7 Replies Latest reply: Jul 24, 2012 11:11 AM by Terry Fundak
Peter Roberts1 Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)

In the past, if I didn't move forward when Apple moved forward, all that happened was that I did not have access to new features.

 

This time, with the demise of MobileMe and the introduction of iCloud, if I don't move forward I lose features, but even worse, even if I do move forward, I still lose features.

 

In particular, the lack of syncronization under iCloud of Mail's Rules, Accounts, and Smart Mailboxes means that on our several machines I have to manually do updates multiple times, which of course leads to multiple mistakes.

 

In my view, what Apple has done has the look and feel of customer abuse, something usually attributed to another large tech company.  I can't avoid losing functionality, whether or not I move forward with Apple.

 

The word disgraceful comes to mind.

 

Is there a good reason for Apple's policies that concern Mail-feature synchronization?  I'd like to hear them.

  • 1. Re: Why is Apple downgrading sync support for Mail with iCloud?
    Julian Wright Level 7 Level 7 (34,840 points)

    Apple have not said why they are removing certain features and we are not supposed to speculate here.

     

    However, neither did they ever promise that all features would remain the same or exist forever. This is laid out in the MobileMe Terms of Use you agreed to when subscribing.

     

    You can send feedback to Apple about this here: http://www.apple.com/feedback/icloud.html but you're a bit late to make any difference now. These changes were announced over a year ago, and MobileMe shuts down forever in 4 days.

  • 2. Re: Why is Apple downgrading sync support for Mail with iCloud?
    Peter Roberts1 Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)

    Thanks for responding, Julian.

     

    Apple have not said why they are removing certain features and we are not supposed to speculate here.

     

    In a tech forum this is an amusing appeal to what I normally associate with religious orthodoxy.  We are not supposed to speculate here, not supposed to seek further understanding?  Well, in the absence -- deliberate, mind you -- of information from Apple on matters that actually concern its users, so-called speculation is all we have as we seek to understand what Apple is doing and why it is doing it.  Maybe if I understood why Apple has removed a feature that is very important for us, then I might even feel better about it.

     

    However, neither did they ever promise that all features would remain the same or exist forever. This is laid out in the MobileMe Terms of Use you agreed to when subscribing.

     

    Because of the terms of use to which all users "agreed", Apple has no legal obligation to avoid making decisions that negatively affect its users.  That is certainly true.  Of course all these "agreements" that users sign every day are actually not agreements at all; they are just legal firewalls.  Such "agreements" are simply one-sided legal frameworks in which users have not participated in any sort of negotiation.  Usually what is meant by agreement is a negotiated understanding.  The "agreements" we sign every day to use various digital services (or banking services, for that matter) are not negotiated understandings.  They are of the form, "our way or the highway".

     

    Anyway, all that aside, Apple has built its reputation on ease of use, reliability and stability, and -- drum roll -- user friendliness.  In deleting several Mail synchronization features, Apple is violating its own goal of ease of use as well as user friendliness.  In my opinion, until recently Apple has earned its money the right way by offering superior equipment and services to its customers. But now, again in my opinion, it is beginning to act in the manner of the stereotypical large corporation; that is, do whatever you can get away with to increase the bottom line for the corporation itself and its shareholders (full disclosure: I am an Apple shareholder).  This is not a good path for Apple to be walking, not good for its users and not good for Apple.

     

    You can send feedback to Apple about this here:http://www.apple.com/feedback/icloud.html but you're a bit late to make any difference now. These changes were announced over a year ago, and MobileMe shuts down forever in 4 days.

     

    Some time ago I read that Tim Cook would actually pay attention to (selected) emails with customer concerns, and so I'm actually not a bit late in complaining.  I went right to the top months ago, but as is common with the stereotypical large corporation, and now Apple, I was totally ignored.

  • 3. Re: Why is Apple downgrading sync support for Mail with iCloud?
    Julian Wright Level 7 Level 7 (34,840 points)

    We are not supposed to speculate here, not supposed to seek further understanding?

     

    What is the point in speculating? All it does is lead to misinformation being put out, a lot of which ends up being taken as fact by those who don't realise it is just speculation. Speculating on unproven facts does not lead to understanding. If you don't know the true reason for something, how can you understand it?

     

    And Apple aren't saying you can't speculate at all - just not here, on Apple's official forums where people might read more into it being on Apple's own site. We're Apple's guests on these forums so like you would as a guest in someone's house, you abide by the rules. There are plenty of other forums where Apple users can discuss rumours and speculate on the unknown as much as they like.

