14 Replies Latest reply: Sep 16, 2012 10:15 PM by cesarpixel
n_ermosh Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

     My high school just added an iOS development class, and my class is the guinea pig for the ciriculum. We just got new Mac Pros for the class, but the issue is that our admins are afraid of the students using Xcode to "hack into the computers," so right now they are refusing to install Xcode on the new machines. My question is this: Is it possible to development and publish iOS apps without having Xcode at all?

  • 1. Re: iOS development without Xcode?
    K T Level 7 Level 7 (23,700 points)

    No.

  • 2. Re: iOS development without Xcode?
    n_ermosh Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Do you possibly have a link to somewhere where apple has stated this? I'm just curious as to how you know, that way I have some evidence I can take to the admins with me.

  • 3. Re: iOS development without Xcode?
    Michael Superczynski Level 5 Level 5 (7,455 points)

    Just a swag but I bet your admins don't know squat about Macs.

    Why should a student have to prove that Xcode is safe to use?

    Dumb, just dumb (and sad).

  • 4. Re: iOS development without Xcode?
    K T Level 7 Level 7 (23,700 points)

    I can't help you fight your school, sorry.

  • 5. Re: iOS development without Xcode?
    Tod Kuykendall Level 4 Level 4 (2,270 points)

    It sounds like the 'da stoopid' is buring out of control at your school ("Let's s start a developemt class and disallow development tools!") and I doubt this will help but you can try.

     

    Here's Apple's getting started guide:

     

    "When you develop apps, you use the iOS software development kit (SDK) and Xcode, Apple’s integrated development environment (IDE). Xcode provides everything you need to create great apps for iPhone, iPod touch, and iPad. It includes a source editor, a graphical user interface editor, and many other features. Xcode employs a single window, called the workspace window, that presents most of the tools you need to develop apps. Within this window you smoothly transition from writing code, to debugging, to designing your user interface. The iOS SDK extends the Xcode toolset to include the tools, compilers, and frameworks you need specifically for iOS."

     

    https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#referencelibrary/GettingStarted/RoadMap iOS/chapters/GetToolsandInstall.html

     

    You could argue that Xcode is the only place to get the simulator to run sample code on, but this argument is so far down the list of obvious reasons that it boggles the mind.

     

    I think the best question is "If not Xcode then what?" because there is no answer to that.

     

    Good luck,

    =Tod

     

    PS Note that you will need at least one developer account to actually run code on hardware. You can run code in the simulator in Xcode but to test on hardware you need a developer account.

  • 6. Re: iOS development without Xcode?
    cesarpixel Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    From your original post, I assume your high school really wants to have an iOS development class. If this is true, then they not only need to buy the Macs they got, but also install the necessary software for iOS development. And this means Xcode.

     

    Btw, Xcode "isn't necessary" to build iOS apps in the sense that you can build them with the command line rather than with the Xcode gui app, but, however... all command line tools you need for that purpose come with the Xcode distribution, so at the end the conclusion is: no matter how you build your iOS apps, you need to install Xcode.

  • 7. Re: iOS development without Xcode?
    n_ermosh Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks for your help guys, I could very easily convince the teacher, its the admins that need proof.

  • 8. Re: iOS development without Xcode?
    Michael Superczynski Level 5 Level 5 (7,455 points)

    Your admins need to get their heads out of their ****** and get educated about developing on the Mac.

  • 9. Re: iOS development without Xcode?
    n_ermosh Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Agreed. Theirs main worry is kids messing with stuff on the computers. So is it possible to block all features of Xcode except what's needed for ios dev?

  • 10. Re: iOS development without Xcode?
    Michael Superczynski Level 5 Level 5 (7,455 points)

    No.

  • 11. Re: iOS development without Xcode?
    cesarpixel Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    I really don't understand why are they so worried with Xcode. They look like if they never used a UNIX machine. If you use an admin account, you can trash everything you wish, no matter if you install Xcode or not. What gives you the power to trash stuff is the admin account, not Xcode.

     

    Just use Xcode from a normal user account, and the machine and the network are safe. Moreover, they can give different accounts to the "kids" you mention, and to the students following the iOS classes, so from the kids accounts they cannot modify any file or setting of the real students, and vice versa.

     

    Although Apple tends to "forbid" to say OSX is UNIX, it is. Man, this isn't XP!!

  • 12. Re: iOS development without Xcode?
    etresoft Level 7 Level 7 (24,270 points)

    Welcome to the Mac world! If you read news reports and magazine headlines you might think that Apple is the most powerful force in the industry. Actually, Apple is the most hated force in the industry and always has been.

     

    You are in the middle of a political fight that has nothing to do with hacking or Xcode. IT never wanted to have the Macs and is simply refusing to support them. The idea that they are worried about "hacking" is just a lie. I have noticed a recent resurrection of Microsoft's strong-armed education strategies. I expect those Macs will be replaced by PCs pretty soon.

     

    If you want to learn how to develop Mac or iOS software, you will have to do it on your own. IT is alway the enemy.

  • 13. Re: iOS development without Xcode?
    n_ermosh Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Yea, these guys don't know much, and my "teacher" doesn't actually know iOS dev, so it's really to have a free period to learn this myself. I don't know where they get these ideas, everyone who knows how UNIX works knows a non admin account can't do much damage. They became paranoid when we were learning about UNIX and how to install it and use it in my computer engineering class. But tomorrow i will talk to them and see what they say.

  • 14. Re: iOS development without Xcode?
    cesarpixel Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    Just to be more precise: you can't do any damage at all from a non-admin account, no matter if you install Xcode or not, because from a non-admin account you only have write access to your user folder. You cannot access other users folders. Even system preferences are stored on a user-by-user basis, so, really, those kids can't do any harm if they use a proper account. The can't install software either. The only damage they can do is to their accounts (ie: they can set weird user preferences, they can have an untidy desktop, etc, but that will affect them only: other users won't notice it).

     

    Now, yes, one could do system damage from a non-admin account, but for that to happen you first need to gain admin access from you account and, if they're able to do so on such a modern system like Mountain Lion, chances are that they wouldn't use Xcode for breaking the system, as hacking is a matter of terminal work: you don't need the C compiler for that.

     

    If they're afraid of Xcode, I'll suggest them to delete Terminal first, because I don't see how Xcode would be more dangerous than Terminal on a non-admin account.