Skip navigation

Server Management - Is this a Joke? Server Utilities? Hello?

6950 Views 27 Replies Latest reply: Nov 29, 2012 12:35 PM by Christopher Murphy RSS
  • Christopher Murphy Level 2 Level 2 (470 points)

    I don't see apologists. I see realists. I think your expectations are flawed, made very clear with your annecdote about Active Directory changing as much as Apple changes their utilties would translate into disaster.

     

    Wanting more stablity is not unreasonable. Expecting it from Apple is. But Apple has never offered stability in any product. It's always been about change. That isn't an excuse or apology for Apple's behavior, it's an explanation for it.

  • Mac Pioneer Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Oh honey, I know I messed up by forgetting your birthday, but remember, I'm a man.

     

    Apology?

     

    You'd better hope your better half doesn't just think you're being a realist

  • Christopher Murphy Level 2 Level 2 (470 points)
  • Mac Pioneer Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Really? You can't follow sarcasm?

     

    OK, I'll be more straight forward.  You ARE being an apologist for Apple.

     

    Saying you are just being a realist is like telling your spouse you missing her birthday because you are a man, and men just aren't smart enough to remember those things.

     

    That, my friend, is an apology.  Not a good one, but you had better hope she takes it that way.

  • Christopher Murphy Level 2 Level 2 (470 points)

    Right and I suppose pointing out refrigerators have never made coffee, and it's ridiculous to expect it, makes me an apologist for refrigerators that don't make coffee. Or an apologist for the ocean that allows stunning waves to collapse instead of lasting forever.

     

    The expectation of Apple doing what it has never done and is not in their chosen field of interest is not an apology. An apology by definition acknowledges some wrong, and I'm not proposing they've done anything wrong. You seem to be proposing exactly that they've done something wrong, so you're closer to meeting the requirements of apologist than I.

     

    My spouse would be a man. Neither of us would give a flying F about forgetting a birthday. And the idea that forgetting or remembering is about intelligence is stupid. Not sarcasm.

  • Brian Dieckman Level 1 Level 1 (50 points)

    "But then again I guess complaining here was my first mistake - why should Apple care about providing continuity when apologists do all the work for them?"

     

    Yes. Coming here to complain was a big mistake. Complaining in general is a bad idea in a forum designed to give and receive technical assistance.

     

    Apple doesn't care about continuity. Period. Never has, probably never will. That's the reality of the Apple ecosystem and you can choose to see it as a joke if you like. It doesn't change the fact that as an "IT Professional" who administers Apple products, you should know this, plan for it and always do your due diligence before making major upgrades. (Yes, an OS upgrade is major, especially when it's two full versions newer than your servers)

     

    No one here is being an apologist for Apple. You came, asked a question and we gave you answers. Answers to questions are not apoligies for the way things work.

     

    Question: Why are plants usually green?

    Fact: Plants are green because of clorophyl.

     

    I'm not apologizing for plants not being red instead of green. I'm not touting green as the best color for a plant.

     

    If you come here screaming that you're ****** that you don't know why plants aren't red, then attack the people who explain why they're green, then call them aologists, you probably don't understand the word "apologist" or are just here to stir up dust.

  • Mac Pioneer Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    "Right and I suppose pointing out refrigerators have never made coffee, and it's ridiculous to expect it, makes me an apologist for refrigerators that don't make coffee..."

     

    You are right. Refrigerators don't make coffee.  Why would we expect them to make coffee?  However, if all brands of refrigerators but one made coffee, it wouldn't be ridiculous to assume it would make coffee too. Especially if the marketing said 'We do everything all the other refrigerators do, only better".  That is what Apple expects the buying public to believe.  Apple makes better products!  And as a general rule, they do.  However, on this particular product, OS X Server, they do not.  However, they want us to believe they do...

     

    "An apology by definition acknowledges some wrong, and I'm not proposing they've done anything wrong. You seem to be proposing exactly that they've done something wrong, so you're closer to meeting the requirements of apologist than I."

     

    Again, you are correct.  I AM suggesting Apple is doing something wrong.  Marketing a product as a Server OS when it is clearly not is wrong.  I guess I need to become the apologist.  Jason, I apologize on behalf of Apple.  They clearly have no idea how to create a Server OS and you got dupped when you upgraded.  I'm sorry...

     

    "My spouse would be a man. Neither of us would give a flying F about forgetting a birthday. And the idea that forgetting or remembering is about intelligence is stupid. Not sarcasm."

     

    So you are saying men aren't sentimental?  Or was that sarcasm and I just missed it?

  • Christopher Murphy Level 2 Level 2 (470 points)

    if all brands of refrigerators but one made coffee, it wouldn't be ridiculous to assume it would make coffee too

     

    Yes it would. Such a brand being the only one that didn't make coffee, would be known to all. Besides, IT professionals making assumptions? Really now... that's ridiculous.

     

    Especially if the marketing said..

     

    That's the difference between a consumer and IT pro who isn't a manager. A sys admin or engineer will know better. Any technical person who makes decisions based on company (any company) product marketing is engaging in asshatery and should be fired.

     

    they want us to believe they do...

     

    If you fall for it, you deserve what you get. This is in the category of NOT NEWS. Apple has done this forever.

     

    Marketing a product as a Server OS when it is clearly not is wrong.

     

    I think this particular venue makes a discussion on the ethics of business marketing out of scope. If you actually think the product marketing is false advertising and in effect fraud, all the more reason you're better off using other products.

