Skip navigation

Wifi Constantly Dropping in Lion

522404 Views 2,266 Replies Latest reply: Mar 28, 2014 2:35 AM by WSR RSS Branched to a new discussion.
  • maurofromparma Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 28, 2012 2:27 AM (in response to gphonei)

    You are right. I was just getting frustrated... I will contact you again when I will be sitting in front of my iMac :-)

  • Augend Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 28, 2012 4:27 AM (in response to maurofromparma)

    Lost chance !

     

    If you have read my previous posts here, you know my problem is solved by changing ISP , but NEVER I have suggested to anyone to do that. I told my story just in hope that some expert can find the main cause.

    As I stated in my previous post, the manager of my previous ISP is a friend of mine. I managed to have a discussion about the case as I was sure the problem ,-whatever is , ISP or Apple - can be addressed during that discussion.

     

    He told me to do some tests ( as testing VPN, Proxifier, setting SSH, traceroute , ISP logging state in new ISP, second key settings of the path , .....) before the discussion.

    But I had a problem: fortunately or unfortunately my problem was solved since several months and I couldn’t check any of them.

     

    I asked here someone with the problem to check VPN but no answer !! asked to test Proxifier , no answer ! go to some public free wifi area , no answer ! calling your ISP , no answer !  . Even asked simplest Terminal commands as ping yahoo.com, .. yet, no answer !  Why should I try helping someone who doesn’t want to be helped?

     

    Finally I got frustrated like you , not from Apple  , but from this uncooperativeness ! and canceled that interview. I think this was one of the biggest chances for finding the main culprit. 

     

    I say openly that I including most others here  are NOT Apple members. we are ordinary people here just to help others in an issue. But everyone here is just seeking for a “Magic Stick” which solves the issue immediately without giving complete information about the subject. There is no Magic here. The only thing is this: “Wifi  not Working”.

     

    Let me know what a doctor does when you go to him and say:  “  Hi doc ! ,I have fever”. Does the doctor immediately start writing prescriptions ? Absolutely not. The doctor starts asking you some questions like: when did your fever start? how long? what did you do? then starts physical examinations and finally prescriptions.

    Th subject “ Wifi not Working” is the same as that fever. You should say your signs and symptoms that someone can help you. Perhaps your case is not my own case.

  • jrpeterson5 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 28, 2012 4:34 AM (in response to Augend)

    Augend wrote:

     

    Lost chance !

     

    If you have read my previous posts here, you know my problem is solved by changing ISP , but NEVER I have suggested to anyone to do that. I told my story just in hope that some expert can find the main cause.

    As I stated in my previous post, the manager of my previous ISP is a friend of mine. I managed to have a discussion about the case as I was sure the problem ,-whatever is , ISP or Apple - can be addressed during that discussion.

     

    He told me to do some tests ( as testing VPN, Proxifier, setting SSH, traceroute , ISP logging state in new ISP, second key settings of the path , .....) before the discussion.

    But I had a problem: fortunately or unfortunately my problem was solved since several months and I couldn’t check any of them.

     

    I asked here someone with the problem to check VPN but no answer !! asked to test Proxifier , no answer ! go to some public free wifi area , no answer ! calling your ISP , no answer !  . Even asked simplest Terminal commands as ping yahoo.com, .. yet, no answer !  Why should I try helping someone who doesn’t want to be helped?

     

    Finally I got frustrated like you , not from Apple  , but from this uncooperativeness ! and canceled that interview. I think this was one of the biggest chances for finding the main culprit. 

     

    I say openly that I including most others here  are NOT Apple members. we are ordinary people here just to help others in an issue. But everyone here is just seeking for a “Magic Stick” which solves the issue immediately without giving complete information about the subject. There is no Magic here. The only thing is this: “Wifi  not Working”.

