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MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?

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  • Canuck1970 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Oct 4, 2012 9:24 AM (in response to Apple0229)

    Apple0229 wrote:

     

    They should have talked to the consumers publicly. If Apple is providing us with such revolutionary products even we as consumers can support them.They shouldn't have been obscure about this.

     

    I agree. We know this equipment is cutting edge, so we're willing to cut you some slack in the near term, but just be straight with us. If you publicly tell us that you're working on it and that you promise to resolve this issue one way or another (firmware/software update or Samsung displays), most of us would be willing to give you the time to do it. However, not telling us what's going on, or worse, telling us it's normal, breeds distrust and is scary to consumers who feel they might never get what they paid for. In short, we're all grownups here, so treat us as such and everything will be fine.

  • Apple0229 Calculating status...
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    Oct 4, 2012 9:45 AM (in response to mittense)

    Plus this is what I personally think about some upset and dissatisfied consumers claiming that its a hardware failure and a software fix wont do it justice.Plasmas are more prone to what is being best described as Image persistance or Image retention.Thats because Plasmas have gaseous content in them and when a static image is left for a long period,as a consequence the gaseous molecules which have immense space between them absorb the nature of this static image thereby showing permanent burn in or retention.Now as far as the apple article goes for Ips exhibiting IR being abosolutely within specifications.They aren't incorrect when they are saying that,but I have an assumption that this article required mentioning of a certain period of time before this issue begins to commence which obviously the kb support article lacks.LGD,Samsung panels are being produced in masses for the 13 inch version of this multimedia mogul and I guess it's an issue with the refresh rate and unbalanced switching between Graphics processor which ha resulted in over heating of the unit,which the LG display can't take thereby we as consumers visualising IR.Ah-Ips are more prone to heat.A firmware update can ventilate the machine inside out ridiculously well and would decrement the over heating issue to quite an extent.This logic of mine even supports some people claiming that blasting air conditioner over clamshell significantly tackles the issue.No hard feelings for anybody out here.I really pray that Apple proves us all wrong by doing something like that.

  • flat earth Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 4, 2012 10:29 AM (in response to mittense)

    I've been with this thread since page 1, but have not contibuted much because I haven't bought a machine yet.  Because of this thread, I have been waiting for Apple to resolve the issue.  It's begining to look like I'll have to wait until the next update of the rMBP.

     

    LCD's can have "burn in" very similar to what plasmas have. "Ghosting" is not actually a proper term for what the rMBP does.  "Ghosting" is where you have a transparent, slightly offset image that mimics whatever you are doing on the screen sort of like an old B&W TV with poor reception.  The IR that the rMBP experiences (and I guess the new iPhone 5) is more pronounced because of the higher pixel density and more heat of the screen.

     

    I don't think this problem will go away with a firmware change.  An interesting note in Wikipedia's discussion of the problem below is the mention that all LCD manufacturers do NOT include image persistance in their warranties.

     

    Image persistence

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

     

     

    Cause

    Liquid crystals have a natural relaxed state. When a voltage is applied they rearrange themselves to block certain light waves. If left with the same voltage for an extended period of time (e.g. displaying a pointer or the Microsoft Windows Taskbar in one place), the liquid crystals can develop a tendency to stay in one position. This ever so slight tendency to stay arranged in one position can throw the requested color off by a slight degree, which causes the image to look like the traditional "burn-in" on phosphor based displays. In fact, the root cause of LCD image persistence is the same as phosphor burn-in, namely, non-uniform usage of the display's pixels.

     

    The cause of this tendency is unclear. It might be due to accumulation of ionic impurities inside the LCD,[1] electric charge building up near the electrodes,[2][3] parasitic capacitance,[4] or "a DC voltage component that occurs unavoidably in some display pixels owing to anisotropy in the dielectric constant of the liquid crystal".[5]

    Usually the image persistence is temporary, but can become permanent. As a result, all major LCD display manufacturers exclude image persistence from their warranties.

