1 3 4 5 6 7 Previous Next 90 Replies Latest reply: Feb 4, 2013 4:23 AM by Ciel-Michael Go to original post
  • 60. Re: Tascam US-122 with Lion
    Vasic Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Your argument is quite valid, but the problem is certainly not with Tascam/TEAC. Other makers aren't really any different than Tascam. Planned obsolescence is a concept invented way back in the 1930's, and has been working quite effectively for everyone; from car makers, to appliance makers, to tool makers, to consumer electronic manufacturers. Hardly anyone ever keeps a car for longer than 5 years. For that matter, not many household items live to be 9 years old and still in use. In that sense, our little hundred-dollar Tascam device fares rather well when compared to some other devices (such as cellphones, which cost twice as much, and live for about two years before being junked and replaced). While most of these things can technically continue to work beyond that initial replacement period, we as a society have been pretty much conditioned to expect to replace everything within a few short years. When we look at our little Tascam, I doubt we'll find others (M-Audio, PreSonus, Behringer, Alesis, MOTU...) any better, when it comes to providing software support for their hardware beyond the usual initial 3 to 5-year period.

     

    My little Tascam is often hooked up to an iBook G4, running Leopard, and is working quite fine. GarageBand does struggle on the anemic Motorola G4, though, but the laptop is 10 years old and it still works.

  • 61. Re: Tascam US-122 with Lion
    Jemster Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    > Your argument is quite valid, but the problem is certainly not with Tascam/TEAC

     

    Well, actually the problem is certainly with Tascam/TEAC. Saying its ok, others do the same thing, does not take the problem away from Tascam/TEAC.

     

    It is an industry wide problem, and encompasses lots of companies and technologies. An attitude change is required, someone needs to go first! I have a Vox TonelabSE. A superb multi-effects guitar pedal that has been superceded by others in the ToneLab range, but many would argue the SE has more natural sounds. Unfortunately Vox took this same attitude and never updated their software beyond PPC. As a result, Lion came along and killed my pedal sound management.

     

    I must agree that the way forward is to Open Source the support software for this hardware. It's not sustainable to keep pretending it's someone else's problem or use it as a driver for sales when the user is plenty happy with the capability of the product they've already bought. Even access to the source through NDA would be a great option if companies are worried about open sourcing their own IP.

     

    As the goes on, these problems become more widespread. I, luckily, have a 122L, but I'm sure the end is nigh for that box also... Although I don't want better than single channel 24kHz & MIDI I may be forced into an unnecessary purchase.

  • 62. Re: Tascam US-122 with Lion
    kiyyto Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    there is no reason why they cannot have it work. They simply don't want to, and I don't think there is any need to be fair to a company that is purposefully not updating a little bit of code in order to force the owner to buy another product.

     

    Yeah, you could stay on Snow Leopard, but they could also just update there **** drivers to work with the latest OS. They are still selling the unit. IF they were not selling the unit then I'd agree with you, but they are.

  • 63. Re: Tascam US-122 with Lion
    ohcheers Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Pah!

     

    Thanks both to Vasic and Jemster. Come the imminent apocalypse and consequent collapse of society we'll regret the non-fixability of these devices, and rue the day when General Motors invented planned obsolescence.

     

    For now I am pleased to take advantage of the minor reprieve by which I can run Snow Leopard in 32-bit mode and not have to replace my US-122.

     

    A US-122 which I bought as an early adopter in 2003, costing £179, I recall.

     

    Thats $275 in modern money. Not the hundred dollar unit suggested.

     

    Seems Windows users have had their own issues with the pesky device too...

     

    http://www.sevenforums.com/drivers/28708-tascam-us-122-a.html

    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en/w7itprohardware/thread/c7ab3efd-73 eb-4e09-ab86-dbe162b49e22

     

    Time to get nostalgic: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct03/articles/tascamus122.htm

     

    "Overall, the US122 gave me so little trouble that I find myself slightly short of things to say about it! Once installed, it pretty much just gets on with its job, and you soon forget it's there, which is probably how it should be. Its small size and rugged construction will doubtless recommend the US122 to laptop-based mobile producers and performers, while its ability to power itself and even to phantom-power mics without the need for an external PSU will be a bonus for people wanting to travel light. Equally, its small desktop footprint and combined MIDI and audio interfaces could make it an attractive solution for (for example) iMac-based home studios where an external device is a must and space is at a premium."