     

    Let me know what a doctor does when you go to him and say:  “  Hi doc ! ,I have fever”. Does the doctor immediately start writing prescriptions ? Absolutely not. The doctor starts asking you some questions like: when did your fever start? how long? what did you do? then starts physical examinations and finally prescriptions.

    Th subject “ Wifi not Working” is the same as that fever. You should say your signs and symptoms that someone can help you. Perhaps your case is not my own case.

     

    It is a mistake to assume that some of us 'don't want to be helped'.  Like you Augend, I am a doctor working 6 days per week.  To 'resetup' all 15+ scenarios I discribed in my previous post to test a ping is simply NOT realistic right NOW....and CERTAINLY NOT realistic within a 24 hour period of your request.  Those scenarios took the better part of an afternoon....wasted to answer previous questions.  Have some sympathy and understanding.  This thread, as others have stated, has become a waste because of the tone. 

    iMac, Mac OS X (10.6.7)
  • maurofromparma Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 28, 2012 4:40 AM (in response to Augend)

    I appreciate the efforts and courtesy of people like you. I just find difficult to understand why that has to be the only resources available:-) anyway , thank you for your suggestions I will try to apply them and see the results .

  • Augend Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 28, 2012 5:14 AM (in response to maurofromparma)

    Nice to hear that.

    The cause I asked someone  does such stuff was not based on a trial and error basis. Few days ago , my friend (I didn't want to tell my job here but it is exposed now. In fact he is not my close friend, he is one of my patients and I didn't need to put time for that interview, he just comes to my office) emailed me a link to an article to make me familiar with the subject. I had to do some tests for him.

    I just put the conclusion of that article here with this topic:

    TCP Performance problems caused by interaction between Nagle's Algorithm and Delayed ACK

    here is some staff which is extremely scientic. I just go to the conculsion ( This is a copy-paste, not my own research. For respecting the Copyright, I put the main link at the end. This is a free article). The author describes a similar topic as the topic in this thread.

     

    "

    Why didn't Windows suffer this problem?

     

    On Windows the TCP segment size is 1460 bytes. On Mac OS X and other operating systems that add a TCP time-stamp option, the TCP segment size is twelve bytes smaller: 1448 bytes.

    What this means is that on Windows, 100,000 bytes is 68 full-sized 1460-byte packets plus 720 extra bytes. Because 68 is an even number, by pure luck the application avoids the Nagle/Delayed ACK interaction.

    On Mac OS X, 100,000 bytes is 69 full-sized 1448-byte packets, plus 88 bytes extra. Because 69 is an odd number, Mac OS X exposes the application problem.

    A crude way to solve the problem, though still not as efficient as the double-buffering approach, is to make sure the application sends each semantic message using a single large write (either by copying the message data into a contiguous buffer, or by using a scatter/gather-type write operation like sendmsg) and set the TCP_NODELAY socket option, thereby disabling Nagle's algorithm. This avoids this particular problem, though it can still suffer other problems inherent in not using double buffering — like, if the last packet of a response gets lost, there are no packets following it to trigger a fast retransmit.

     

    http://www.stuartcheshire.org/papers/NagleDelayedAck/

     

    Don't be scared !  That's really a jargon ! we don't need to understand that completely , I leave it here for experts. As an abstract, this article compares TCP methods between Windows and Mac which may lead to TCP time out in some network settings. My patient was thinking this issue is more obvious in ISPs with huge packet loss or IP logging or some degree of filtering or not supporting these stuff. But this is just a hypothesis which needs to be tested.

    That's why I asked someone do those experiments. I cannot interperet the results, I just wanted to transfer the data to him for a definite conclusion. 

     

    If anyone is ready to cooperate , I will manage to arrange another appointment.

    Hope that helps !

  • gphonei Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 28, 2012 7:15 AM (in response to Augend)

    Augend wrote:

     

    TCP Performance problems caused by interaction between Nagle's Algorithm and Delayed ACK

    This is a great example of how there are lots of factors, some completely behind the scenes, that affect how "the network" works.