     

    The "agreements" we sign every day to use various digital services (or banking services, for that matter) are not negotiated understandings.  They are of the form, "our way or the highway".

     

    Exactly, and if you don't agree with it. Don't use it. Nobody is holding a gun to your head. MobileMe and iCloud and all the other services Apple offers are optional. Nobody has to use them.

     

    I went right to the top months ago, but as is common with the stereotypical large corporation, and now Apple, I was totally ignored.

     

    Just because you didn't receive a reply, doesn't mean your email was not considered. How many emails a day do you think the CEOs of the worlds largest companies get? They can't read and reply to all of them - probably not even 1% - and I bet a large majority are from barely literate people making unrealistic demands or writing rubbish that simply isn't worth replying to. You'd be very lucky if your email happened to arrive at just the time when the CEO was looking at a few emails, and had the time to consider and write a reply.

     

    And making requests via email to a CEO isn't like a drive-thru restaurant where they take your order and immediately do as you asked (shareholder or not).

  • 4. Re: Why is Apple downgrading sync support for Mail with iCloud?
    Peter Roberts1 Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)

    Julian Wright wrote:

     

    We are not supposed to speculate here, not supposed to seek further understanding?

     

    What is the point in speculating? All it does is lead to misinformation being put out, a lot of which ends up being taken as fact by those who don't realise it is just speculation. Speculating on unproven facts does not lead to understanding. If you don't know the true reason for something, how can you understand it?

     

    I should not have picked up on the word, speculate, which you introduced in your first reply to me.  These are called Apple Support Communities, after all, and so I was hoping there was a reader somewhere who knew more about the tech world, in particular Apple's world, than I do, and was also someone who could shed light on why Apple has taken the path it has taken.

     

     

    And Apple aren't saying you can't speculate at all - just not here, on Apple's official forums ... . We're Apple's guests on these forums so  ... you abide by the rules.

     

     

    So, I checked the Terms of Use, and of course, you are correct. Apple wants no criticism of their policies on the Apple Support Communities forums.  The ASC forums are operated on Apple's dollar, and hence they have the right to manage the forums as they see fit.

     

     

    The "agreements" we sign every day to use various digital services (or banking services, for that matter) are not negotiated understandings.  They are of the form, "our way or the highway".

     

    Exactly, and if you don't agree with it. Don't use it. Nobody is holding a gun to your head. MobileMe and iCloud and all the other services Apple offers are optional. Nobody has to use them.

     

     

    I'm disappointed that you used the gun-to-your-head argument, because it stands out as sophmoric, especially in the light of your other observations.  Today's corporations do everything they can to insulate themselves from legal actions of disgruntled customers.  Some of that is understandable because of the litigious nature of our society.  But the one sided agreements, tantamount to sign and we play, otherwise we take our ball and bat and go home, are in fact a de facto coercion to sign.  Were we all to say, No, to such agreements, our society would have to return to the pre-transistor era.  In order to live in our modern society, we have to sign.

     

     

    I went right to the top months ago, but as is common with the stereotypical large corporation, and now Apple, I was totally ignored.

     

    Just because you didn't receive a reply, doesn't mean your email was not considered. ...

     

    And making requests via email to a CEO isn't like a drive-thru restaurant where they take your order and immediately do as you asked (shareholder or not).

     

    As a matter of logic, the fact that someone does not answer one's letter does not mean that the letter was not read or considered.  As a matter of probability, however, it is quite likely that the letter was ignored or read and ignored, especially since CEO's of large corporations have a staff to handle things like this.  I wrote to Cook because it was reported that he paid attention.

     

    And thanks for educating me on the difference between a CEO and a drive-thru restaurant.

     

    Well, in keeping with the ASC Terms of Use, I'm not supposed to be talking about any of this.  So with due deference to the Terms, over and out.

  • 5. Re: Why is Apple downgrading sync support for Mail with iCloud?
    Terry Fundak Level 2 Level 2 (150 points)

    I find your comments really troubling and I find the questions asked by Peter Roberts1 very fair.

     

    I too am really confused as to what Apple is doing .... iCloud is giving me problems in lots of areas and MobileMe was meeting many needs. I have no idea why Apple seems to be making what to me appear really bad decisions about it's 4 round of "cloud" offering.

     

    I have weathered all of the changes up to now and found the weathering sometimes troublesome but in the end useful because they gave me something valuable. I am totally unclear that the current feature of iCloud and the problems I am having even understanding my issues is really not what I would consider "normal" Apple friendly to end users behavior.

