13 Replies Latest reply: Sep 14, 2012 12:47 PM by Glenn Leblanc
saigonedit Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

My 2009 Macbook Pro Core 2 Duo is running 10.7.4.  It feels sluggish and their other problems which are unsettling. I have a MacPro 8core Nehalem that I'm using for Avid Media Composer.  I did a "ground up" reinstall of selected apps onto a new 10.7.4 OS.  It has  increased the performance and reliability.  I want to do a similar re-install on my Macbook Pro.  Very time consuming and several questions have arisen.  This thread has nothing to do with migrating files or apps between the Macbook Pro and the MacPro.

 

One of the problems with my EXISTING OS is

 

I started out by installing Lion onto an external FW 800 BUILD device.   Its a Lacie portable bus-powered pocket  drive.  I did all upgrades to the OS.  Then I migrated from an OS that only contains Final Cut Pro, and no other documents or apps.  FCP launched fine with my S/N and then from that point I manually installed about 20 apps one by one.

  • 1. Re: Questions About Migration and Multiple User Accounts
    John Galt Level 8 Level 8 (36,365 points)

    So what is your question?

  • 2. Re: Questions About Migration and Multiple User Accounts
    saigonedit Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    My 2009 Macbook Pro Core 2 Duo is running 10.7.4.  It feels sluggish and their other problems which are unsettling. I have a MacPro 8core Nehalem that I'm using for Avid Media Composer.  I did a "ground up" reinstall of selected apps onto a new 10.7.4 OS.  It has increased the performance and reliability.  I want to do a similar type rebuild/re-install on my Macbook Pro.  Its very time consuming and several questions have arisen.  This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with migrating files or apps between my Macbook Pro and my MacPro.

     

    I started out by installing Lion onto an external FW 800 (BUILD) device.   Its a Lacie portable bus-powered pocket drive.  I installed Lion and then I did all upgrades to the OS.  Then I migrated one app from Snow Leopard: from an OS that only contains Final Cut Pro, and no other documents or apps.  FCP launched fine with my S/N and then from that point I manually installed about 20 more apps that I own, one by one.

     

    Here's why I want to go through all this trouble.  Slow performance and some crashing.  ALSO, when I scan using my Canon MP Navigator software, I get a crash screen on exit.  I can OK out of it with no consequence, but it bugs me, no pun intended.  I was told by Canon its a remnant of some previous HP software.  In fact, my Software Update ALWAYS shows HP in the Show Details dialogue even though I haven't used an HP product in 4 years..  I did everything Canon and HP said to do in order to elimnate that remnant--long list of files to eliminate -- no luck.  My friend tried for several hours to help me.  He's a super high paid softare troubleshoter from MIT working for NASA and Fermalab--he couldn't solve the issue.  The point is that my current OSX 10.7.4 was migrated or upgraded from Snow Leopard, Leopard, Tiger, Panther, etc.  Seems very "unsanitary" and the HP bug is one of a half dozen other litte quirks. Time for a rebuild.  The results were stellar on my MacPro as I mentioned.

     

    There's always a bit of a "ramp-up" when I do a rebuild without migrating: sometimes I can't find stuff--software doesn't launch, preferences are missing, settings are unavailable, so on and so forth.  What I plan to do is clone my EXISTING OS to another extenal FW device, and then clone the BUILD bacj onto my Macbook Pro internal drive.  If I have any problems,  I can alwasy start up from the clone of my EXISTING OS.

     

    But I generally don't like running bus-powered FW devices for long periods of time with my Macbook Pro.  I was told it puts a lot of stress on the logic board, and my laptop is getting old.  So what if I actually use Migration Manager to bring my flawed EXISTING OS back onto my laptop as a second User Account?  That way, I can easily switch back and forth between old and new OS by logging out and back in.

     

    Is there a way to create a new User Account from my EXISTING OS with Migration Manager?

     

    Is it possible this will completely defeat the purpose of my meticulous rebuild by intermingling the two User Accounts on the same 2.5" device?

  • 3. Re: Questions About Migration and Multiple User Accounts
    John Galt Level 8 Level 8 (36,365 points)

    OK, thanks. First of all forget about "stress on the logic board" from using an external FireWire device. That is its normal function. Using FireWire even continuously will not accelerate the demise of your MBP; I have ones much older than yours that continue to work no matter how much I abuse them.

     

    I would suggest you erase your external HD and install Lion or whatever OS you want on it. Then, you can do the same as you did with your Mac Pro - install whatever apps you require and evaluate its performance as you add them.

     

    You can use Migration Assistant but you only have the option of migrating entire folders. In other words you can migrate a user account with all its settings, your Applications folder, your music folder etc. You cannot choose individual apps to migrate. If you are concerned about unknown apps slowing things down then you won't want to use Migration Assistant.