     

    This is why there are lots of things to try and work through, to find the root cause of the problem.

  • gphonei Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 28, 2012 7:32 AM (in response to jrpeterson5)

    jrpeterson5 wrote:

     

    It is a mistake to assume that some of us 'don't want to be helped'.  Like you Augend, I am a doctor working 6 days per week.  To 'resetup' all 15+ scenarios I discribed in my previous post to test a ping is simply NOT realistic right NOW....and CERTAINLY NOT realistic within a 24 hour period of your request.  Those scenarios took the better part of an afternoon....wasted to answer previous questions.  Have some sympathy and understanding.  This thread, as others have stated, has become a waste because of the tone. 

    What is complicating things, is that people come here, and seem to expect that they will experience "tone" in the conversation.  There are lots of cultures here (this is not just US citizens) and there are many who use English as a second language it seems.  So, we are often fighting over things that are not meant to be fighting words, and then culture or past experiences are causing more replies to be heated, trying to defend what has been said.

     

    I am trying to help.  I am being demanding of peoples time and commitment because I know that is what it will take to solve the problem.

     

    Like it or not, this is not a trivial problem to work though.

     

    Like it or not, this forum is not where Apple does customer support.  This is where customers help each other with common experiences, solutions etc.  If all you want/need is Apple support, then you need to have an AppleCare agreement, or be willing to pay them for the service, AND you need to be on the phone with them, or at an Apple store, every day, until it is fixed.

     

    If you don't have money and time like that, then you might be able to get a solution, for free, by taking the time to work through the issues here.

     

    For some people, that might be too much time, and I'm sorry, but that means you'll just have to deal with the issue yourself, and be frustrated, mad (and hateful for some it seems).  If that makes you feel better, go for it, but do it somewhere else.  I find it completely childish and inappropriate for this forum.

     

    People have to eat, work, sleep, bathe and do all kinds of things in their life, and they make time to do that.  Sometimes it is convenient, sometimes its not.

     

    But, you can't expect to get different results then you have gotten to date, by continuing to do the same thing.  Do that is the defintiion of stupid.

     

    I know this can sound harsh.  I am a parent, and I have a parenting mentality.  When I see conversations that involve poor choices, ignorance or stupidity, I'm going to try and give you information or impetus to do better so that you can get great results from your actions.

     

    I'm sorry if that tone frustrates or bothers you.  It's who I am and how I work at this kind of distance.  If I could see you in person, experience your frustration, and see all of your circumstances, I might be able to know what you are capable of.

     

    When people come here asking for help, I ask for those people to value the fact that I am spending time here trying to help.

  • WSR Level 1 Level 1 (30 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 28, 2012 7:43 AM (in response to gphonei)

    gphonei wrote:

     

    I am trying to help.  I am being demanding of peoples time and commitment because I know that is what it will take to solve the problem.

     

    You really need to stop talking now.

  • jrpeterson5 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 28, 2012 7:54 AM (in response to gphonei)

    gphonei wrote:

     

    jrpeterson5 wrote:

     

    It is a mistake to assume that some of us 'don't want to be helped'.  Like you Augend, I am a doctor working 6 days per week.  To 'resetup' all 15+ scenarios I discribed in my previous post to test a ping is simply NOT realistic right NOW....and CERTAINLY NOT realistic within a 24 hour period of your request.  Those scenarios took the better part of an afternoon....wasted to answer previous questions.  Have some sympathy and understanding.  This thread, as others have stated, has become a waste because of the tone. 

    I'm sorry if that tone frustrates or bothers you.  It's who I am and how I work at this kind of distance.  If I could see you in person, experience your frustration, and see all of your circumstances, I might be able to know what you are capable of.

     

    When people come here asking for help, I ask for those people to value the fact that I am spending time here trying to help.

