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  • 1,665. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    JMike50 Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    >>IMHO this discussion about LG AH-ISP panels being inferior to Samsung PLS (variant of ISP) offers little proof that the problem is widespread, yes obviously there are some bad panels out there.<<

     

    Agreed!

     

    Obviously, there are some bad panels out there. Obviously, there are some bad keyboards out there. And whatever else you can find wrong with your "baby".

     

    But, I dunno...I do wonder and I think this thread is starting to stink.

     

    That statement is not meant to mean that there are not people whom have legitimate concerns or grievances with their purchase. There will always be problems in any new design for early adopters.

     

    However, my LG screen has been in use for 51 days and I have not seen one....single....problem. Not one! No IR, despite repeated tests. I have an LG panel, build 1054 in week 23 (June).

     

    The screen is stunning. Beautiful to look at. I couldn't ask for a better display or a better computer.

     

    And please note, this is my first Mac. I am a former PC guy. I have built my last 3 desktops and have had new laptops every other year for the last two decades. I wonder how many of the respondents to this discussion have even been on this earth for the last two decades?

     

    I can honestly say that this is the finest laptop I have ever owned. Apple delivered and if they didn't, as a former "PC guy", I would be the first to bust their chops and all the Apple fanboys on this website.

     

    Sorry if I have offended anyone but my experience is different and "your mileage may vary".

     

    Good luck to all in solving your problems.

     

    Mike

     


  • 1,666. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    jeffreydi Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Just picked up my replacement 2.4/16/256 rMBP from the Apple Store today. My original one had terrible burn in-looked like a broken monitor after leaving an image on it for 5 minutes.

     

    Had called Applecare, they said they would only repair it, as it was 37 days old. I took it to the local Apple Genius Bar, and they were very nice and ordered the replacement.

     

    Unfortunately, the replacement I got today is an LG screen (week 35). Leaving an image on the screen for 20 minutes, I can see trace retention.. Much better than before, but from what I'm reading, this problem is progressive.

     

    I bought a $2500 computer , and it's inferior to the Samsung display other rMBPs have. It's defective. I'm angry I sold my old matte MBP on ebay for $1000  - this was a superior computer with superior battery life.

     

    Any suggestions what to do now? Am I now within a new 14-day window to return this item for a refund? Or is my original purchase day (now 45 days) applied?

     

    I'm definitely not selling my iPhone 4S to jump for an iPhone 5 -- seems Apple's standards really have taken a turn for the worse. I've bought the latest Apple items for 20 years now - and will be reconisdering that strategy. I seem to think Apple's legal issues with Samsung are clouding their better judgment - putting the best parts in their computer.

     

    I did buy this with a credit card with a 60 day return protection plan. I might file to return it through the CC company. $2500 for a 'premium' machine , after selling my perfect MBP for $1000 on ebay, it bites.

  • 1,667. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    my-username-was-taken Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Look, this is the best laptop I've ever owned as well EXCEPT the IR...and that's what really stinks dude =) Sorry, but I can't tell you how disappointing it is to lay out that kinda money for something with a huge flaw. It takes a matter of seconds and I can see the outlines and details of the Chrome web browser in my dark gray programming IDE background when I flip back to write some code. Uh...That's super annoying ha.

  • 1,668. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    jeffreydi Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I have the same week, unit #320 for the week. Leave your image on for about 30 minutes, then look very carefully. I think you'll see a trace.

  • 1,669. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    rrahimi Level 3 Level 3 (615 points)

    I've got a novel idea:

     

    How about people who do not have Image Retention and think it's not a real issue NOT COMMENT ON THIS THREAD ABOUT THEM NOT HAVING A PROBLEM.

     

    Why there are two or three repeat offenders going to every thread and telling people their issues are imaginary baffles me.

     

    This way, thread is kept clean and shorter too. These forums are for users with problems and other users who have a potential solution to those problems. If you don't fit in either group then there's no reason to comment.