    [edit]Prevention/treatment

    Image persistence can usually be reversed by allowing the liquid crystals to return to their relaxed state. In other words, turning off an LCD display for hours or days will relax the crystals and eliminate the image retention. For PC monitors, it is also ideal to rotate desktops, and hide away elements on the screen which normally would be displayed perpetually (like the taskbar in Microsoft Windows or the Dock in Mac OS X). The usage of a screensaver that has a constantly changing image can help as well.

    Another approach to removing LCD image persistence is to first create a solid white image and display the image as a screensaver covering the entire display area for an extended period of time.[1]

  • rrahimi Level 3 Level 3 (615 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 4, 2012 10:42 AM (in response to Apple0229)
    A firmware update can ventilate the machine inside out ridiculously well and would decrement the over heating issue to quite an extent.

     

     

    Heat only pronounces the issue further. After a while you don't need heat and can produce IR with or without it. A firmware fix can not tackle it, at least not in this manner.

     

    Additionally, just blasting the fans is not feasible. A lot of careful calculation is done to balance battery performance and fan speed so Apple could claim 7 hours of battery life. It all goes up in smoke if fan has to cover for display defects.

     

    This is all disregarding the environment outside. If blasting room fans at the display can reduce visibility of IR, a warm room can do the opposite, or sitting outdoors under sunlight. Now the fans have to make up for that too.

     

    If a firmware fix was possible, Apple would have issued one for iPad 2 and 3s and the iMacs with LG displays. Dell would have issued one for one of their own LCD series which coincidentally also sported LGs. This is not an unheard of problem that Apple has to start a new research department and spend months and millions of dollars to come up with a solution.

  • Locoroco Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 4, 2012 11:08 AM (in response to Canuck1970)

    Yes, I was displeased with the officer's reply, to say the least.  May I also add that she seemed rather chirpy when quipping the "it's normal" line.  She might have thought that the problem was solved by "managing" customer's expectations about the quality of Apple Products.  But then again, I might not have been totally fair to recount my encounter without 2-sided validation on Apple's part. Regardless, what I did remember was a deep sense of disappointment and regret on purchasing the rMBP immediately after the phone call.

     

    I think that some management people higher up in the Apple foodchain might have conceived the "it's normal" line, and disseminated this "communication script" to their call centres and service personals to "manage" customers.  Apple might even have thought that the group of customer that purchased the rMBP, in this case early adopters, business users, developers, artists, Tech savvy folks, and people who generally appreciates great products, would be naive enough to accept the "it's normal" excuse.  If this had come from a not-so-recognised brand name selling generic products, I might have shrugged my shoulders and just move on.  But from Apple, this is a new low.

  • JDThree Level 1 Level 1 (55 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 4, 2012 12:37 PM (in response to Locoroco)

    And then there's the other ******** part of this whole process.  They know how long it takes to replace a screen.  I don't understand why the apple locations can't SCHEDULE repairs.  And I understand wiggle room and such, but if they could at LEAST allow us to schedule the day the work would happen.  I.E.  I want to drop it off tonight, for them to work on it tomorrow, and pick it up Saturday.  You'd think that wouldn't be too hard.  Tell me what day you can work on it, and I'll make sure it's there.  I understand if I don't get it there then it's out the window and I'm back to square one, but this "We have no idea, you just have to bring it in and it'll be done when it's done," seems seriously stupid.  I'm the CTO of an IT company, and even MY techs don't operate that way.  I work from 6 AM through about 1 or 2 AM every day, whether at my office, at clients, or while at home.  It will cost my company revenue for me to be without it. 

     

    So I may not even be able to take it in now, because I can't just let them have it and HOPE it'll be done sometime soon...

     

    Completely asinine if you ask me...  We have to SCHEDULE just to have their tech look at it, we make an appointment.  Why can't it be the same for the actual repair. 

     

    Granted, if it's some unknown weird stuff, alright, there's no way to say how LONG it will be - but should at least be able to schedule WHEN they should be able to start working on it.