     

    Examples: I cannot add more than one iCloud account to a machine for the purposes of Back to my Mac and Find my Mac. I cannot even get "Back to my Mac" to work on multiple machines because I am missing the recovery partition because I copied my Lion partition from one Hard Disk to another and the recovery partition is "hidden" and not straight forward to add even with 2nd Tier Tech Support by Apple Engineering. I am having difficulty on a 1) Brand New MacBook Pro, 2) on many other macs of various vintages. The problems have gotten very time consuming since MobileMe stopped.

     

    I now have duplicates galore in my AddressBook..... It wasn't like this last week, for unknow reasons. But when I attempt to combine them I cannot because now I have an AddressBook "On My Mac" and a different one in "iCloud". I do not know which one is syncing or how or why I have two that do not sync together.

     

    Regarding Cost. I paid my $100/year for MobileMe and did not complain. I would love to pay it again and have the same capability as before or know what I should do moving forward.

     

    Thus, I would like to hear what other are experiencing and what alternatives they have come up with..... better.... I would like to understand what I can expect as a path forward in the cloud by Apple, Inc. and then I will have a better idea of what to do to get back to efficent use of my various Apple devices.

     

    I am a LONG LONG time user of Apple Products and I serious wonder whether I need to think about stopping the use of Apple products and/or services for various of my needs. But I would like to hear what other are doing and how they are dealing with the current change.

     

    I seriously do not come to the Apple forums to hear from attorney's and to read the fine print when I am looking to community help and solutions to real world problems that have to do with changes that I didn't vote for.

  • 6. Re: Why is Apple downgrading sync support for Mail with iCloud?
    Julian Wright Level 7 Level 7 (34,840 points)

    If you actually have a technical question that somebody here can answer, feel free to ask it.

     

    If you have just come here to whinge about changes, or ask questions that nobody here can answer, such as "why" Apple has done certain things (which is what Peter was doing) - don't bother posting.

     

    Unless Apple has announced their future plans publicly we don't know what you can "expect as a path forward in the cloud by Apple Inc.". Asking us to speculate is a sure-fire way of getting your posts deleted by the forum hosts.

     

    Regarding your points:

     

    1) You have never been able to add more than one account for Back to my Mac purposes. Why would you need to? It is called "Back to MY Mac" and all YOUR Macs should be sharing the same iCloud account.

     

    2) You'll need to install Lion properly to get the recovery partition. That is not a fault with iCloud - it is a fault with your chosen non-standard installation method.

     

    3) Apple gave 13 months notice of MobileMe's end. Leaving the changes until after MobileMe has shut down will make it more time consuming to resolve.

     

    4) Only the "iCloud" Address Book syncs with iCloud. The "On my Mac" group is just on your Mac - hence the name. You can drag and drop contacts from one group to the other. Or if all your contacts are in iCloud, just delete the On my Mac ones completely.

     

    5) There is no option for a paid version of iCloud services. You are now $100 a year better off.

     

    6) For me, personally, iCloud has worked just as well as MobileMe since I started using it whilst it was in beta. The discontinued features (iDisk and hosting) I didn't use as they did not offer the features I needed anyway.

     

    As you haven't specifically mentioned what your needs are and (apart from the Address Book dupes) what actual issues you are having its rather difficult to suggest what you need to do. Perhaps if you start a new thread of your own detailing the issues clearly one-by-one people here will be able to help.

  • 7. Re: Why is Apple downgrading sync support for Mail with iCloud?
    Terry Fundak Level 2 Level 2 (150 points)

    Julian,

     

    My response to you was to perhaps help you recognize user pain instead of trying to be more knowledgable about the ways of Apple by by pointing to ULAs. Many of us have a few apples or trees of apples in our kingdoms.... :-)

     

    There are reasons to have waited until the last minute to transition to iCloud ( though I too tested in the beta days a year ago... ) ... I am in fact still waiting on an important ( to me ) application developer to find a way to provide sync of application data that MobileMe is gone. Not everyone knows that MobileMe had a mechanism of syncing NONE-APPLE data. And because of Apple's practices - Apple has not been completely open and some developers ( senior developers ) - we ( the Users ) are still not able to transition complete. And yes, I do blame Apple over the end-user for this, due to Apple communcations patterns and culture and do to significant changes and problems with iCloud.

     

    Please don't blame the users - particularly not on a community forum. Listen to the pain.

     

    Thank for reading what I wrote but perhaps you can re-read it, now that you know why I wrote it.

     

    Terry