  • 1,670. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    hocheung20 Level 1 Level 1 (45 points)

    johns1 wrote:

     

    AppleCare covers you for 3 years. 

    So you're suggesting I buy an extended warranty/insurance to cover a known faulty product? How nice of me to pay for the privelege of having a defective product.

     

    As a general rule of thumb, I don't ever buy extended warranty coverage because A) Manufacturers always find some ******** reason to invalidate the claim, and B) statistically speaking, if I put the extended warranty into a bank account, I end up doing better.

     

     

    johns1 wrote:

     

    The bit about what flaws will appear after a great deal of time is fluff, problems usually appear fairly soon in a products life.

    Have any evidence to back up your claim?

     

     

    johns1 wrote:

     

    It not like one's computer screen exhibits problems a lot.  I seen hundreds of LCD panels and displays, very unusual to run into noticable IR.  Beleive or not I even seen permanent persistant where the image no longer disappears on a LCD display, quite rare, but happens sometimes.

     

    Would you agree that IR is not a "normal display characteristic"? If so, why shouldn't Apple replace it?

     

     

    johns1 wrote:


    The macrumors thread The Ultimate rMBP Image Retention Test which includes a poll represents 154 votes only, hardly enough inputs to statically project a accurate representation of the true number of panels with issues.   If Apple ships thousands of MBPr's and all we see is that, drop in the bucket.

     

    It's the ratios which are important, not the actual numbers. With 154 votes and supposedly 10k rMBP manufactured, it is statistically unlikely that the sampled ratio diverges signficantly from the true ratio. The US Census does with a smaller ratio and comes up  meaningful numbers.

     

    johns1 wrote:

    If someone would count the number of people that actually posted in this thread that had a IR issue that they would like Apple to correct or has been since repaired/swapped out, your probably looking at something between 100 to 200 legit failures that I would certainly hope Apple went out of its way to correct without the customer having to argue his/her position.

     

    And that appears not to be the case. Many users are being refused repairs because somebody at Apple claims "This is a normal display characteristic", or "Wait for a firmware fix". I myself spent 3 hours in a store, and 6 hours on the phone with Applecare after my 1st panel replacement to convince somebody that I need a panel replacement.

     

     

    johns1 wrote:


    BTW don't spin that 2k to 4k bit, as Mac's have always been expensive and todays Mac's are way cheaper then they use to be.  I agree no one that spends a good chunk of change should encounter problems, but stuff happens. 


    It's the ratio of pricing  that matters, not the absolute cost. When I buy an Apple laptop, I pay the premium for the hardware compared to an equivalent plasticy Dell. In that respect, the ratios have not changed much in price.

  • 1,671. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    johns1 Level 1 Level 1 (45 points)

    I've got a novel idea:

     

    How about people who do not have Image Retention and think it's not a real issue NOT COMMENT ON THIS THREAD ABOUT THEM NOT HAVING A PROBLEM.

     

    Why there are two or three repeat offenders going to every thread and telling people their issues are imaginary baffles me.

     

    This way, thread is kept clean and shorter too. These forums are for users with problems and other users who have a potential solution to those problems. If you don't fit in either group then there's no reason to comment.

    The problem here is you have people saying every LG panel is bad, and other people saying they are not.  Until someone locks this thread it won't stop.  

  • 1,672. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    seank92 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    In general, the LG panels are the problem.

  • 1,673. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    High-Death Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    hocheung20,

     

     

    Please do not evoke my name in vain!

     

     

    Now about your comment, I am always amazed to find people suggesting others to read a document which they actually couldn't possibly had read, otherwise they would not have posted anything at all.

