1 33 34 35 36 37 Previous Next 803 Replies Latest reply: Jul 9, 2014 9:24 PM by hperassi Go to original post Branched to a new discussion.
  • 510. Re: Dual monitors and fullscreen fiasco, is there a work around?
    NiqueXyZ Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    You will be much better off running Ubuntu and then running OS X in a virtual machine.

  • 511. Re: Dual monitors and fullscreen fiasco, is there a work around?
    NorrinRadd Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Good luck with that. As of the late 2011 macs, the EFI bootloader does not allow operating systems to boot that do not match a certain signature: the same thing MSFT plans for ARM computers running Windows 8. Welcome to the brave new world.

  • 512. Re: Dual monitors and fullscreen fiasco, is there a work around?
    NiqueXyZ Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I have several mac pros at work that run Windows Server 2008 R2 and RHEL -- they boot just fine.

    I hold down the option key and I get drives that show up with "Windows" logos on them -- I know which ones they are because they come up in order every time -- but honestly I could just use reFIT -- but I'm too lazy for that.

  • 513. Re: Dual monitors and fullscreen fiasco, is there a work around?
    Scott Halliday Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I absolutely agree with your point about  multiple displays being a key to workflow productivity. As a software developer and I.T. Manager, for most of my career I have been using Windows to run multiple display configurations, and prior to that, OS2 WARP. 

     

    Over the last two years I have been slowly migrating over to Apple products starting with the iPhone then iPad. Late last year I took the plunge and purchased the 2011 Mac Mini server which I used to drive my two 24" monitors. From the beginning, I found the Lion multiple display setup more time consuming and difficult to use because it was limited to displaying one menu app bar at a time on only one monitor instead of displaying each menu app bar within the application window itself. For development work this is not only annoying but also time-consuming since i found myself constantly having to drag the mouse over to the monitor running the app menu bar dispite the app running in a different window on a different monitor. imo each app window needs to have its own app menu bar within that window in order for it to be efficient and easy to use. Dare I say, like Windows.

     

    Where I am still learning the Lion operating system, I figured it was a simple configuration setting which I still had not been able to figure out yet. Last Saturday I dropped by our local BestBuy store and explained the issue to the Apple guy. At first he told me it would be easy to do but once he tested using multiple displays, he was very surprised that he ran into the same problem. After a quick search of this forum he came across this thread which confirmed the issue was for real. He said it looked a bug within Lion OS that at some point would be fixed and then emailed me a link to this thread. The best thing to come out of our discussion was that he sold me a new Apple 27" thunderbolt display for $849.

     

    Having read all of the posts in this thread it appears that is no fix in the works for this issue and there may never be. As strange as this seems to me, Apple may even see this as some type of feature. I would think that even if they did, they would also provide an option to allow the app menu bars to display within each application window. If for no other reason than to improve the effecency and ease of use for those using multiple displays for such things as software development.

     

    Now that I know this is not a bug but in fact a limitation of the operating system, I will be using my Mac Mini with it's 27" display mostly for entertainment  purposes such as running iTunes and surfing the web. For doing work such as software development, I am looking to purchase a new i7 Windows 7 PC to drive my three 24" monitors.

     

    Glad I found this forum and look forward to enjoying all of my Apple products.

  • 514. Re: Dual monitors and fullscreen fiasco, is there a work around?
    da bishop Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Well... the menu bar being at the top of the screen really dates back to the much older co-operative multitasking roots of System 5 or 6, when the screen completely switched from application to application, and you had to pop a floppy disk in each time you switched from "system" to your application using switcher and multifinder.  Multitasking is much newer than the foundations of the macintosh UI. There used to be a little icon in the top right hand corner in System 7 and 8 called the application menu, which you used to tell which application you were in, and to navigate to a different application. That's been replaced by the dock in OSX, but the menu bar used to function as the application switcher as well.

     

    It is possible for menus to be put into the title bar of the window, but that is the prerogative of the developer. Logic Pro, for example, has some menus in the menu bar, and some – those contextual to each window – in the window's title bar. Application commands are not necessarily contextual to a window. In MacOS, the viewport is considered to be the limits of the application's effects, rather than the window edges.

     

    I think the top menu bar was retained in MacOS because of a few reasons:

     

    #1: backwards compatibility with existing applications · the title bar is customised in many apps, but the menus are assumed to always live in the menu bar. In OSX, they kept it familiar for the trad users, and it's a good way to tell which application or window has focus. Logically, you only have one application running, rather than a separate application for each document, so the menu bar is never duplicated unnecessarily. In the Finder, for example, with lots of windows open it would be very annoying to have lots of menu bars everywhere.

     

    #2: since the menus spawn themselves downwards, and windows can be smaller than the menu bar, or positioned on the screen in ways that would cause the menus to overflow, the menu bar is most ideally placed at the top of the screen. English reads top to bottom, right to left, the menu bar follows that structure.

     

    #3: the mouse can easily be relocated to the top of the screen by trying to drive it off the edge, just throw the mouse in that direction and it'll end up on the edge. It's convenient to have important UI features positioned on the edge of the screen, such as the dock. If you start using a tablet or pen interface, where the screen edges aren't the strongest UI area as with a mouse, but instead the weakest, the dock and the menu bar become much harder to access. In aircraft systems, touch screens tend to have buttons down the edges to replace this easy-access screen edges feature.

  • 515. Re: Dual monitors and fullscreen fiasco, is there a work around?
    Trane Francks Level 2 Level 2 (210 points)

    Welcome, Scott.