     

    My comments were not meant for you.  They were meant for Augend who stated:  "Even asked simplest Terminal commands as ping yahoo.com, .. yet, no answer".  He asked me to do this exact thing - problems is it was less than 24 hours prior and was also on 15+ different setups invoving 3 routers, 2 ISPs, 2 computers, and 3 operating systems.  If you have the time to do this within 24 hours then more power to you.  I don't.  That's all I was saying.....I think you have been a victim of your own words:  "So, we are often fighting over things that are not meant to be fighting words, and then culture or past experiences are causing more replies to be heated, trying to defend what has been said".

  • gphonei Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 28, 2012 8:27 PM (in response to WSR)

    WSR wrote:

     

    gphonei wrote:

     

    I am trying to help.  I am being demanding of peoples time and commitment because I know that is what it will take to solve the problem.

     

    You really need to stop talking now.

    Which part are you playing WSR?  Are you one affected by this issue, or are you just riding the bus here, looking for chances to jump in and stir the pot?

  • Selinger Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 28, 2012 9:14 PM (in response to gphonei)

    I was originally on this forum hoping for a fix, now it's just fun watching some of these "fixes" unfold.  Apple seems to be content selling iPads & iPhones, while ignoring the base functionality of it's laptops and desktops. 

     

    Like many other users with this issue, all was well with Snow Leopard...then the Lion upgrade and we have a constantly dropping Wi-Fi connection .

    As far as I'm concerned to only acceptable solution is for the folks at Apple to come up with a patch that actually fixes the issue.  If your Operating System (yes I'm talking to you Apple), cannot handle something as simple as maintaining a Wi-Fi connection that's just plain ineptitude. 

     

    I've opened at least 3 support calls with Apple and I continue to get the same results...30 minutes to an hour of "trouble-shooting" and right back to where we started...a dropped Wi-Fi.  My fix = as USB Wi-Fi device.  $15 on Amazon.com

  • Billjacobson Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 28, 2012 9:53 PM (in response to Selinger)

    A USB Wi-Fi device continues to work fine for my iMac...  going on a number of months now. Good to hear that others are finding this to be a solution to this wifi disconnect problem.

  • gphonei Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 29, 2012 7:15 AM (in response to Selinger)

    Selinger wrote:

     

    I was originally on this forum hoping for a fix, now it's just fun watching some of these "fixes" unfold.  Apple seems to be content selling iPads & iPhones, while ignoring the base functionality of it's laptops and desktops. 

     

    Like many other users with this issue, all was well with Snow Leopard...then the Lion upgrade and we have a constantly dropping Wi-Fi connection .

    As far as I'm concerned to only acceptable solution is for the folks at Apple to come up with a patch that actually fixes the issue.  If your Operating System (yes I'm talking to you Apple), cannot handle something as simple as maintaining a Wi-Fi connection that's just plain ineptitude. 

     

    I've opened at least 3 support calls with Apple and I continue to get the same results...30 minutes to an hour of "trouble-shooting" and right back to where we started...a dropped Wi-Fi.  My fix = as USB Wi-Fi device.  $15 on Amazon.com

    Can you provide any details about how your problem manifests?  Do the airport "bars" go grey and stay grey, or do you see a message in your web browser window that says something like "You are not connected to the internet"?

  • Selinger Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 29, 2012 7:32 AM (in response to gphonei)

    My airport bars will go grey and stay grey...however now I just disable my wifi entirely and use my USB device...

  • CT Level 6 Level 6 (14,975 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 29, 2012 7:44 AM (in response to Selinger)

    Can't confirm!

Actions

More Like This

  • Retrieving data ...

Bookmarked By (82)

Legend

  • This solved my question - 10 points
  • This helped me - 5 points
This site contains user submitted content, comments and opinions and is for informational purposes only. Apple disclaims any and all liability for the acts, omissions and conduct of any third parties in connection with or related to your use of the site. All postings and use of the content on this site are subject to the Apple Support Communities Terms of Use.