     

    Bye old friend

  • 64. Re: Tascam US-122 with Lion
    Vasic Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    kiyyto wrote:

     

    ...They are still selling the unit. IF they were not selling the unit then I'd agree with you, but they are.

        

    I believe you are mistaken. US-122 have been discontinued for about five-six years. They came out with US-122MKII and US-122L. The old silver-and-blue device hasn't been manufactured since well before OS X Tiger. I don't think any hardware manufacturer of today (be it printers, scanners, video capturing interfaces, video tuners, webcams, or audio interface) bothers to update drivers five years after they stopped making a specific model.

     

    I bought the device when it was on clearance (just about discontinued) in late 2005, for about $100 US. It served me very well and it is now going on eBay. If I fetch the expected $40 for it, with an added $50, I can get a similar new device, with 24bit 96kHz A/D and likely support for another five years. When I think about how this little one cost $250 in the US when it first came out, for the exact same money (almost 10 years later, which would make it some $330 in 2012 US dollars) one can get quite good 16-channel devices with 8 XLR inputs.

     

    We can complain to Tascam as much as we wish, but buying from another maker won't solve the problem, as the situation there will be exactly the same (check forums for old MOTU and M-Audio devices).

  • 65. Re: Tascam US-122 with Lion
    kiyyto Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    omg, you are ridic and completely wrong on many levels.

     

    yes, the 122 is nothing like the 122MKII, and the 122MKII is nothing at all like the 122L...

     

    : /

     

    Corporate shill much?

     

    Yeah, go ahead and get another Tascam. Be happy with your purchase that you made from a company which doesn't care about your business.

     

    I'll continue to buy from PreSonus and Focusrite, thnx very much. TASCAM lost me as a customer forever and I now know why every single rep at the music store said TASCAM is utter garbage. They weren't just pushing another brand, they were trying to be helpful.

  • 66. Re: Tascam US-122 with Lion
    Vasic Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I'm not sure what was it that motivated such reaction, but that's OK.

     

    I don't think I implied anywhere in my message that either of the devices were radically different, or similar, to each other. All I pointed out was that after US-122 was discontinued, the successor model was introduced. This is the practice that is religiously followed by literally EVERY company that manufactures things that are supposed to have a relatively short life span. We already discussed this, and it seems that we were all in agreement on that subject.

     

    Neither your PreSonus, nor your Focusrite (nor the others I had mentioned myself, MOTU, M-Audio) are any different (again, check forums for these two and you'll see discussions exactly like this one). As for store reps pushing brands other than Tascam, the only real reason is that their commission is greater on more expensive devices. All these devices are made in China, by same factories and under same conditions. Tascam used to be a reputable company long ago. Eventually, they moved their manufacturing to China and now they are no different than all those others (including MOTU, PreSonus, M-Audio, Alesis, Edirol/Roland...).

  • 67. Re: Tascam US-122 with Lion
    kiyyto Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    You are just wrong, about everything.

     

    You are limping together companies which support their products throughout their product lifespan, with TASCAM, which changes the name of a product by a letter and then stops supporting the product unless you buy it again.

     

    No, the sales reps were not trying to make a higher commission, they were honestly trying to be helpful by informing me that TASCAM *****. They told me TEAC is decent, but their consumer stuff is just garbage. I completely agree since the brand new US-800 I bought does not work with Lion and TASCAM has no plans to support it, ever.

     

    So regardless of what you think of their marketing schemes and however fair they are, TASCAM is not the same as any other company in the business, they are simply a poor choice, period.

     

    People have a right to be upset when the things they buy don't work. I have checked the PreSonus and Focusrite forums and in fact, Focusrite did update their drivers for their older saffire products so that he people who bought them could continue to use them. That is the difference between a company like Focusrite and a company like TASCAM.