     

    /end rant

  • joekljk Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 4, 2012 1:42 PM (in response to rrahimi)

    rrahimi wrote:

     

    Not sure. I can't see any way to export a profile in Display Settings.

     

    Profiles are located at /Library/ColorSync/Profiles

     

    If you manually calibrated, your saved profile will be located at /Users/[username]/Library/ColorSync/Profiles

  • Canuck1970 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 4, 2012 1:48 PM (in response to JDThree)

    JDThree wrote:

     

    And then there's the other ******** part of this whole process.  They know how long it takes to replace a screen.  I don't understand why the apple locations can't SCHEDULE repairs.  And I understand wiggle room and such, but if they could at LEAST allow us to schedule the day the work would happen.  I.E.  I want to drop it off tonight, for them to work on it tomorrow, and pick it up Saturday.  You'd think that wouldn't be too hard.  Tell me what day you can work on it, and I'll make sure it's there.  I understand if I don't get it there then it's out the window and I'm back to square one, but this "We have no idea, you just have to bring it in and it'll be done when it's done," seems seriously stupid.  I'm the CTO of an IT company, and even MY techs don't operate that way.  I work from 6 AM through about 1 or 2 AM every day, whether at my office, at clients, or while at home.  It will cost my company revenue for me to be without it. 

     

    So I may not even be able to take it in now, because I can't just let them have it and HOPE it'll be done sometime soon...

     

    Completely asinine if you ask me...  We have to SCHEDULE just to have their tech look at it, we make an appointment.  Why can't it be the same for the actual repair. 

     

    Granted, if it's some unknown weird stuff, alright, there's no way to say how LONG it will be - but should at least be able to schedule WHEN they should be able to start working on it.

     

    /end rant

     

    POSSIBLE SOLUTION:

     

    Instead of going to the Apple Store, call an authorized Apple dealer that is certified to replace Retina displays (not just repair Macs in general). Then, give the repairmen your Apple tech support case number over the phone so they can confirm with Apple that it's been approved for a screen replacement. If you're lucky, like me, they will order the screen and call you when it comes in (mine arrived overnight) so that you can drop it off first thing the following morning or on your lunch hour and pick it up about 4 hours later (that gives them time to replace it and run tests on it). Alternatively, they might want to see it first, so you may have to quickly go in there on your lunch break or after work one day to demonstrate the IR problem and then get them to order the replacement screen.

     

    Anyway, this is how it worked for me and I received a flawless Samsung screen (part # 661-7171).

     

  • Leoul Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 4, 2012 1:50 PM (in response to TomasBla)

    @TomasBla Congradulations to have finally a samsung screen. I am also from Belgium and have IR problem on my rMBP. I bought mine from FNAC. Would you please tell me the Apple Authorised repair center where you went? 

  • joekljk Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 4, 2012 1:51 PM (in response to Canuck1970)

    Canuck1970 wrote:

     

    Locoroco wrote:

     

    The Apple relationship officer I spoke with said verbatim of their techical advisors that IR is "normal" and she even asked me to "manage my expectations". 

     

    Are you f***ing kidding me!?

     

    You should have told her, "I have been managing my expectations. I managed to scrape together enough cash for your ridiculously expensive laptop and I expect it to work as advertised".

    All of their arguments regarding normal operation are nullified by the fact that the Samsung display doesn't have this problem and that customers are not charged more for it. This almost makes me nauseous.

     

    Exactly Canuck. That was the one point I always had over them. If it is "normal" why do you sell the same machine (samsung) without this feature. Thats how I got my refund as well.

     

    To those expecting a firmware fix, I was told this months ago and Apple has yet to say anything officially towards that effect in any regard. They have actually officially said the opposite and this is normal with IPS displays per this KB -- http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5455. If it is a defect and "engineers are working on a fix" why would they state that it is normal behavior of IPS displays??? Sounds like a bunch of BS. I too was fed this line and I hope the SA that told me that suucks on a big fat one. Love my rMBP with Samsung display and this computer now that it does work as advertised. On that note, I am having wifi disconnects and my screen will go black and into sleep mode randomly at times. That I hope CAN be fixed by a software or firmware update.