     

     

    In the document there is a picture clearly showing 2 transistors PER PIXEL, there are even 3 subpixels arranged BETWEEN THE 2 SUBPIXELS! But anybody with a minimum notion about this would have already guessed at this point it is impractical to have 2 transistors per subpixel even more when we consider we are talking about a 5 million pixels 15' display! But lets quote Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCD#In-plane_switching_.28IPS.29):

     

     

    "In-plane switching is an LCD technology that aligns the liquid crystals in a plane parallel to the glass substrates. In this method, the electrical field is applied through opposite electrodes on the same glass substrate, so that the liquid crystals can be reoriented (switched) in the same plane. This requires TWO TRANSISTORS FOR EACH PIXEL instead of the SINGLE transistor needed for a standard thin-film transistor (TFT) display."

     

     

    Now, what else have you said… hunnn, you said the LED is formed by a blue phosphor and a white phosphor…. WRONG! It is formed by a BLUE BULB (LED) and a yellow phosphor inside it! I have even specified which yellow phosphor is used.

     

     

    Something else from Wikipedia:

     

     

    "Instead, these panels display interpolated 24-bit color using a dithering method that combines adjacent pixels to simulate the desired shade. They can also use a form of temporal dithering called Frame Rate Control (FRC), which cycles between different shades with each new frame to simulate an intermediate shade. Such 18 bit panels with dithering are sometimes advertised as having "16.2 million colors"."

     

     

     

     

    I also have a novel idea, why not write "Samsung Sponsored Thread" in the title?

     

    BTW, johns1 seems to be one of the few sane around here, and I mean it.

     

    Now let me go...

  • 1,674. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    JustSayNo Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    johns1 wrote:

     

    The problem here is you have people saying every LG panel is bad, and other people saying they are not.  Until someone locks this thread it won't stop.  

     

    The real problem is that all of the bad screens (with IR) are LG screens. Does that mean that all LG screens are bad? Not necessarily, but the fact that some people are saying the have good LG screens isn't conclusive proof that there are some good LG screens because many of the people that initiall said they had a good LG screen later said the screen started to show IR problems over a period of time (a few days or 2-3 weeks).

     

    Do I think all LG screens are bad? Possibly not, but based on everything I've read, I'd feel 100% confident of having a good screen if I had a Samsung screen. But if I had an LG screen, I'd be thinking that even if it doesn't have a problem now, it might have one in the future.

     

    Unfortunately, since Apple hasn't made any statement on the matter other than "all screens show IR", there are no assurances that Apple will replace/fix a screen that shows IR issues (or other shortcomings when compared to a Samsung screen).

     

    Personally, I've sent two rMBPs back to Apple and am now just waiting to see what happens before placing another order. I don't want to play the lottery because it's a waste of my time and Apple's money, and I figure Apple will eventually get this mess sorted out.

     

    It's just a **** shame when there are such obvious differences in the quality of what you get based on the manufacturer of the underlying components. Apple really shouldn't accept this kind of junk from LG and  should make LG pay to replace all problemmatic screens with ones comparable to what Samsung is producing.

  • 1,675. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    hocheung20 Level 1 Level 1 (45 points)

    High-Death wrote:

     

    In the document there is a picture clearly showing 2 transistors PER PIXEL, there are even 3 subpixels arranged BETWEEN THE 2 SUBPIXELS! But anybody with a minimum notion about this would have already guessed at this point it is impractical to have 2 transistors per subpixel even more when we consider we are talking about a 5 million pixels 15' display! But lets quote Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCD#In-plane_switching_.28IPS.29):

     

    It is easy to put 10 million transistors onto the surface of your typical 15" LCD. Intel currently shoves 1.4 BILLION transistors into 160mm^2, about the surface area of a penny. The problem is allowing enough light through. The wikipedia link you quoted is for black and white displays only. The color displays are nothing but B&W displays with color filters. But thank you, please try again.

     

     


    Now, what else have you said… hunnn, you said the LED is formed by a blue phosphor and a white phosphor…. WRONG! It is formed by a BLUE BULB (LED) and a yellow phosphor inside it! I have even specified which yellow phosphor is used.

     

    Are you blind man? This is what I said:

     

    "The LEDs themselves reside along the edges of the panels are actually blue with a yellow phosphor which when mixed together produces white light."