     

    No matter what, your Core 2 Duo is not going to perform as well as your Mac Pro, but installing a brand new copy of OS X and rebuilding your system methodically in this manner will eliminate any uncertainty with achieving its optimal performance.

  • 4. Re: Questions About Migration and Multiple User Accounts
    saigonedit Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    But if I do create a second User Account via migration, aren't all those problems isolated within that specific separate account?

     

    I've been told that User Accounts share applications.  So if were to utilize dual Accounts, that would actually represent two separate installs (on separate dates) of the same Application.  This is why I'm confused about the behavior that might occur.

     

    Having two Accounts on the same device has other advantages too.  Last time I changed laptops I had an OLD and NEW running alongside one another in separate User Accounts.  That turned out to be a real lifesaver (especially on a 16 hour airplane flight) for me during the first two months or so.  I could instantly switch back to the old OS, sometimes even making screenshots or copying preferences and laying those right onto the Desktop of the NEW User Account.  After two months I deleted the OLD User Account.  It was just there in a handy way for the transitional period.  I think its a good idea to have the dual accounts.

     

    So this is really a question about the isolation of potential problems between User Accounts.  Can a "dirty" User Account effect the performance of a slick new one, even if its not logged in.

     

    Thanks for your interest John.

  • 5. Re: Questions About Migration and Multiple User Accounts
    John Galt Level 8 Level 8 (36,365 points)

    But if I do create a second User Account via migration, aren't all those problems isolated within that specific separate account?

     

    Yes. One account can have no effect on another. They can all access the Applications folder, which you may elect to migrate separately. I recommend you don't do that unless you really want to copy all the old applications and it sounds as though you want to go about it methodically instead. 

     

    You can certainly migrate individual accounts, and yes that's a good way to isolate potential problems with one or another User account.

     

    User accounts can also have their own Applications that only those accounts may access. It is unusual to find that though. It's more likely the applications you are using have saved different settings (or preferences) for different users. The apps themselves should never be altered - Apple locked that down some time ago, but I cannot be certain all applications are as well behaved as they should be.

     

    On the subject of switching back and forth between OS versions and the accounts that use them, I have found it more valuable to install them on separate boot partitions, or better yet, completely separate drives. You have to reboot to switch OS versions vs. only having to switch among different accounts, but separate partitions eliminate a lot of uncertainty. In the event something gets thoroughly messed up, the entire volume can simply be erased and restored from a backup.

     

    Can a 'dirty' User Account effect the performance of a slick new one, even if its not logged in" - absolutely not. However, you should be aware that an Administrator can install any number of programs that cause the OS to be altered. Such alterations will affect all Users, which is the reason I prefer to boot from a completely separate volume when the integrity of the system is in question.

  • 6. Re: Questions About Migration and Multiple User Accounts
    saigonedit Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    But aren't there two separate Applications Folders?

     

    Just to be clear:

     

    I'm not switching between different versions of the OS--they are identical, including the patches.

     

    One User Account (call it BUILD)  was created from scratch with each application (except FCP) being installed separately over the past month  The other USER account (which I'll call OLD) would be migrated into the second User Account from a Carbon Copy Clone.  One Account is built from scratch, the other is a clone of the one I've been using (I'm on it right now).

     

    So the Application Folder would represent two unique and separate installs of some 3rd Party non-Apple programs.  I installed MS Office six months ago on the OLD OS, and then again last week the BUILD. 

     

    Do the two different User Accounts respect the two different install dates of an Application?

  • 7. Re: Questions About Migration and Multiple User Accounts
    John Galt Level 8 Level 8 (36,365 points)

    But aren't there two separate Applications Folders?

     

    There certainly can be; it's up to the user. If he wants to create his own he certainly can, and I surmise that's what you have. In that case you can have two completely separate installations of third party programs as you described.

     

    That would confuse me, so I don't work that way. I install all my programs in /Applications so they are available to everyone, but if someone else wants to install his or her own programs within his or her own Home folder that's OK.

     

    You might want to be certain each User is launching the application that's in its own ~/Applications folder, and not the root /Applications folder. I don't know any simple way to ensure that's the case.

  • 8. Re: Questions About Migration and Multiple User Accounts
    Glenn Leblanc Level 5 Level 5 (5,940 points)

    I see John has you covered.

    I suggest you follow his advice and not create Applications within the user account. Once you clone the new build back to the computer drive, test to make sure it's working properly. If you want to migrate the user back from the old build, it will have to be a different user name than the one you created on the new build. If it is, then just migrate the user and settings and do not choose to migrate applications.

     

    You will gain no advantage by having seperate copies of Applications. Each user will have access to the Application folder and each can create and have  it's own settings for the applications.