  • pharmdy Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 4, 2012 2:30 PM (in response to mcbaobao)

    This was my major problem with my experience. 1st computer bought early august, had screen replaced with a samsung screen a month later due to IR issues. Compared original LG screen to a samsung screen in store, and was hopiing to get a screen of that caliber. Received replacement screen and right off the bat it was way yellow. Noticeably. It was way more yellow than the in-store Samsung rMBP that was manufactured in June, which as a perfect white point. Swapped the entire unit out for a unit that was built week 36. Fortunately, that had a Samsung display, so no IR. Unfortunately, it was still yellow (not as yellow as the replacement screen though, which was "pee" yellow). Disappointed, I returned the unit completely and am waiting till Apple can deliver consistent screens or till the next rMBP. Good luck all.

  • rrahimi Level 3 Level 3 (615 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 4, 2012 2:42 PM (in response to joekljk)

    Profiles are located at /Library/ColorSync/Profiles

     

    If you manually calibrated, your saved profile will be located at /Users/[username]/Library/ColorSync/Profiles

     

    Thanks!

  • DomdiDom Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 4, 2012 2:50 PM (in response to joekljk)

     

    On that note, I am having wifi disconnects and my screen will go black and into sleep mode randomly at times. That I hope CAN be fixed by a software or firmware update.

    Oh for crying out loud, I was planning on buying this weekend and if it wasn't a samsung return it, maybe for another and maybe not but yours is the second complaint I've read about disconnects and screens going black.

     

    I think this might be another time that my timing and Apple's will not be in sync as far as a purchase goes. Despite what some people think, there ARE plenty of alternatives if you're not married to Apple.

     

    Frankly, I think Apple might be going through some negative turn right now and I'm not sure I want to be part of it.

     

     

    @Locoroco

     

    That's a typical example of an i***t with more education than brains. I deal with these people all the time. They have education and they have title, they also have the brain of goat outside their education.

     

    Somebody must have expressed to her that "we" need to get customers to "manage their expectations" and the clever person speaking to you said exactly that. Instead, she needed actually get you to manage your expectations. Not having enough brains to have thought through how insulting and insensitive her statement would be to a guy who just managed to give Apple thousands for a defective computer. LOL

     

    Not only that, when you can buy a laptop for as little $300, your "expectations" should be that anything up to around $4500 would be PERFECT. At the very least, as perfect as people's notebooks with samsung panels.

  • TomasBla Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 4, 2012 3:04 PM (in response to Leoul)

    @Leoul

    I went to the Switch Service in Ghent. I think they also repair Macbooks purchased at other stores (check out the FAQ at http://www.switch.be/nl/service.html for more information)


    The address is of the Switch Service center I went too is

    Koophandelsplein 31

    9000 Gent

     

    There are also other Switch Service centers at

    Noorderlaan 79 bus 4

    2030 Antwerpen

     

    Diesterstraat 21

    3500 Hasselt

     

    Good luck!

  • mark13a Calculating status...
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    Oct 4, 2012 4:23 PM (in response to mittense)

    In-plane switching (IPS) technology is used in today's most advanced displays with Retina display. IPS technology enhances the viewing experience by providing full 178-degree viewing angles in all directions without inducing color shift. This makes IPS displays ideal for observing content with multiple people, and provides pristine viewing characteristics for image, print, and video production workflows.On an IPS display, when an image such as a login window is left on screen for a long period of time, you may temporarily see a faint remnant of the image even after a new image replaces it. This is referred to as "persistence," "image retention," or "ghosting." This is normal behavior for an IPS display, and the faint image will disappear over time.

     

    here is the result of one of apple's Authorised Service Provider give to me when i report a ghost image issue.

    is that true? or he just bo@#$ me?  PLZ HELP

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