     

    You can say that all companies are the same, but they aren't. TASCAM isn't even supporting Lion on some of the products they are currently selling. They are different because they suck, but you believe whatever you want.

  • 68. Re: Tascam US-122 with Lion
    Johnnybit Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    oookkk... caaaaaammoooooonnnnn, where is the ******** sense of common??¿?

     

    US122 it's a state of the art beautiful device that works perfectly through years, much better than the new devices from tascam (like surfaces control… I won't say more). It's solid, and agile, and portable, and IT WORKS JUST FINE. It's even a good marketing for them to keep them working.

     

    I replaced it with a worst and older M-AUDIO device, and it's working perfectly with Lion. After that I changed to a better one, Firewire M-Audio similar to US-122, older than the first one and older than the US-122 and they have drivers for Lion... too. O_o'

     

    The fact is tascam is aware of that conversation (for sure) and they are doing or saying nothing officially, and THAT COUNTS. I hope the competitors are reading it too and they will deliver a better services.

     

    I count on that, and like I said a few months ago… bye bye tascam...

  • 69. Re: Tascam US-122 with Lion
    ohcheers Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I would remark that Tascam have always been a bit of a "joke" brand. They used to make tape-based multitrackers for teenagers to record demos. Remember the 464? Hardly professional audio!

     

    And it's pretty obvious they're not interested in treating its users of digital products as adults.

     

    When I got the US-122 I was playing with Fruity Loops and the simplest Cubase available. These days I'm Apple and Logic all the way.

     

    When I do upgrade I'll be getting something a little more professional, from a brand with a better reputation.

     

    Perhaps the irony here is that we expected anything better from the joke that is Tascam.

  • 70. Re: Tascam US-122 with Lion
    Animo Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    It's interesting to see  that the discussion concerning this issue has reignited for some reason , since I' m suddenly receiving all these mails since I first commented  on this topic some time ago.

     

    The truth is , that it would have taken them little time and money for them to create a driver . On the other hand , we can still make work in 32 bit mode- so were safe for now.

     

    If we're are talking about plannned obsolescence :it just makes me think about the iMac my mother has been using for a few years that has well become obsolete.Now since she can't install lion on it and subsequently can't change to iCloud, she will either have to discontinue here email adress or get herself a new Mac. This is quite a stressful situation for her as she doesn't need a new Mac for her needs and she's used to the old (classical) keyboard.

     

    So we're on the wrong website here to complain about 'minor ' problems with Tascam.-(and I still agree !)

     

    Don't be surprised if this message is gone by tomorrow.

  • 71. Re: Tascam US-122 with Lion
    ohcheers Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Hopefully your message won't be gone tomorrow! I don't get why your mother will have to discontinue her email address...

     

    It's a bit of an irony that a company as fastidious as Apple, with its high design values, also embraces planned obsolescence. Perhaps Mr Jobs would have said that's progress and that we can't all stick in the past.

     

    STILL I think it's absurd that the US-122mkII is still supported when there's absolutely minimal difference to the first one! THAT is disrespect for the consumer. Arguably there was no need for the replacement.

     

    At least with the Apple Computer examples there's the changes are in orders of magnitude when you look at multiple successive revisions.

     

    Vasic's comment above was that when the US-122 came out I was on WinXP and a 2GHz P4, whereas now I may be using a multicore i7 processor and a very shiny MacBook. HOWEVER, the US-122mkII is still basically the same as its predecessor yet the predecessor is unsupported.

     

    It would be RESPECTFUL of Tascam to offer some sort of return and buyback deal to existing users of a perfectly functional US-122, as opposed to simply saying "F**k you" so we've no choice but buy a US-122mkII OR an alternative from a competitor.

     

    This is still wasteful, however, so why not simply update the driver?

     

    Moneygrabbing capitalism innit. At least Apple have been doing genuine innovation. If I had an Apple Computer from 10 years ago that needed replacing I wouldn't mind half as much.

     

    With Tascam it's a needless like-for-like replacement. Rather patronising and unprofessional.

