Currently Being ModeratedAug 4, 2012 1:44 PM (in response to dtigerbme)
ditigerbme, I think you meant me, Karl. Yes, Time Machine is fine. The big difference between a clone and TM backup is that a clone is bootable. The most important information to backup is your information. An operating system is always available by purchase. You can't purchase your data back when it is lost. So have a backup of it. If you use Time Machine that's great.
Currently Being ModeratedAug 5, 2012 10:46 AM (in response to dtigerbme)
Hello Karl, You seem very knowledgeable about Macs and backing up. So following your suggestion, I have backed up in Time Machine and have also downloaded Carbon Copy Cloner to make a clone of my harddrive, acually, I am doing this for both Imacs. I have a brand new Imac 2012 and an older IMac, 24inch (which I love) and gave to my husband. This was the one with the problem. I have backed this one up through Time Machine as well. Now I would like to also have a clone of the Hard Drive to create a bootable drive for just in case. I do not want to risk going through what we almost went through and definitely need this security.
According to CCC, I need to clone to a Bootable Drive. I have a GLYPH 2T on the 2012 IMac and I have a GLYPH 500G and a GDrive on the 2008 IMac. Are the GLYPHS bootable for the IMacs? Also, do I need to partition the harddrives? Especially since they are also used for Time Machine back-ups? Just want to make sure that I do it right!
And on another note. What do you think about Antivirus software?
(I hope I have not asked too too many questions?!!!)
Currently Being ModeratedAug 5, 2012 2:28 PM (in response to dtigerbme)
Hi DtigerBme, I don't think about anti-virus software. Never got a virus, and I have been using the UNIX operating system ever since engineering school. I switched from Sun to Mac when mac switched to UNIX. I just occasionally see in the technology news section of news.google.com a virus reported that might affect Mac. I consider how wide spread it is, to consider if I should worry. Then I look for links to instructions how to check if I have the virus and how to remove it. I've done that a couple times, and never found I had one. There haven't been enough viruses targeting mac to make me afraid.
I see on Amazon there is a Firewire 800 version of that Glyph 2T. That port should be about twice as fast as USB 2.0. So you can backup faster.
I cloned just Snow Leopard from my working computer using CCC, to my formatted "un-repairable" drive, from my working computer. That was about 4GB. I did that so that I wouldn't have to transfer the 550 GB of my personal account backup which took a long time over USB 2.0. That way I wouldn't waste a lot of time on my "unrepairable" drive. After it booted Snow Leopard, Disk Repair repaired it, and ML installed, then I spent the time restoring my personal account data.
I am not recommending this way of restoring. My backup was a CCC copy to a drive with Time Machine backups. I used the UNIX "rsync" command to restore to a new account I made with my same username. I did have user id (UID) issues on some directories but corrected them with the "chown" UNIX command. I did it the hard way, but I knew UNIX could do the job, even if I had to look some things up.
I just googled "ccc multiple clones on drive". Partition for bootable clones.
Time machine can backup multipe computers to the same drives without partitions. There is also a work around to make a bootable volume on Time machine according to Kenny. Apple's backup model is restore the operating system from an install disk or USB to boot up, then restore your data. That works until you need to restore an OS that you downloaded. So it would be good to have a bootable clone of the OS to keep that method going.
Or you can use apple's tool to make a USB recovery disk or boot DVD.
The recovery drive only requiers 1GB. Which is great for a cheap USB thumb drive.
If you have a recovery disk, I think Time Machine works fine.
I think the choice of backup would really come down to is which is going to back up your system at increments you want. I think Time Machine ore CCC will.
Personally I like the idea of a bootable recovery disk. It would have been great for me because then maybe I could have fixed my disk and not had to have copied, formatted, cloned an OS to it, then restored my data.
CCC restore will allow you to not copy the Users directory to avoid that though. So you should be able to restore just the OS without all you personal data, to see if your drive works.
Currently Being ModeratedAug 5, 2012 3:17 PM (in response to dtigerbme)
The reason I used CCC was I knew CCC would preserve the directory structure and so I could restore my data with UNIX rsync. (I don't think rsync will work with Time Machine.) I wanted more than one way to recover the data. (I could have used rsync to backup the data though.)
I may continue using using Time Machine, though I don't know how to rsync off of it.
Personally I think, as a UNIX guy, I should backup with rsync, but Time Machine made it easy. The problem I have with Time Machine is I have never had to recover from it. So I only have experience writing with it, except for recovering a few files I destroyed.
I will definitely make a Lion Recovery drive on a thumb drive.
This guy, Hirassh, had a problem with Time Machine freezing during a recovery due to a disk error. So the real problem was the disk. However, it seems to me it is also falt tolerance. He says check and fix the disk after every backup. http://blog.hiraash.org/2011/07/26/do-your-time-machine-backups-really-work/ A UNIXy solution would be to run fsck in a chron job. If I am going to do that, I might as well backup with rsync in the same cron job.
