detelecine. As to previous message (which I cannot find at this time), yes, Detelecine-Default is one of the "On" modes. ("Custom" allows you to customize settings and "Off" is self-explanatory.) As to MPEG Streamclip and an MPEG Streamclip work flow, will look at that tomorrow.iMac, Mac OS X (10.7.3), 3.4 GHz Quad Core i7, 4 GB 1333 MHz
Currently Being ModeratedMay 12, 2012 11:10 PM (in response to MlchaelLAX)
and tomorrow, if you have time, let us know how to use anamorphic instead of fixed screen resolutions, to save file space...
Use is easy but may require a little planning before you decide on what size array to use.iMac, Mac OS X (10.7.3), 3.4 GHz Quad Core i7, 4 GB 1333 MHz
Currently Being ModeratedMay 13, 2012 10:32 AM (in response to Jon Walker)
One of Tom's files that were edited first in MPEG Streamclip and then transcoded with Handbrake and now has audio sync problems can be downloaded from here (redcarpet.mp4):
Right-click the file name to download.
Currently Being ModeratedMay 13, 2012 11:41 AM (in response to MlchaelLAX)
With regard to MPEG Streamclip editing...
1) H.264/AC3 MP4 file you provided has a number of Problems:
a) AC3 audio was only active on right-front channel (Not sure if this was normal or a setting problem in the software)
b) Video was macroblock pixelated in places (Software seems to be doing more to video than merely copying it to the MP4 container)
c) Believe the MP4 container is made "open" compatible with QT/MPEG Streamclip by modifying the PID (Which may be the reason for the loss of AC3 audio channels other than the front-right)
d) MPEG Streamclip v1.9.2 crashed periodically when editing the modified H.264/AC3 MP4 file you sent.
In short, editing the H.264/AC3 MP4 files created by the software you used did not provide the stability or quality I would normally expect in MPEG Streamclip. Here is a sample file in which I removed a 3-4 second segment to test editing ability. Remember, the pixelation here was in the source file and not a product of reducing the frame rate to 24 fps. 20120512_171323Source2Test.mp4
2) Editing the M2TS file after HandBrake conversion worked much better but has a serious keyframe problem:
Basically, HandBrake greatly reduces the intra-/keyframe frequency. So if you make arbitrary edits on difference frames and save the results using the "Save As..." option, you end up with frozen video or ghosting at the edit points until the next intra-/keyframe is played in output file.
3) Don't know what software you may have available, but for editing purposes, but I would suggest you consider investing in a commercial AVCHD converter app here.
a) I personally like VoltaicHD (available from the App Store for $19.99).
b) It is simple to use
c) It allows you to convert M2TS H.264/AC3 files to any available QT intermediate editing compression format available on your system
d) It includes a preference to convert the 1080i M2TS video to 1080p24 video
e) It also allows you to extract a copy of the AC3 audio track to a separate AC3 elementary stream if you desire.
In short, it is a very handy utility with many advantages. Unfortunately, having to compress the video to a frame editing intermediate compression format for editing and then re-compressing the edited content to your final TV3 file means a further increse in processing time. Still only the end user can determine if increased quality is worth the effort. In addition, while I believe it is even possible to create H.264/AAC/AC3 MOV or M4V files using this software, you would have to be a glutton for punishment to go through the extra steps this would require. In any case, here is a copy of the H.264/AAC MP4 file created using the VoltiacHD software for comparison with the same edited file in the previos link above. 20120512_171323ModSourceEdited.mp4
Since I did not know if you have access to any of the FCE/FCP "Pro" editing codecs, I used VoltiacHD to create an AIC (Apple Intermediate Codec) video with 16-Bit, 48.0 KHz sampling rate in an MOV file container for the editing phase in MPEG Streamclip. This video codec is part of the basic OS QT package so it is something that should be available to you already. In any event, am posting a copy of this file for you to "play with" so you can see how easy it is to edit in anything from MPEG Streamclip or QT 7 Pro to iMovie or GarageBand. 20120512_171323.mov
4) Update here.. Attempt to open an edited AIC/AC3 MOV file in HandBreak failed. (HandBrake considers this combination of codec and file container to be invalid.) So it looks like there is no easy way to both edit in MPEG Streamclip and create an H.264/AAC/AC3 MOV or M4V file. (May look into this further later but as this is not a biggie for my work flow and the H.264/AAC edited MP4 seems fine for TV3 playback, I am moving this to the proverbial "back burner" for now.)
5) With regard to anamorphic encodes, basic HandBrake strategy is as follows:
a) Open the M2TS file in HandBrake
b) Open the "Picture Settings/Size" window
c) Set width, height and cropping values as you normally would for a non-anamorphic encode
d) When satisfied, select the "Custom" Anamorphic settings to "lock in" desired display width
e) After the window expands with new options, decrease the original width value to the desired encode matrix width (As you do so, the window will automatically calculate/enter the correct PAR values required)
Generally speaking, do not play with any other settings in the "Custom" window once it has expanded unless you know what you are doing. What you are doing here basically is telling the app to encode your file at a lower width resloution but to display the file at its original dimensions. By "shaving" the width, you reduce the amount of data required to be encoded making the final file size smaller. Basically you should try some test encodes with some short duration files to determine what values best suit your needs. I.e., you want to find a "happy medium" between display quality and file size. I usually make the ecode matrix width about 80% of the display width but you can try higher and lower values to how much difference this makes. For example, I might encode a 1080p display file with an encode matrix width of 1536 or a 720p display file with an encoded matrix width of 1024. Try it and see what "floats your boat" here.iMac, Mac OS X (10.7.3), 3.4 GHz Quad Core i7, 4 GB 1333 MHz