     

    There are various utilities listed in the thread that should enable you to have menus atop each of your screens as well as a popup menu for the app wherever your cursor is located. The latter one especially would take the pain away from your preferred menu in an app window paradigm. The rest of it amounts to either using 3rd-party apps that dispense with Lion's own fullscreen API implementation or simply not putting apps fullscreen. It's a workaround and 35 pages of posts later, we're all in agreement that it's not ideal.

     

    I will say one thing as a developer: If you've got requirements to run Windows, Parallels Desktop does a beautiful job of enabling you to run Windows fullscreen on one desktop while you interact with OS X on your others. For me, it has been unimaginably productivity enhancing compared to a dual-boot or multiple-system way of working.

     

    Oh, and a final word about fullscreen: I just tried the Windows 8 CP and, yikes, ALL Metro apps run fullscreen. I really can't fathom why OS designers these days have fixated on the idea that people don't want access to multiple applications on the same desktop. IMO, it's a phone UI paradigm. On the desktop, it's a square peg being pounded into a round hole.

  • 516. Re: Dual monitors and fullscreen fiasco, is there a work around?
    Trane Francks Level 2 Level 2 (210 points)

    da bishop wrote:

     

    "English reads top to bottom, right to left, the menu bar follows that structure."

     

    The English I learned reads left to right. Maybe you meant the OTHER right to left?

  • 517. Re: Dual monitors and fullscreen fiasco, is there a work around?
    da bishop Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Quite right. Left. I mean right. I mean...

     

    Persian? Yiddish? Etruscan?

     

    Chinese can go in either direction.

  • 518. Re: Dual monitors and fullscreen fiasco, is there a work around?
    nomizzz Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    As a recent convert to the Mac OS after over 15 years of being a dedicated Windows and Linux software developer, I want to add to the public outcry for this absolutely critical feature that has long been perfected in almost every other mainstream operating system out there.

     

    I love my Macbook, I love Xcode, and I love developing software for Mac products, but it's simply not worth my time it if they make stubborn, terrible design decisions like this one that ruin people's workflow.  No matter what rationalizations/thinking went into this implementation, there's simply no excuse for not being able to fullscreen xcode and run an iOS simulator in the space next to it.  Same thing applies to having a word processor on one screen and your outline/specs in another and hundreds of other use cases.

     

    Apple engineers, if you're listening out there, please fix this ASAP!

  • 519. Re: Dual monitors and fullscreen fiasco, is there a work around?
    simoneisner Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Yep - I have to just say the same as you nomizzz.  In my last post someone suggested mentioning this to Apple Support, but my MacBook is out of warranty and I'd have to pay for a support ticket - so I left it alone.  Anyways I have to think that Apple must be monitoring these communities to some extent - so here's hoping.

     

    Well - like I said my computer's now out of warranty and while it's working well now, I came over to Mac for two reasons:  recording, usability and integration.  Based on these reasons to switch over to Mac, I have very little reason to buy a Mac as my next computer. 

     

    My recording software of choice is currently Logic but it has not had a serious updat in so long, many are wondering if Apple is even continuing to develop it. 

     

    In terms of usability, aside from the issue in this thread there are many others mentioned in these communities.

     

    And as for integration between the iPhone, apps and iTunes - well - Windows 7 is now stable and works well as an operating system.  Windows 8 is supposedly even better, so between that and Android I should be able to make do.  In addition Microsoft communicates with its user community.  Apple being mum about future releases was always fine - as long as they were releasing better and better products.  But taking useable features out and then not saying anything leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth - considering I had to buy Lion to get iCloud.

     

    So  - Apple - please get it together.  While I do love my Mac (loved it more with Snow Leopard) I don't want to switch back to PC - mainly because I don't want to switch recording software - but I will if I have to.  I figure I've got another year left on this computer so here's hoping!

  • 520. Re: Dual monitors and fullscreen fiasco, is there a work around?
    jhaile Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    It's awful that the full screen "bug" is sticking around in Mountain Lion. Seriously apple - fix this!

  • 521. Re: Dual monitors and fullscreen fiasco, is there a work around?
    CT Level 6 Level 6 (15,515 points)

    Please Apple, DON'T listen to them! Don't "fix" it! Leave it be!

  • 522. Re: Dual monitors and fullscreen fiasco, is there a work around?
    tamimat Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    When I started using Lion and Full Screen I was like "Huh, I can't use my second screen" Really really anyoing.

  • 523. Re: Dual monitors and fullscreen fiasco, is there a work around?
    CT Level 6 Level 6 (15,515 points)

    Can't confirm!

  • 524. Re: Dual monitors and fullscreen fiasco, is there a work around?
    Trane Francks Level 2 Level 2 (210 points)

    CT wrote:

     

    Please Apple, DON'T listen to them! Don't "fix" it! Leave it be!

     

    Why on earth would you suggest that forced disabling of secondary displays -- with no way of enabling them -- is a Good Thing? If this is some myopic "Apple knows best" thinking, I've got news for you: Apple doesn't.

     

    OS X has wonderful multitasking performance capacity. By shifting the UI to focus on a single-app paradigm, the functional potential of the operating system (and, ergo, its user) is greatly diminished. A wake to mourn the loss of this functionality will be held at the church on Sunday. Lattes will be served and free WiFi available.

     

    Edited to mourn the loss of my proofreading skills.

1 33 34 35 36 37 Previous Next