  • 72. Re: Tascam US-122 with Lion
    Mark Dawes Level 1 Level 1 (35 points)

    Vasic wrote:

    "My little Tascam is often hooked up to an iBook G4, running Leopard, and is working quite fine. GarageBand does struggle on the anemic Motorola G4, though, but the laptop is 10 years old and it still works."

     

    Vasic, that contradicts your whole argument that we should all just accept planned obsolescence and buy new stuff. Not many 10 year old laptops still work or are upgradeable due to the speed at which technology advances. I'm glad your old laptop still works, and I think that's as it should be. My Tascam, however, still works but is being deliberately made obsolete by Tascam's intransigence - they neither wrote new drivers nor allowed open source developers to produce a working driver for these "legacy" products. If Les Paul had forced Gibson to stop making guitar strings, and stopped every other manufacturer from making guitar strings, would you be happy just to chuck away a perfectly good guitar because it was "out of date?"

     

    With respect, I don't know why you feel moved to endorse the activities of a company like Tascam when people like you and me end up paying twice and the planet gets more space junk to bury.

  • 73. Re: Tascam US-122 with Lion
    Vasic Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    kiyyto wrote:

     

    People have a right to be upset when the things they buy don't work. I have checked the PreSonus and Focusrite forums and in fact, Focusrite did update their drivers for their older saffire products so that he people who bought them could continue to use them. That is the difference between a company like Focusrite and a company like TASCAM.

    I am not entirely sure why is there this very strong bias against Tascam; perhaps because they aren't from the US or UK. Whatever the reason, it certainly is NOT because they are any worse than competition. The Focusrite interface used as an argument simply doesn't hold water. The device is much newer than a 9-year old US-122, so one would normally expect them to still provide support. Presonus's 'Firestation', which came out about the same time as US-122, has been abandoned by Presonus a while ago, just like Tascam's US-122. M-Audio's first firewire interface (Firewire 410) actually came out two years after US-122, and latest driver is 3 years old (won't work on Lion). And by the way, the difference between 122, 122L and 122mkII isn't trivial. Functionally, they may appear the same, but the chipset is different (USB1 vs. USB2; 48kHz vs.96kHz; additional S/PDiF, etc), so crafting a 64-bit driver isn't just a two-hour re-compiling job.

     

    I simply don't see any objective evidence that any other manufacturer is better than Tascam. There certainly are better devices that Tascam's US-122 series out there (after all, Tascam's products are still cheaper than the competition), but as far as planned obsolescence is concerned, Tascam isn't any worse than the rest of them.

     

    In the end, the decision which to purchase hinges mainly on the quality of the device vs. the price paid. If you want the cheapest, go for Tascam; if you want better quality, there are more expensive devices. But don't expect drivers for the latest OS, eight years down the road, just because you paid big bucks. From what I can see here, M-Audio devices may offer the best bang for the buck (price vs. quality). However, if you desperately need 8 XLR inputs, and can't spend more than $200, Tascam is the only interface you'll find. You'll get exactly what you paid for.

     

    My US-122 has worked well over the years. As I said, it is going on eBay. The next device may or may not be another Tascam, but the decision will be on price vs. quality/features, since support is pretty much the same across the board.

  • 74. Re: Tascam US-122 with Lion
    Vasic Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Mark Dawes wrote:

     

    With respect, I don't know why you feel moved to endorse the activities of a company like Tascam when people like you and me end up paying twice and the planet gets more space junk to bury.

    I think I made myself clear earlier (above) when I agreed that the argument about planned obsolescence is ceratinly valid. And I've been moderately successful at fighting the trend myself (squeezing as much life as possible from every Mac I ever owned, as well as every other piece of hardware). What I'm arguing here is that we simply do NOT have much choice here, and none of those other companies that make audio hardware (MOTU, M-Audio, Roland/Edirol, Behringer, Focusrite, PreSonus, Alesis, etc, etc) are any better than Tascam, with respect to their embracing planned obsolescence and limiting support for older hardware. I am definitely NOT endorsing Tascam's "activities" (or lack thereof) any more than for any other maker out there.

     

    At least acoustic instruments have a longer lifespan, so we don't  have to keep buying our upright pianos, or French horns, or bass guitars every five years...

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