  • 9. Re: Questions About Migration and Multiple User Accounts
    saigonedit Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Great advice, thanks.

     

    I'll clone the new OS back onto my laptop after backing it up (again) to an external device.

     

    I'll have that clone of the OLD o/s and I'll decide what to do with it later:  either keep in on hand for an external startup,  or migrate alongside the new BUILD o/s without bringing across the applications.

     

    Currently, the USER names are different.  How would I go about changing the USER name?  (I probably won't have to, but I would like to understand it more fully)  Would I have to create a new "blank" o/s and migrate the BUILD o/s into it?

     

    As far as migrating,  I'm going to copy MAIL, PICTURES, and DOCUMENTS to the new BUILD o/s.   How about Firefox, Safari, and Keychain?  Do you have similar recommendation for those Applications?

     

    I'm sure you can see that this conversation is taking place in part because there is no way to selectively migrate Applications, Preferences, and Documents with much specific control.

     

    I'm really thankful to you and John for your support. Many thanks Friends.

  • 10. Re: Questions About Migration and Multiple User Accounts
    saigonedit Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Glenn and John,

     

    Hi here's an update.  There have been two problems occurring once I cloned the BUILD o/s back onto my laptop.

     

    1)  When I initiated a CLONE of the BUILD o/s with Carbon Copy Clone (that o/s lives on a Lacie bus-powered firewire device) to the internal hard drive in my Macbook Pro, it gave me a warning:   "The destination volume does not have a Recovery HD partition.  Some operating system features may be restricted while booted from the destination."  Sure enough, when I boot up holding the Option key, I don't see the Recovery HD on the Internal device on my Macbook Pro.  If I connect the FW device and boot up with the Option key:  yes I see that o/s and the Recovery HD.  Does that mean I need to install an o/s and migrate the BUILD o/s onto it?

     

    2)   iPhoto was nowhere to be found on the BUILD o/s.  It it on my OLD o/s, but that version of Lion 10.7.4 was made with an upgrade disk (thumb drive) and not a full re-install like BUILD.  I did take the contents of my PICTURES folder from OLD and copied that into PICTURES on the BUILD o/s. But no app?   I ended up going online and buying the new "superfab" iPhoto for $14.99.  Was that really necessary?

     

    As far as the abovementioned issue about migrating  my OLD o/s as second User Account without Applications:  I'm not going to do that if I don't absolutely have to.  I'm not traveling anywhere soon and I've that OLD o/s standing by another external FW device if I get stuck.

  • 11. Re: Questions About Migration and Multiple User Accounts
    Glenn Leblanc Level 5 Level 5 (5,940 points)

    To migrate a user, that user name can't exist on the current system. If it does, you will have to delete it before migrating. So the one you create on the new build will have to be a different user name from the old one if you want them both on the same drive.

     

    If you reformatted the old drive, then you lost the startup partition. I'm not 100% sure on how to get it back after cloning, so I won't try to advise on it. If you have a TM backup, you should also have a startup partition on it. It can be accessed by holding down the option key at startup and selecting the drive. You can also create a flash startup recovery drive and use it when you need to access a recovery drive.

     

    For iPhoto, you could have copied the old application from the old drive to the new, but there is nothing wrong with buying the latest version either.

  • 12. Re: Questions About Migration and Multiple User Accounts
    saigonedit Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks Glenn,

     

    I was told not to simply copy Applications across--that there are other files it requires for stability in other areas of the O/S.  But I don't know that first hand--I'm just repeating things I don't fully understand.  They got me for $14.99 and now my iPhoto Libraries are compatible with Aperature, which I've been considering getting into.

     

    As for the the Recovery HD, Carbon Copy Cloner has the ability to re-create it in its "Disk Center".  It working now. 

     

    http://help.bombich.com/kb/troubleshooting/will-ccc-clone-the-recovery-hd-partit ion-on-lion?anon_token=49ac3368d761f51823176312dc5e9600e0950de1

     

    For reasons I'd rather not go into,  I have to start over with my install, let's call that BUILD2.  That won't be too hard because I've gathered all the installers and s/n's into one convenient folder.  But the current install that was migrated according to your instructions:  Wow! its runs nice!  So basically you've helped me increase performance and you've also broadened my understanding of the O/S.  Many thanks.  I'll keep you updated.

  • 13. Re: Questions About Migration and Multiple User Accounts
    Glenn Leblanc Level 5 Level 5 (5,940 points)

    Some applications are downloaded and just copied to the application folder. I'm pretty sure iPhoto is one of them. You can verify that by how the new one was installed when you downloaded it. It should have told you to copy it to the application folder.

    Some applications do have an installer and you must use the installer to put it on the computer. So you would have to verify that when install your applications.

     

    Glad to see I've been of help on this and the other post.