     

    So you are saying men aren't sentimental? Or was that sarcasm and I just missed it?

     

    Neither.

  • Mac Pioneer Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Yes it would. Such a brand being the only one that didn't make coffee, would be known to all.

     

    What?

     

    That's the difference between a consumer and IT pro who isn't a manager. A sys admin or engineer will know better. Any technical person who makes decisions based on company (any company) product marketing is engaging in asshatery and should be fired.

     

    Again, you are correct. IT pros should know better. The problem is Apple markets to the consumer that their server product will allow the consumer to do what a sys admin does, without the sys admin (or the cost of said sys admin).  Buy saying 'Apple does this all the time and you should know by now', you are being an apologist for Apple.  Apple IS doing something wrong in this case.  Just because everyone stretches the truth about their product, that doesn't make it right.

     

    If you fall for it, you deserve what you get.

     

    And I didn't fall for it.  As I mentioned before, I purchased a MacMini with OS X Server and did my due diligence before I implemented.  Apple failed the test.  OS X Server never went to production because it is not production ready.  It never will be.  Now I've just got a nice Mac workstation.

     

    This is in the category of NOT NEWS. Apple has done this forever.

     

    I see, you aren't being an apologist, you are just stating fact... OK, now I get it.  </sarcasm>

     

    I think this particular venue makes a discussion on the ethics of business marketing out of scope. If you actually think the product marketing is false advertising and in effect fraud, all the more reason you're better off using other products.

     

    That is why we just spent upwards of $100,000 buying new Dell Servers running VMWare with MS Server 2008, Exchange Server, SQL Server and 100 Windows terminals.  Almost half of that was for MS licenses.  Money I would happily spend with Apple if they simply had a decent Server Solution.  I wasn't looking to Apple to save money.  I was looking to Apple to avoid MS.  Apple, go ahead and charge me good money for a server OS, just make one worth buying...

     

    >>So you are saying men aren't sentimental? Or was that sarcasm and I just missed it?

     

    Neither.

     

    So, it's just birthdays aren't important to either of you.  I see.

  • Dave Hauss Level 1 Level 1 (75 points)

    I agree.. I am an network admin for a school dsitrict.. We have a 10.6 server and now purchased 60 10.8 iMacs.. Now I can NOT use the server admin tools on them to manage workgroup mamager and furthermore, I am told some features of 10.8 can not even be managed from the 10.6 workgroup manager server.  Why does apple do this? They are basically saying that we need to upgrade the server as well as the workstations DESPITE the fact that we dont have money to invest in the server upgrade being we are a school that has a SCHOOL BUDGET.  I also run Windows 2003 and 2008 servers. they all play nice.. We had Windows Xp and upgraded to Windows 7.  I really didnt have to do much to the servers except make some policy changes/additions and a few other small settings but everyhing played nice..... Not like apple...

  • be3n Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    The Answer:  Command Line interface.  serveradmin works on all OS X Server versions and doesn't care what version of SSH you are running.  The fact that the GUI apps require that you run the same OS version as the server is simply asinine.  Luckily i keep enough virtual machines around to overcome this obstacle as well. 

     

    Frankly all of you who say OS X Server is not ready for prime time probably don't realize that it runs bind, ldapd, and apache, just like every un*x server out there.  Honesly the only thing apple made was the pretty GUI that barely works. 

  • Mac Pioneer Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Frankly all of you who say OS X Server is not ready for prime time probably don't realize that it runs bind, ldapd, and apache, just like every un*x server out there.  Honesly the only thing apple made was the pretty GUI that barely works.

     

    Yes, but the whole point of this thread was how Apple doesn't keep the consistency of the the GUI between OS versions.  Sure, I can use SSH and configure apache by editing httpd.conf.  I actually DO use vi to edit config files 99% of the time.  However, I've been doing Unix sys admin since Xenix and editing text files since CP/M. I think editing a config file is easier than a GUI.  But new admins want tools. Microsoft has great tools.  Tools that remain consistent between versions.  I don't like MS, but they do make a great server OS.  But, to your point, if being 'prime time' is just about having bind, ldapd and apache (or any other service offered on a un*x box) then an Apple OSX Server 'can' be used in production with success.  If you want to configure it by hand (aka edit config files), you can have success.  But if you aren't getting the GUI Apple promises will make it 'easy' to configure, why not just use Linux?  Linux is free and your hardware options are endless - not to mention a lot less expensive than Apple.  Again, I'm a huge Apple fan, but OS X Server IS a joke!

  • Christopher Murphy Level 2 Level 2 (470 points)

    Frankly all of you who say OS X Server is not ready for prime time probably don't realize that it runs bind, ldapd, and apache, just like every un*x server out there.

     

    Every other bsd or linux server out there is way cheaper, and has newer versions of those programs. Apple is letting in particular the GPLv2 programs languish because of their GPL v3 vendetta. OS X brings exactly nothing to the table as a unix-like platform. The whole point of getting it is for Cocoa and the GUI. If you don't need those things, you should use a different platform.

1 2 Previous Next

Actions

More Like This

  • Retrieving data ...

Bookmarked By (0)

Legend

  • This solved my question - 10 points
  • This helped me - 5 points
This site contains user submitted content, comments and opinions and is for informational purposes only. Apple disclaims any and all liability for the acts, omissions and conduct of any third parties in connection with or related to your use of the site. All postings and use of the content on this site are subject to the Apple Support Communities Terms of Use.