     

     

    Instead, these panels display interpolated 24-bit color using a dithering method that combines adjacent pixels to simulate the desired shade. They can also use a form of temporal dithering called Frame Rate Control (FRC), which cycles between different shades with each new frame to simulate an intermediate shade. Such 18 bit panels with dithering are sometimes advertised as having "16.2 million colors"."

    If you knew anything about LCD terminology it is common for authors to address say "pixel" when they really mean "subpixels". Furthermore you still haven't provided any physical explanation as to how an LCD displays colors if all the pixels can either be "on" or "off".

  • 1,676. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    jiveturkey7876 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I have been trying to catch up on this thread for the past 2-3 hours due to the fact I ordered a rMPB on August 22nd but it isn't coming in until September 2nd (upgraded from 8gb RAM to 16gb). I am seeing that the LG screens are bunk and the Samsung screens work? What is the Unix command for viewing which one you have? If I ordered on August 22nd am I guarentee'd a Samsung scren? And last but not least does the 14 day return policy start when you recieve your notebook or when you place the order? Sorry for all the questions, I spent my entire summer earnings on a laptop for college and am hoping for it not to be defected!

  • 1,677. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    High-Death Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    hocheung20 wrote:

     

    High-Death wrote:

     

    In the document there is a picture clearly showing 2 transistors PER PIXEL, there are even 3 subpixels arranged BETWEEN THE 2 SUBPIXELS! But anybody with a minimum notion about this would have already guessed at this point it is impractical to have 2 transistors per subpixel even more when we consider we are talking about a 5 million pixels 15' display! But lets quote Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCD#In-plane_switching_.28IPS.29):

     

    It is easy to put 10 million transistors onto the surface of your typical 15" LCD. Intel currently shoves 1.4 BILLION transistors into 160mm^2, about the surface area of a penny. The problem is allowing enough light through. The wikipedia link you quoted is for black and white displays only. The color displays are nothing but B&W displays with color filters. But thank you, please try again.

     

    You have to be out of your TINY BATCRAZY MIND to say the link was about B&W LCD panels!!! It is about color lcd panels and the specific text is about COLOR IPS panels. But lets just quote the next paragraph   following the text I have quoted (from the same wikipedia link and article):

     

    Before LG Enhanced IPS was introduced in 2009, the additional transistors resulted in blocking more transmission area, thus requiring a brighter backlight and consuming more power, making this type of display less desirable for notebook computers. This newer, lower power technology can be found in the Apple iMac, Macbook Pro, iPad, and iPhone 4, the Hewlett-Packard EliteBook mobile workstations and the Nokia 701.

    As we can see, these (including APPLE) are all B&W displays... GET REAL!

     

    And when I said impractical the reason seems to be pretty obvious from the text above. LG had to develop a new technology to allow 2 transistors PER PIXEL, you read it now right...

     

    Now, from the document you said you have read, lets see the huge crystal clear image showing 2 TRANSISTORS PER PIXEL:

     

     

    electrodes.png

    How about this image for blindness??? But yeah, the image is wrong, they CRAZILY meant SUBPIXEL eventhough the subpixels are clearly represented in the drawing. And of course, Wikipedia text is confused, it i not you who is confused, it is every single technical text in the face of the EARTH! According to you is the terminology of insanity and error who is very popular among scientists and technical papers...

  • 1,678. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    bjiibj Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Please, hocheung20, I know you are trying to be helpful, but please do not respond to HIgh-Death's comments about LCD technology.  Trying to discuss the issue with this person is a dead end and it wastes alot of thread space.  I wish I had realized this sooner, I am sure that lots of other readers also wish I had realized it sooner, and I hope you can realize it now.  Thank you.

  • 1,679. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    DCNY69 Level 1 Level 1 (20 points)

    No, let them! I love it when geeks go at it like high school girls.

    It beats Honey Boo Boo Child for sure.

     

    (grabs popcorn)

     

    DC