Currently Being ModeratedAug 6, 2012 6:10 AM (in response to Karl Ihrig)
Wow, SO MUCH information, but I think I am getting the jist of it all. I can either back-up with CCC or Time Machine. Now the 1G Recovery Drive for Mountain Lion is quite useful it seems. What would be the benefit of usine Time Machine AND CCC?
The IMac 2008 and the IMac 2012 are not sharing the same back-up external hard-drives.
IMac 2008 has an external GDrive250G and GLYPH 500G, which are not bootable with CCC. So I have decided to use Time Machine with this machine and the Recovery Drive. Now I am trying to understand why you asked me to do this:
Let's try this recepie for you:
Start in Single User Mode. Power on while holding the Command + S keys.
At the prompt, type "fsck_hfs -fy" or "fsck -fy" and hit return.
Do it again.
Enter the command "reboot".
I think it is for fixing the harddrive. Please explain.
Again, thanks for all your incredible help and knowledge!
Debre (aka DtigerBme)
Currently Being ModeratedAug 6, 2012 3:20 PM (in response to dtigerbme)
Yes the quote of my instructions are for fixing the hard drive. It should do the same repair as Disk Utility.
Well I am not being concise about backups because I am researching about your questions. For me as long as I can recover a backup with the UNIX rsync command (which gives me an alternative, should the program not work for some reason or I want to move to another UNIX or Linux machine) the backup program is good enough for me. It just so happens rsync will recover from both CCC and Time Machine backups.
So either is fine. The important thing is to have a backup. I am inclined to use Time Machine because it comes with OS X and works.
I don't see the point of replacing Time Machine with rsync, but this blog shows I can make an rsync recovery from it.
The benefits of using both TM and CCC would be to have two backups in two methods. Not sure it is worth the effort and learning curve. If you used CCC to make a boot volume, that backup would be bootable. You could make two backup coppies with time machine.
Currently Being ModeratedAug 7, 2012 12:53 AM (in response to spritrig)
Finally!!! After loooong nights I got the system fixed!
I'm gonna try to recap so hopefully it helps other people.
1. Listen to Karl! 100% aptitude towards helping people in a very constrcutive way! Thanks for that.
2. Clone your hard drive.
3. Boot up with your cloned hard drive.
4. Run DiskWarrior and rebuild the volume. I encourage buying it as it is an incredible useful tool that manages to fix all problems!
5. Restart with the original hard disk.
6. Start disk utility and enable journaling
7. Install Lion!
Currently Being ModeratedAug 7, 2012 6:57 AM (in response to Karl Ihrig)
Yes, troca, Karl is very helpful and appreciated!
Congratulations on your recovery.
Karl, so I can either use disk utility or your "recipie" as you call it? I am just trying to understand why you suggested I do this?
Currently Being ModeratedAug 7, 2012 3:42 PM (in response to troca)
Troca, I am glad you finally got it.
To avoid the trouble, I would advise everyone to fix their disk with Disk Utility, fsck, or Disk Warrior before attempting an install of Mountain Lion. Starting with a drive that is repaired will make a smooth Mountain Lion install. Not having it fixed may result in the installer write locking your drive and preventing an easy fix.
Dtigerbme, Here is where to download the recovery assistant. http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1433
The recipes I gave were because you and troca had slightly different situations, and I wanted to try to give solutions that were as specific as I could to your problems. I don't understand your question or your situation. Yes, use Disk Utility to (Verify Drive) , (Repair Drive) before installing Mountain Lion. Do this periodically to your backup drives and all drives to maintain them.
Currently Being ModeratedAug 10, 2012 7:02 AM (in response to troca)
>> I was able to boot up my Lion volume again by starting in safe mode and then manually selecting it as startup disk in preferences.>>
My harddisk was OK until I tried to install Mountain Lion, with the results experienced by others here.
But, I can't start in safe mode; the screen blanks and the computer shuts down around 1/8 of the way in as judged by the progress bar.
Does this signify death?-(
Currently Being ModeratedAug 10, 2012 8:57 AM (in response to Tony Pay)
Tony, I don't think so. Start in Single User mode. Hold Command + S keys down during and after power on. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1492?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US
At the prompt type "fsck -fy" and return. What is the result? Type "ls -l /Users/yourname". Are your files there?
If the intaller has write-locked the disk, you probably can't do a full boot like I couldn't. I found that removing my drive, putting it in an external enclosure, and connecting it to a different computer revealed I could read it. I backed it up. Back up your drive immediately.
I formatted my write-locked drive, cloned Snow Leopard from my working computer to it. Fixed the disk with "fsck -fy" and Disk Utility. Then installed Lion, then restored my backed up account.
If you can fix the disk and possibly reverse the write-lock with an untested suggestion I gave early on in the thread, you might be able to save yourself a LOT of trouble.
It sure would be nice if Apple would tell us how to reverse the write-lock that the installer puts on the drive.
Currently Being ModeratedAug 10, 2012 9:46 AM (in response to Karl Ihrig)
Thanks! I'll try that when I get home.
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